My Tank Thread (Take3) ★Total AUTOMATION★ DIY Doser, Sump, AlgaeScrubber, WaterChnges
- Thread starter Wally.B
- Start date
Wally.B
Active member
Nothing at all. I can do that with minimal risk, so long as I keep up the water changes, and not get busy.
My water reservoir is only good for 15 Gallons, which is good for 1 button Water changes for 3 weeks. (I need a bigger reserve)
I never dosed before, and only started when Alk started dropping.
But the tiny bit of dosing is my safety net since I fear going below 7.0 more than going tiny bit over 8.
I reduced dosing from 10ml to 7.5 since I was trending Alk upward again.
I am paranoid about Alk stability right now, and test 3 times a week till I build up some confidence.
BTW. I over reacted on the Forest Fire. When MH lights came on it's PE woke up.
Losing Green does NOT concern me Much at this point.
Loss of PE would, and it came back. Not as Strong as last week but it is probably adjusting to tiny flow change from yesterday.
The extra Hydro Pump is giving the ForeFire a bit more current and dust at this point. (But it was worth putting pump back).
I watch that ForestFire like a baby daily, and I yesterday it didn't catch my attention.
One positive sign with new GENTLE, but broad Flow, is Policipora was getting tips shearing. Now it's fluffing up, and starting to look like when I bought it.
reefmutt
Active member
Wally, I think you should either stop the auto water change and continue with two part only - and do a small water change every couple weeks - OR stop the two part and ONLY do the auto water changes..
don’t be paranoid about alk- It can drop below 7 without any issues. You don’t have enough demand to have a sudden drop. You don’t need to be doing both of these things, I don’t think.
Continue testing alk but don’t react to it before seeing a trend- so don’t react before at least two tests a day or two apart from each other.
I think between the auto water changes and the two part additions, something is getting wonky..
Simplify..
don’t be paranoid about alk- It can drop below 7 without any issues. You don’t have enough demand to have a sudden drop. You don’t need to be doing both of these things, I don’t think.
Continue testing alk but don’t react to it before seeing a trend- so don’t react before at least two tests a day or two apart from each other.
I think between the auto water changes and the two part additions, something is getting wonky..
Simplify..
Wally.B
Active member
Matt, you are absolutely correct, especially at this FRAG stage.
When I started his whole Auto Water changing I was thinking exactly what you just stated.
That "if I change water frequently", would I ever need to dose till I started having growing colonies.
My thought was Frequent/Small Water changes would be Ideal to keep Trace Elements in check, (and never have to buy test Kits or Additives for things like Strontium, etc).
That theory was proven to be correct since I did have a K testing kit, and K was optimal every time I tested (so my bag of KCL sat un-opened on the shelf)
That is also why I also got off the AF Component 1,2,3 Dosing. Why dose More trace elements, on top of Elements in Salt Water Changes. It could put some trace elements to toxic levels. So I stopped and converted over to ESV A/B (Ed also Recommended this change as a simplification)
And I didn't need to dose, till one point in time. There was a drop in ALK, and it continued. That could have been just Coraline spurt.
I dose to keep Alk stable which at the time was 2.5ml per day.
I needed to increase to 5.0ml per day, 7.5ml, and eventually 10ml.
And recently I had to lower dosing, to avoid Alk going to high. That's not the direction dosing usually goes.
I think my problem was Auto Water changes were in-consistent days and quantities changed (Since not totally automatic implementation)
All related to making water, not The Easy Button Push Some days.
I was too busy to do the push, since I needed to watched the WC happen (trust factor) and had to clean up drain.
So you are correct. Both frequent WC & DOSing are not needed.
-> I like Dosing, since daily and Automatic and consistent.
-> I like Water changes NO more than once every two weeks.
-> I also miss that with Auto Water Changer in SUMP, I don't sweep the DT with a hose (once every while), to get detritus off bottom (as much as I hate doing that).
