my rice experiment
- Thread starter kkil4life
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We use a lot of things in our tanks that are not controlled for quality in the same way that rice is not controlled. That would include fish food, calcium reactor media, and, sadly, often salt products. I probably wouldn't have the guts to try rice in my tank, but some people seem to have had good results. Personally, I'd stick to the plastics, at least for the time being.
TMZ, this is exactly what I meant by all issues were put to rest.
each issue, no3, po4, heavy metals etc were each debated at length in this thread and in the end we only said that the values of po4, no3 and heavy metals put in by rice were FAR less than the food and other stuff that we put in.
I ABSOLUTELY agree that rice is not perfect, but we've stumbled upon something here which could very well be the next vodka of reefing. I plan on only experimenting to see if rice will be beneficial long term to us reefers. This mean that all concerns should be addressed and dealt with.
I'm very surprised that dave had no3 spike and cyno thats why he thinks rice is bad for the reef. if you see my daily updates, I did say that I got a small no3 spike as well as cyno growth, but within the next 3-4 days it cleared up and no3 was zero and cyno was all gone.
just like vodka, it does act differently to each system. with vodka some never see cyno, other always have cyno with vodka but not with vinegar. Unless randy pops up and says rice is ok, everyone will just say rice is bad.
unfortunately we are all suckers for marketing words as well as words of others and are never prepared to try it out ourselves.
Dave, I'm not trying to say anything bad about you, so please dont misunderstand. I absolutely value ur input and ur experiment results, but I'm just saddened to see that you have turned 180 degrees on rice.
what I would really appreciate is if someone had some sort of QT systems where they could implement rice to see what happens.
the more experiments we have the narrower the unknown becomes to us.
HighlandReefer
Team RC
One thing about the rice that can cause problems since it is high in carbohydrates (starches), is that if these carbohydrates can be released into the water column. There have been quite a few scientific studies that have found if the dissolved organic content of tank water is increased, particularly the carbohydrates, glucose, dextrose, galactose, lactose, arabinose, starch & other unisolated carbon sources, that this leads to unbalances in their associated micro-organisms (including bacteria). These unbalances due to increased starch and sugar levels leads to coral tissue necrosis.
This is one study that reflects these facts and also provides additional studies as reference. Please note that everything should be micromolar, NOT millimolar..
There is a nice chart in this article that shows how high the coral mortality is with increasing sugars and starches. If you notice higher levels of starches is more toxic to coral then higher levels of nitrate, ammonia and phosphate.
Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality
http://phage.sdsu.edu/research/pdf/Kline - DOC and coral death 5-24-06.pdf
From it:
Treatment of corals with phosphorus
or nitrogen sources did not cause significant
mortality in five 30 d experiments
with respect to the seawater controls
(Fig. 1; p > 0.1, Mann-Whitney U-test).
Coral mortality caused by DOC treatments
was on average 5-fold higher
(36.6%), and significantly different
compared to controls (p < 0.001). Individual
treatments that had significantly
greater mortality compared with controls
included 25 mg l–1 lactose (p < 0.001),
25 mg l–1 starch (p < 0.01), 25 mg l–1
galactose (p < 0.05), 12.5 mg l–1 glucose
(p < 0.05) and 25.0 mg l–1 glucose (p <
0.05). Organic carbon treatments
caused pathologies similar to those reported
for band diseases, with a progressive
loss of tissue starting at the colony
margins, as well as rapid sloughing of
coral tissue. Similar mortality patterns
due to DOC loading were also observed
in 4 previous culturing experiments
using a simpler culturing system in
Panama and Puerto Rico (data not
shown). Naturally occurring reef POM
caused significant bleaching of the corals
in both treatments (Fig. 1, p < 0.005).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This has been my major concern all along and it does appear that two hobbyists are having problems with the starches leaching into the water column. If the release of startches and sugars could be controlled then the rice coudl be a good source for increasing bacterial populations, but if starch & carbohydrates can't be controlled then I believe hobbyists will continue to have problems in with their coral.
This is one study that reflects these facts and also provides additional studies as reference. Please note that everything should be micromolar, NOT millimolar..
There is a nice chart in this article that shows how high the coral mortality is with increasing sugars and starches. If you notice higher levels of starches is more toxic to coral then higher levels of nitrate, ammonia and phosphate.
Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality
http://phage.sdsu.edu/research/pdf/Kline - DOC and coral death 5-24-06.pdf
From it:
Treatment of corals with phosphorus
or nitrogen sources did not cause significant
mortality in five 30 d experiments
with respect to the seawater controls
(Fig. 1; p > 0.1, Mann-Whitney U-test).
Coral mortality caused by DOC treatments
was on average 5-fold higher
(36.6%), and significantly different
compared to controls (p < 0.001). Individual
treatments that had significantly
greater mortality compared with controls
included 25 mg l–1 lactose (p < 0.001),
25 mg l–1 starch (p < 0.01), 25 mg l–1
galactose (p < 0.05), 12.5 mg l–1 glucose
(p < 0.05) and 25.0 mg l–1 glucose (p <
0.05). Organic carbon treatments
caused pathologies similar to those reported
for band diseases, with a progressive
loss of tissue starting at the colony
margins, as well as rapid sloughing of
coral tissue. Similar mortality patterns
due to DOC loading were also observed
in 4 previous culturing experiments
using a simpler culturing system in
Panama and Puerto Rico (data not
shown). Naturally occurring reef POM
caused significant bleaching of the corals
in both treatments (Fig. 1, p < 0.005).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This has been my major concern all along and it does appear that two hobbyists are having problems with the starches leaching into the water column. If the release of startches and sugars could be controlled then the rice coudl be a good source for increasing bacterial populations, but if starch & carbohydrates can't be controlled then I believe hobbyists will continue to have problems in with their coral.
