zoereef I just started a 265 with prodibio. on the package it tells you how to do it. I added 1 biodigest and 2 bioptim then I was dosing polyplab fuel as a carbon source. I had about 50-60lb of live rock in there with little to no light. after a couple weeks I added a regal tang and then I guess it was about 5 weeks I transfered everything over from my 125 and so far so good no casualties. I would not recommend the reef booster for sometime actually. myself and a few others have reported accelerated algea growth from it's use as recommended. I would start slow but thats just me. it seems to be working well this way for me but I am sure there are people jumping in full dose without incident. the package says something like 1 bio digest per 60L I think. doesn't seem to be needed since everything was polyped out pretty normal the next day after my change over and I got the lights installed by about 2-3 in the afternoon.
my house reef (211 g.)
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Chrisrush
New member
Thanks for the interesting read Iwan and Simon. I got through it last night after spending 6 hrs. reading it at work.
I am intersted in prodibio but I've got a couple of quick questions.
I've got a 120 that has been running for 9 months, and I'm starting to get some good growth and color out of my acros, but I'm ready to step it up a bit.
My params are as follows:
120 (4x2x2) with a 58 gallon sump (running @ 40 gallons) with about 120 lbs or rock.
Gen-x 55 running 2 penductors on the return, and a pair of Tunze 6100s.
DIY CA reactor keeping the ca @ 400, alk @ 10 dkh, and mg @ 1200 ppm.
NH3, NO2, NO3, and PO4 all zero per Salifert tests.
I was thinking about trying out prodibio or polyp-labs system, but I don't think that I can dose every day due to travel for work.
Can someone recommend the prodibio components that I would need to buy. I was thinking about getting biodigest, bioptim, reef booster to start and then I would buy the Zeo CV and HCAA after a 4-8 weeks. Does this sound right?
Thanks,
Chris
I am intersted in prodibio but I've got a couple of quick questions.
I've got a 120 that has been running for 9 months, and I'm starting to get some good growth and color out of my acros, but I'm ready to step it up a bit.
My params are as follows:
120 (4x2x2) with a 58 gallon sump (running @ 40 gallons) with about 120 lbs or rock.
Gen-x 55 running 2 penductors on the return, and a pair of Tunze 6100s.
DIY CA reactor keeping the ca @ 400, alk @ 10 dkh, and mg @ 1200 ppm.
NH3, NO2, NO3, and PO4 all zero per Salifert tests.
I was thinking about trying out prodibio or polyp-labs system, but I don't think that I can dose every day due to travel for work.
Can someone recommend the prodibio components that I would need to buy. I was thinking about getting biodigest, bioptim, reef booster to start and then I would buy the Zeo CV and HCAA after a 4-8 weeks. Does this sound right?
Thanks,
Chris
TryTheChi
Member
Hi Zoereef - so you read it from start to finish!! Phew
Iwan really is an inspiration
I just chip in with summaries to help me understand and hope Iwan will correct these if I get it a weebit wrong.
Yes you can start off, and in addition to robs advice would sugest the following:
Get as close as you can to calculating net system volume as later on some of the zeo elements need a bit of precision in dosing levels. Forgive me if you know this, but to calculate net volume from new Calculate all the inside glass measurements etc to get gross. Construct LR structure and measure how many gallons are displaced, then do the same with the DSB.
The first phase is innoculating a fresh tank with bac strains with Bio digest, and as rob said they recommend 1 amp of biodigest per 60 ltrs or 15 usg - you would need approximately 9 vials for the first innoculation if your net volume is 570 ltrs or 140 usg, and add 2 or 3 vials of TPIM - you are probably closer to 3 than 2 according to the instructions. From week 2 you'l need 1 digest and 3 TPIM each fortnight.
As rob says you may wish to leave off with the booster until you have a polip bioload of any significance. On the otherhad, if the LR is full of actual life then booster may be helpful in sustaining it. When you start dosing booster you'l need 1.5 vials each fortnight.
You can also choose whether or not to run zeostart2 once you start feeding the fish. Its not very expensive to use so its up to what you notice. If you see some undesirable algae then daily dosing of this can help. Start 2 contains more than just carbon for bacteria apparently - but we dont know what.
During this start up phase it may be worth considering a PO4 media to take up and phosphates leaching from the LR and dsb. Floridot has had professional tests done that indicate that the bacs have limited value in dealing with inorganic phosphates.