---> So for now, I'll do a 10% water change (10 Gallons) one every two weeks. Once every month do the manual way for Tank Sweep (Now bare bottom, need it for tidy look).
---> Stop dosing till I need to dose, based on new WC bi-weekly schedule
------> Monitor ALK VERY closely and adjust dosing as needed.
No point doing Trition Water or Fauna test.
Especially after reading this:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/threads/triton-lab-test-versus-fauna-marin-multi-reference.696212/
My Salfert and Hanna kits are good enough.
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Wally.B
Active member
I have also been thinking about two other things if I figure things out and things start to get better.
The first is, my frags are too close together. They are not placed to handle being colonies.
But that is a problem I look forward to if that day ever comes.
But the 2nd thing is "my current method" is not sustainable for the long term (for ALK/CAL stability with Water changes and Dosing together)
I got thinking about this from your thread comments, and others who have large colonies. (What is needed to sustain ALK/CALCIUM at higher consumption levels)
There is no way my Auto Water Alone changes could handle rapid growth.
So I need to learn to handle dosing, and possibly plan for other things like Kalk or Calicum reactor.
The last thing I want is to succeed and get to large colonies (All that work, and happiness) and fail at that point.
So this has been another failed experiment, or what I call "another lesson learned".
At least I solved the Circulation during this short trip.
Onwards, again!!
The first is, my frags are too close together. They are not placed to handle being colonies.
But that is a problem I look forward to if that day ever comes.
But the 2nd thing is "my current method" is not sustainable for the long term (for ALK/CAL stability with Water changes and Dosing together)
I got thinking about this from your thread comments, and others who have large colonies. (What is needed to sustain ALK/CALCIUM at higher consumption levels)
There is no way my Auto Water Alone changes could handle rapid growth.
So I need to learn to handle dosing, and possibly plan for other things like Kalk or Calicum reactor.
The last thing I want is to succeed and get to large colonies (All that work, and happiness) and fail at that point.
So this has been another failed experiment, or what I call "another lesson learned".
At least I solved the Circulation during this short trip.
Onwards, again!!
Big E
Premium Member
This seems like a sound plan.....I would hand dose if you are dosing less than 10mls a day, but do what works best for you. You should be able to find out your daily alk consumtion fairly easily.
Keep this tool handy........this will help to really know what percentage of water you're replenishing and help you plan things in later stages.
https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php
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The gereral rule for frags is 6" apart to plan for growth.............most people don't follow this, and if you don't, be prepared to do plenty of fragging. Look at it like a flower bed around your house. If you plant a lot of bushes, trees, & flowers to make it look good today, in a few years you have a mess on your hands.
As an aside-------You can 2 part dose forever on your system with water changes long term. I've done this for 10 years.
reefmutt
Active member
Agreed- the amount you will be dosing at first will be tiny.
Wait for a trend in test results and then react with small incremental doses.
Once things are growing and consumption is up, then automating makes sense.
But Wally, do not move anything now- even if they are close to each other. Hands out. When you get to the point that Corals are near to each other, that means that they are happy and will more easily tolerate the move.
Moving them now may kill them.
Wally.B
Active member
Tanks Ed, Matt,
I like this plan too. Hands off (3months), Circulation lower, manual dosing, reasonable water changes.
BTW. I found an small factor on Algae Scrubber shutting down.
I removed the eggcrate over my overflow box. That box turned into an Algae Scrubber with the MH lights shining on it.
Good I noticed, since it was full of dense algae (getting close to plug up). Both Macro and hair.
Nice Harvest I cleaned out.
I am going to use that Harvest to prime brand new screens, since the old ones are coralline covered (during the shutdown) and NOW resisting Algae Attachment.
So basically DT is scrubber capable with Water Column contents, it's just that Scrubber moved to Overflow (Better conditions, Coraline cleaned off couple of months ago).
