Mysterious fish deaths are more common now (Flukes)

I have owned large Angels and Tangs for years now. Have never lost any to a mysterious bacteria, however I am curious about the "Freshwater Dip" process.

Do you actually take the fish and hand dip it in freshwater or actually put it in a tank of freshwater for a few minutes? Does this stress the fish out badly?

I have a 120 gallon tank I use as a quarintine but generally have only treated with coppersafe in the past.

After reading this thread I am concerned about my quarintine process as I have quite a bit invested in my current livestock and don't want to introduce Flukes in the future.
 
Grevious: Personally I treat EVERY single fish I get now for flukes. I too have fish I don't want to loose.

Freshwater Dips

This freshwater dips are effective for a few parasites such as Amyloodinium and turbellarian flatworms. They are generally not effective for Marine "Ich".

The dip should be performed in a bowl or dish, just deep enough for the fish. Distilled, Reverse Osmosis or Reverse Osmosis/Deionised water should be used. It is a good idea to aerate the water for 30 minutes or so to ensure it has sufficient oxygen. Some processed water can be a little low on oxygen. The temperature of the freshwater should be as close as possible to the temperature of the tank water. The pH of the freshwater should be as close as possible to the pH of the tank water. Add a small amount of baking soda (around half a teaspoon) to the water and mix well. This will add some bicarbonate and carbonate to the water which will help with the pH.

Place the fish in the freshwater for around 3 minutes. Make sure the fish does not get too stressed and if it shows signs of extreme stress, remove it immediately. After 3 minutes put the fish back into the tank or into a quarantine tank if you have one.

For fish with Amyloodinium, the freshwater dips will only provide a temporary solution and treatment with Cupramine in a separate treatment tank is recommended. For fish with turbellaria (AKA "Black Ich"), the freshwater dip should be repeated twice at 3 day intervals.
 
LargeAngels - Thanks for the info. I have used coppersafe in the past, is cupramine a better/stronger treatment?
 
Cupramine is (IMO) much better than Coppersafe. Cupramine is a totally different copper treatment and is tolerated by even copper sensitive fish. Effective treatment dose range is 0.2-0.8, but recommended is 0.5. It is also not absorb as quickly by calcerous substances and is not harsh on the biological filter bed.

Only thing to be cautious about is Seachem's copper test kit as they had some batches that were unreliable, including the reference sample they have in the kit. I use the Red Sea Copper test kit, even though it only goes up to 0.4 ppm, without any issues.
 
Thanks for all the info. I plan on adjusting my quaritine process in the future & hope to have continued success.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11318868#post11318868 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Grevious
Thanks for all the info. I plan on adjusting my quaritine process in the future & hope to have continued success.
Click to expand...

I have always used SeaCure an uncheleated copper with sucess. My protocol was to place the fish it qt observe and treat as needed. I have just changed it. I now maintain a 29 g at 1.09 sg(hyposalinity). A 1-2 hour drip acclimation for new fish works with no signs of stress (Some say it's not even necessary to acclimate when moving down in sg.). I treat this tank with one dose of prazi-pro, prophylacticly.I will take a week or at least several days to bring the tank up to system salinity level before moving the fish out after 4 to 6 weeks.If the hypo fails I figure I can always add copper later.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11319884#post11319884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
I have always used SeaCure an uncheleated copper with sucess. My protocol was to place the fish it qt observe and treat as needed. I have just changed it. I now maintain a 29 g at 1.09 sg(hyposalinity). A 1-2 hour drip acclimation for new fish works with no signs of stress (Some say it's not even necessary to acclimate when moving down in sg.). I treat this tank with one dose of prazi-pro, prophylacticly.I will take a week or at least several days to bring the tank up to system salinity level before moving the fish out after 4 to 6 weeks.If the hypo fails I figure I can always add copper later.
Click to expand...

I like your plan. For how many days will you leave the quarantined fish in hypo before beginning to raise the salinity back to a normal level?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11324724#post11324724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eskymick
I like your plan. For how many days will you leave the quarantined fish in hypo before beginning to raise the salinity back to a normal level?
Click to expand...
Four weeks symtom free.
 