The second phase will be when you start adding sps. By this time (lets say 4 weeks after start up if you ca/mg/dkh/ph are all in line and stable) the tank will still be immature biochemically, but much more able to sustain hardier sps than non innoculated tanks at this point in the time line, you will have an nutrient poor environment. The caveat is the extent of any die off from the LR. If PO4 and NO3 are 0, start stocking with hardy sps and watch them adapt. Dependant on the species and its history you may find some brown out for a while and others lighten up to the edge of bleaching. For those that are heading down the bleaching road, begin the slowly adding AAHC and CV. For those that are browning - wait, and just make sure they are in the right position relative to your lighting.
Over time you can start to add K ballance (if there are indicators of potassium deficiency and depending on which salt brand is used) with PIF. Leave a coupe of weeks between the introduction of each additional product - so you can evaluate its effect. PSG Iron etc can be added as indicators suggest.
Final phase, when all else is stable and sweet, Spur 2 maybe worth considering.
Zeo set out recomended start points for each product, but as Iwan says - he doses on the observation of coral condition which is an aquired skill, so all the more reason to phase products in gradulally. An added complication is that as stock increases, reactions can vary, so observation skills are needed.
Less is more
expect with food where more is more - and the power of the bacs at nutrient limitation shouldnt be underestimated so its hard to kick the parsimonious feeding habbit. I read somewhere that women are often better at this than men being more nutitionally aware.HTH and keep us posted
There more of us using the Iwan hybrid system the more we can help each other out with the zeo tweaking skills.Cheers
Simon
TryTheChi
Member
Hi Chris
6 hours - you must have speed reading skills
I'm sorry but I'v not used Poliplabs so I dont know how its administered, but my guess would be its as effective as prodi being a bacteria based system. I'v seen occastional reports that people are please with its effects.
If your away alot the prodi dosing schedules are compatible with that. My only concern would be countering the effect of nurient limitation with AAHC and CV while you are away. Having said that - Tangblack just uses prodi and he has very fine coloration.
What is your net volume? If its arround 140usg then you'l need 1 vial digest and 3 tpim each fortnight and 1.5 vials booster each week.
AAHC and CV dont appear to have OD risks (excessive AAHC can prodice a brown slime if OD's not not life threatening) so dosing between workin away could see some benefits. I'm in two minds about the value of start2, the other daily dosing product that may be worth considering sooner rather than later - currently I'm using it again to see if it reduces the browing in a couple of my sps colonies.
Cheers
Simon
hey zoe anytime I am no scientist nor do I think I am close I am just trying to learn and use my best judgement and hoping for the best . I started a thread a little late into my progress on my construction but I just figured out how to post photos so of course I wanted to throw alot of info all at once instead of taking my time but that is typical of alot of reef keepers.
I don't want to take away from iwans thread so I won't link to mine from here but you are more than welcome to pm for the link.
I don't want to take away from iwans thread so I won't link to mine from here but you are more than welcome to pm for the link.
Chrisrush
New member
Thanks Simon. For the AAHC and CV products, those need to be dosed daily? My wife watches the reef when I'm not here so if it's not too complicated, she could probably do it.
The net is probably around 140 usg.
If I open a vial of booster, will it be alright for a week b/w uses? Stored in the fridge?
Super reading skills? Maybe, but more like nothing to do at work.
Chris
The net is probably around 140 usg.
If I open a vial of booster, will it be alright for a week b/w uses? Stored in the fridge?
Super reading skills? Maybe, but more like nothing to do at work.
Chris
TryTheChi
Member
Hi Chris
AAHC and Cv come in lil bottles with pipetts so its easy for anyone to dose. When the time comes the start dose on 140g would be 5 drops of each per day preferanble some after lights out and some during the day. I understand Booster will keep in the fridge for a week if the vial is sealed. CV needs storing in the fridge - although it doesnt say that on the bottle.
Cheers
SImon
ZoeReef
New member
Simon,
I found your post in a thread about BioClean. You said that Bioclean is a combination of Digest and Trace(freshwater) / ptim(saltwater), all packaged together in one product.
I've read more than a few times that BioDigest needs the addition of the carbon source found in the ptim product in order to operate in the most effective manner. So then if I am reading my British friend correctly, both of these (Digest and PTIM) are mixed together in this one product called BioClean.