I like this plan too. Hands off (3months), Circulation lower, manual dosing, reasonable water changes.
BTW. I found an small factor on Algae Scrubber shutting down.
I removed the eggcrate over my overflow box. That box turned into an Algae Scrubber with the MH lights shining on it.
Good I noticed, since it was full of dense algae (getting close to plug up). Both Macro and hair.
Nice Harvest I cleaned out.
I am going to use that Harvest to prime brand new screens, since the old ones are coralline covered (during the shutdown) and NOW resisting Algae Attachment.
So basically DT is scrubber capable with Water Column contents, it's just that Scrubber moved to Overflow (Better conditions, Coraline cleaned off couple of months ago).
reefmutt
Active member
Doesn’t really matter.. just an fyi.. algea growing elsewhere shouldn’t be a factor in the shut down of the fuge. Algae will grow fastest where conditions are best and where there are the fewest grazers. Water conditions are the same everywhere, so it clearly likes the lighting better at the overflow - makes sense..
one thing I forgot to mention.. don’t try to alter the new salt mix to match your parameters. As long as it’s within a reasonable range.. if your tank is around 7-7.5, I really don’t think it’s necessary to add anything to salt that mixes to 7 or 8 or 9 even. Just give it a good 24 hours mixing before use. ..
one thing I forgot to mention.. don’t try to alter the new salt mix to match your parameters. As long as it’s within a reasonable range.. if your tank is around 7-7.5, I really don’t think it’s necessary to add anything to salt that mixes to 7 or 8 or 9 even. Just give it a good 24 hours mixing before use. ..
reefmutt
Active member
OLDEST Surviving Acro (Bonsai).
Doesn't look half bad!
Wally.B
Active member
Really!!!! 24hours!!!!
I wait about 2-3 hours. Sometimes less. (IN THE PAST). Now with Auto Changer, it sits for days, but mixing time before Reservoir Fill is few hours.
Basically I would wait till bucket is clear, and no salt on bottom during mixing.
Wally.B
Active member
Oddly enough, you are describing my Kitchen Tank which is basically self running for last year+, and thriving. Minimal maintenance.
Over last 2 years+, due to overgrowing corals I've made about $800 selling off pieces. SPS tank has been a $ drain on frags. But I think I'm close to even between the two tanks on Corals. Possibly a bit ahead thank to KT.
I could say 70% coral are LPS so self feeding (light), but Zoas, Palys, Acans, Richordias, Mushrooms, are not.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keeping my fingers and toes crossed for SPS tank on this next journey.
I really feel a gut feeling "Positive Hope" about the new/last change (Simple WC & Dosing)
Less water changes will help Scrubber take over and that's a more natural/balanced export.
Maybe some day the skimmer can be removed/REDUCED and let ATS take over even more (Some day!!! In far distant future, if ever)
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Wally.B
Active member
Tubinaria Coral (Where to go?) Kitchen or SPS Tank
Matt,
I read on your thread that you are a Tubinaria Lover, so you must be an expert. I've had them before, but never in the Lighting/Flow that I have now.
So far so good, it's looking like it Likes the Bottom of my SPS tank.
Polyps are not yet fully Extended but getting there. At least not receeded.
I understand they need MODERATE lighting, and Strong Flow.
Which Tank would it best be suited for. SPS tank or Kitchen?
I placed it in SPS tank since if I put in Kitchen Tank for QT/Isolation reasons, it can't go back to SPS tank that easily.
I wonder if SPS tank may have too strong Lighting, if I move it off the floor (Can't stay there permanently).
As far a space, SPS tank has the Empty Side so much easier to leave there, and just move up.
Kitchen Tank has the more MODERATE lighting, but flow is pathetic.
Matt,
I read on your thread that you are a Tubinaria Lover, so you must be an expert. I've had them before, but never in the Lighting/Flow that I have now.
So far so good, it's looking like it Likes the Bottom of my SPS tank.