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icycoral
I glue animals to rocks
I think it started to go south for me when I added more rice when I refilled the rice reactor. I can't help but wonder bow it would have turned out if I used less instead of more. I agree try it with less rice and do it on a qt tank with more control over water params and less risk to inhabitants.
TMZ, this is exactly what I meant by all issues were put to rest.
each issue, no3, po4, heavy metals etc were each debated at length in this thread and in the end we only said that the values of po4, no3 and heavy metals put in by rice were FAR less than the food and other stuff that we put in.
That's not the way I read the thread. It's there for all to read so there's no point in arguing what was said and wasn't said all over again. I personally would not use it or recommend it. Good luck with it.
each issue, no3, po4, heavy metals etc were each debated at length in this thread and in the end we only said that the values of po4, no3 and heavy metals put in by rice were FAR less than the food and other stuff that we put in.
That's not the way I read the thread. It's there for all to read so there's no point in arguing what was said and wasn't said all over again. I personally would not use it or recommend it. Good luck with it.
lol.....looks like we both interpret thing in different ways.
either way if ur right or if i'm right, hopefully we can put things to a proper test and see what happens.
btw TMZ, fwiw I would probably be going with the bio pellets in the future (if I can get my hands on them), but for its worth I will be continuing this experiment just to see if rice can be a good source for carbon dosing.
also, for what its worth, I think my initial dosage of approx 1 cup for 75g was on the higher side. I think it should be more like 1 cup for approx 150-180g.
either way, I'm changing out my rice today, and putting about only half cup, will add more if required in the dosage of 1/8th cup every week or so.
Fishamatank
New member
Really? we're still talking about rice? It seems pretty conclusive from this thread that rice is detrimental to most tanks.
A couple of guys - graciously sharing their findings I may add- does NOT make anything "pretty conclusive"...
I have appreciated this thread - and want to encourage you guys to continue trying lesser quanities, and different kinds of rice.
Lundberg is an all organic brand of rice from the West coast - and i think they raise many different strains.
I think anyone that has followed this thread - or chimed in- is thankful to you for your willingness to try and learn something new here.
T
I have appreciated this thread - and want to encourage you guys to continue trying lesser quanities, and different kinds of rice.
Lundberg is an all organic brand of rice from the West coast - and i think they raise many different strains.
I think anyone that has followed this thread - or chimed in- is thankful to you for your willingness to try and learn something new here.
T
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hhmmm.....ORGANIC RICE, now thats an interesting idea.
any idea if organic rice is only different in the chemicals thats used to grow them etc, or does it just taste different?....lol
so far I think my particular brand of rice is doing pretty ok, but I will be trying another brand or even organic rice sometime soon just to see what difference it makes.
and teesquare.....thanks for your support
icycoral
I glue animals to rocks
Thank you for the kind words teesquare. It's post like yours that make the time and effort that was put into testing water params and updating the thread with my results worth while.
icycoral
I glue animals to rocks
I would love to but I'm going to need some time prepare. It is official a new addition to my tank brought ich to the party. I know I know it's my own fault for not quarantining. So I have set up a Qt tank and have caught all my fish. I am going to treat them and let my tank sit fallow for 6 weeks or so. After that I will return my fish to my reef and try the rice again, but will do so on the Qt tank. I'm already planning the next expieriment. I would like to use a couple of test fish like damsels for a nutrient source (after the experiment I could donate them back to the lfs). I figure I could get a baseline over the course of a few weeks and then add a reactor with rice and see what happens. I would probably only put a couple softies in the tank just to give an idea of how corals respond. The quarantine tank is pretty much a basic Berlin style system with a bare bottom tank, sump full of LR, a skimmer, and a return pump. I think it would be perfect. I am also considering a synthetic form of added nutrient like coral food or similar instead of fish. Also while I use rice on the Qt tank I plan on trying vodka dosing on my main reef tank. Again these plans will be extremely dependent on work and travel.
did anyone read this??
http://glassbox-design.com/2010/rice-biopellet-nitrate-bacteria-aquarium/
lol.....looks like we've been called "DARING AQUARISTS"....lol
http://glassbox-design.com/2010/rice-biopellet-nitrate-bacteria-aquarium/
lol.....looks like we've been called "DARING AQUARISTS"....lol
radiava
New member
Hi kkil4life Colt is only continued with the experiment, we have to wait.
We only have reefcentral translate the post, nothing more.
Newbiereef He tried twice, and rice was no option to decrease nitrate as it was my primary objective. The very good the rice wash, the clean, and for 8 more days I leave but did not work.
I think the experiment to be done by someone skilled in order not to expose the tank.
Colt is one of the best mexico aquarists expose and hopefully the results.
We only have reefcentral translate the post, nothing more.
Newbiereef He tried twice, and rice was no option to decrease nitrate as it was my primary objective. The very good the rice wash, the clean, and for 8 more days I leave but did not work.
I think the experiment to be done by someone skilled in order not to expose the tank.
Colt is one of the best mexico aquarists expose and hopefully the results.
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