So then would it would seem that adding BioClean would suffice instead of two separate additions? Perhaps the dilutions may vary (instead of 1 per 100L maybe; 1 per 50L).
Anyone tried this yet? I'm about to make my first order and join the happy testers.
Two final thoughts:
is it ptim or tpim?
and...
What is a fortnight?
I found your post in a thread about BioClean. You said that Bioclean is a combination of Digest and Trace(freshwater) / ptim(saltwater), all packaged together in one product.
I've read more than a few times that BioDigest needs the addition of the carbon source found in the ptim product in order to operate in the most effective manner. So then if I am reading my British friend correctly, both of these (Digest and PTIM) are mixed together in this one product called BioClean.
So then would it would seem that adding BioClean would suffice instead of two separate additions? Perhaps the dilutions may vary (instead of 1 per 100L maybe; 1 per 50L).
Anyone tried this yet? I'm about to make my first order and join the happy testers.
Two final thoughts:
is it ptim or tpim?
and...What is a fortnight?
ZoeReef
New member
Simon,
I found your post in a thread about BioClean. You said that Bioclean is a combination of Digest and Trace(freshwater) / ptim(saltwater), all packaged together in one product.
I've read more than a few times that BioDigest needs the addition of the carbon source found in the ptim product in order to operate in the most effective manner. So then if I am reading my British friend correctly, both of these (Digest and PTIM) are mixed together in this one product called BioClean.
So then would it would seem that adding BioClean would suffice instead of two separate additions? Perhaps the dilutions may vary (instead of 1 per 100L maybe; 1 per 50L).
Anyone tried this yet? I'm about to make my first order and join the happy testers.
Two final thoughts:
is it ptim or tpim? and...
What is a fortnight?
I found your post in a thread about BioClean. You said that Bioclean is a combination of Digest and Trace(freshwater) / ptim(saltwater), all packaged together in one product.
I've read more than a few times that BioDigest needs the addition of the carbon source found in the ptim product in order to operate in the most effective manner. So then if I am reading my British friend correctly, both of these (Digest and PTIM) are mixed together in this one product called BioClean.
So then would it would seem that adding BioClean would suffice instead of two separate additions? Perhaps the dilutions may vary (instead of 1 per 100L maybe; 1 per 50L).
Anyone tried this yet? I'm about to make my first order and join the happy testers.
Two final thoughts:
is it ptim or tpim?
and...What is a fortnight?
ZoeReef
New member
Simon,
I found your post in a thread about BioClean. You said that Bioclean is a combination of Digest and Trace(freshwater) / ptim(saltwater), all packaged together in one product.
I've read more than a few times that BioDigest needs the addition of the carbon source found in the ptim product in order to operate in the most effective manner. So then if I am reading my British friend correctly, both of these (Digest and PTIM) are mixed together in this one product called BioClean.
So then it would seem that adding BioClean would suffice instead of two separate additions? Perhaps the dilutions may vary (instead of 1 per 100L maybe; 1 per 50L).
Anyone tried this yet? I'm about to make my first order and join the happy testers.
Two final thoughts:
Is it ptim or tpim? and...
What is a fortnight?
I found your post in a thread about BioClean. You said that Bioclean is a combination of Digest and Trace(freshwater) / ptim(saltwater), all packaged together in one product.
I've read more than a few times that BioDigest needs the addition of the carbon source found in the ptim product in order to operate in the most effective manner. So then if I am reading my British friend correctly, both of these (Digest and PTIM) are mixed together in this one product called BioClean.
So then it would seem that adding BioClean would suffice instead of two separate additions? Perhaps the dilutions may vary (instead of 1 per 100L maybe; 1 per 50L).
Anyone tried this yet? I'm about to make my first order and join the happy testers.
Two final thoughts:
Is it ptim or tpim?
and...What is a fortnight?
TryTheChi
Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7343555#post7343555 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ZoeReef
Simon,
I found your post in a thread about BioClean. You said that Bioclean is a combination of Digest and Trace(freshwater) / ptim(saltwater), all packaged together in one product.
What is a fortnight?
Th e2 vial types are packaged together in 1 box - they are still separate vials so its a packaging feature rather than a product feature
In english english a fortnight is two weeks