Polyps are not yet fully Extended but getting there. At least not receeded.
I understand they need MODERATE lighting, and Strong Flow.
Which Tank would it best be suited for. SPS tank or Kitchen?
I placed it in SPS tank since if I put in Kitchen Tank for QT/Isolation reasons, it can't go back to SPS tank that easily.
I wonder if SPS tank may have too strong Lighting, if I move it off the floor (Can't stay there permanently).
As far a space, SPS tank has the Empty Side so much easier to leave there, and just move up.
Kitchen Tank has the more MODERATE lighting, but flow is pathetic.
reefmutt
Active member
Hey Wally, yellow turbinaria is an extremely adaptable coral. I think it can handle any type of lighting. Period. May need some acclimation to super intense mh but you don’t really have that.. maybe it’d be shocked by going right up at the top of your sps tank but I’m not even sure.. depends on how low the lighting was where it came from. Like any sps..
I also think that in lower flow, it grows more flat like that but in higher flow, it will start to take on a more irregular shape.
I rarely see better polyp extension than what I’m seeing now on your piece.
Yellow turbinaria rarely gets super fluffy, in my experience.
I’m sure there are exceptions..
I’d bet that it will do better in your sps tank than in your kitchen tank. Assuming you’ve regulated the issues in there.
I have heard that bluer light may turn it more green but real yellow turbinaria stays yellow.
The main problem with turbinaria is that it requires a TON of patience because it’s a pretty slow grower.. it’s one of those Corals that you need to place in a spot that can sort of be forgotten. One day you look at it and realize it has grown..
I also think that in lower flow, it grows more flat like that but in higher flow, it will start to take on a more irregular shape.
I rarely see better polyp extension than what I’m seeing now on your piece.
Yellow turbinaria rarely gets super fluffy, in my experience.
I’m sure there are exceptions..
I’d bet that it will do better in your sps tank than in your kitchen tank. Assuming you’ve regulated the issues in there.
I have heard that bluer light may turn it more green but real yellow turbinaria stays yellow.
The main problem with turbinaria is that it requires a TON of patience because it’s a pretty slow grower.. it’s one of those Corals that you need to place in a spot that can sort of be forgotten. One day you look at it and realize it has grown..
Wally.B
Active member
SPS TANK WATER TESTS (NO Water Change, No Dosing) For Calibration of new Method.
Let's see how ALK/CALC drops as I pause dosing for a bit. (Ie Consumption Rate)
These are pretty good numbers for the time being.
Interesting part is P is hanging in there with No GFO. ATS must be active since N&P are both holding.
Will be testing ALK daily, and if there is movement, I'll plot a graph at the End of the Week.
I assume I won't let ALK drop much below 7.0.
Let's see how ALK/CALC drops as I pause dosing for a bit. (Ie Consumption Rate)
These are pretty good numbers for the time being.
Interesting part is P is hanging in there with No GFO. ATS must be active since N&P are both holding.
Will be testing ALK daily, and if there is movement, I'll plot a graph at the End of the Week.
I assume I won't let ALK drop much below 7.0.
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reefmutt
Active member
SPS TANK WATER TESTS (NO Water Change, No Dosing) For Calibration of new Method.
Let's see how ALK/CALC drops as I pause dosing for a bit. (Ie Consumption Rate)
These are pretty good numbers for the time being.
Perfectly fine numbers but calcium/alk/mag a bit on the high side for my liking. For my personal preference. Still perfectly fine..
Just saying that if they all drop, there is no immediate cause for concern.
Wally.B
Active member
Matt, it's as big as I want it, so not a problem at all.
Spot will handle some growth, but it's the end of the tank so flow will hit it harder as it grows (so that may be ideal).
All I ask is it stays healthy, get's few more polyps, and continue to stay yellow since that is the color I've been hoping to add to my tank.
Thus I won't be worrying about any Yellow SPS (which are a bit harder to keep, color wise).