This thread is a great example of sharing important info among Reefers....How does one go about nominating a thread for "Thread of the Month"?
 
CtheToy, thanks for posting this thread!

I had exactly what you described, an odd not-quite-ich infestation that eventually killed several fish, even in QT with Cupramine. After carefully reading this thread, I'm 99% certain it was flukes. I've now got PraziPro in the QT, and will be leaving the main tank fishless for 6 weeks.

As for invertebrates, I did dose some PP in my main system this weekend. It has a few Zoas and a couple of shrimp. The corals seem fine after 4 days. I did find a dead cleaner shrimp last night. I can't say if it was the PP or not. I saw a peppermint shrimp last night that seemed fine, and the fire shrimp seemed fine. I'm thinking that the cleaner either got into a RBTA, or the fire shrimp killed it.

Just in case it was the PP, I turned the skimmer back on and put the carbon back in the sump.
 
I'm following this thread closely. I, too, had an "odd, not-quite-ich infestation" in my display. I immediately placed all the fish in a hypo quarantine. After a couple days in hypo, several fish developed round, red sores on their bodies and died within two days. Among those were four Bartlett anthias, a royal gramma, and a bicolor blenny.

At first I blamed the hypo. After reading this thread, I feel they all died from secondary infections caused by flukes.

I had considered flukes, at first, but the red sores thru me off the "scent". I did add ProziPro after the first week in hypo (they are now in week six), and since that time all remaining fish are doing great.
 
I just found what ended up being flukes on my three firefish too. I saw them first on Sunday, small (4-5mm) translucent bumps on the tails and fins. They were still eating up until tuesday, so I didn't think anything was wrong, that maybe they had just scratched themselves getting into a rock cave. Last night when I got home, one of them wasn't moving much, and seemed to be listing to the side a bit. I pulled them out of the tank (not fun!) and did a 2 min FW dip before putting them into QT. Here's a pic of the cup after:


15261312052007-Flukes_Trimmed.jpg



I lost one of them this morning, but the other two were alert and ate a bit. I'm hoping they're still ok when I get home. How long should I leave my display fallow?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11329492#post11329492 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Myrddraal
I just found what ended up being flukes on my three firefish too. I saw them first on Sunday, small (4-5mm) translucent bumps on the tails and fins. They were still eating up until tuesday, so I didn't think anything was wrong, that maybe they had just scratched themselves getting into a rock cave. Last night when I got home, one of them wasn't moving much, and seemed to be listing to the side a bit. I pulled them out of the tank (not fun!) and did a 2 min FW dip before putting them into QT. Here's a pic of the cup after:

I lost one of them this morning, but the other two were alert and ate a bit. I'm hoping they're still ok when I get home. How long should I leave my display fallow?
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing the pic. Thats alot of flukes coming off your firefish. Thats exactly how my flukes looked like. You can leave your main display tank fishless for about a month to break the cycle or you can treat it with Prazipro if you dont have too many corals. Read several posts above to see which corals are sensitive to Prazipro. If you are not going to treat your fish with meds than dip them again in a few days to see if more flukes fall off and again a week later. This way you will kill some of the smaller flukes that were in the egg stage which FW dips won't kill.
 
There were a ridiculous number of them, I didn't get them all in that cup (was dipping in an opaque ice-cream bucket). I have feather dusters, GSP, and xenia in the tank, so it looks like the firefish are going to be in QT for a month. Will a peppermint shrimp or anything else eat flukes in the DT?
 
just an update i added the prazi pro on sunday and i fish acted wierd for about an hour but then calmed down . i left my skimmers off until last night to keep the medicine from being skimmed out . one problem that is going on with my largest grouper ( 20 inch powder blue ) is that he cant seem to swallow food i gave him his normal hand full of shrimp and he sucked it up but keeps spitting it back out and trying to eat it again . i can tell he is struggling to try and swallow it . i am hoping this is a side affect that will go away soon . my trigger seems to have no problems swallowing food so i am just going to cross my fingers
 
well i have 3 skimmers going now and i added a poly filter that is suppose to remove metals and medication . i want to do a water change but i wont be able to until this weekend .
 
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