Nautilus

[Thales]

Beware of 'badfish lists'. Many of the animals on such lists are debated and the lists are often based on emotion. A badfish list is not a fact, but opinion of the creator of the list. IMO, the real problem with the animals on these lists is what I alluded to earlier - the animals are imported/collected en masse and sold to people anyone regardless of knowledge of their specialized care. Collect them for special orders, for people who have the time and facility to keep them, and everyone including the animals long term can win.

'Pretty close to endangered animals' are not always protected, and getting them protected is often difficult.

 

[jfw60]

L8 2 rise

L8 2 rise

No one knows about their populations in the wild as they live so deep, etc. however, yes, their populations are most likely declining. This however cannot be for sure rested on the aquarist industry. People collect them for their shells which can be and are sold as ornaments, they are caught in nets, etc. I never once said anyone can keep a nautilus. I did, however, say that the thread is getting out of hand and no, they don't need thousand gallon tanks and zoos, etc.



What's the problem with encouraging someone dedicated and truly interested in these animals to go for them? There's plenty of other cases in this hobby where people do/ encourage the same type of thing with other animals. And as of yet, no one has bred nautilus successfully, not even zoos. Who's to say that the first person to do it won't be a hobbyist? Again, there's plenty of examples of this out there, and without people in this hobby, I can guarantee you there wouldn't be half the captive bred salt water animals or capabilities to breed these salt water animals out there that there are now. It's illegal to collect leafy sea dragons, and if you haven't been watching the hobby, the market for wild caught sea horses has gone WAY down with the amount of captive breeding of them that's been going on. That's not to say that we can't do more, but we're getting better!

Look, I'm not trying to turn this into a flame thread or anything, just trying to bring the thread down to earth.

It never ceases to amaze me at just how little people understand and appreciate what a precarious state our oceans are in now, so to bring you back to earth what you did not include in the previous commentary was that its not just collection practices for the shell hoarders and the aquarium trade it is the very acidification of the ocean globally that threatens all calciferous organisms coral, clams, snails and yes even the nautilus. I question the language you used in your responses when you stated that fellow hobbyists should "go for it" after all this is isn't dating advice as in "go for it, call the girl"? This sale represents contributing to the demise of an all ready threatened relic of a by gone era. It is unrealistic to speculate that the hobbiest will successfully propagate nautili in the home setting as most individuals whom have propagated less demanding cephalopods over the last several years have had extensive capital dumped with dismal returns. The purpose of this hobby is not just to play Jacque Cousteau in a bowl, it is in fact to carry the message that he conveyed to many of us, that the sea despite it's rugged, infinite exterior is in truth quite fragile.

 

[michael_cb_125]

The aquariumpros article is way off base.

For example, the list states that the Marginalis Butterfly should be left in the ocean period. Hah, these fish do better in captivity that the copperband.

~Michael

 

[michael_cb_125]

Some of the fish they have on the leave alone list are some of the most hardy species for our systems.


Chaetodon burgessi
Chaetodon falcula
Chelmon marginalis
Chaetodon mitratus
Centropyge multicolor
Holocanthus clarionensis
Pomacanthus imperator
Miroabrichthys bicolor
Dendrochirus zebra

This is a source that is either grossly outdated or they have much different definitions of hard to keep than most reefers and myself.

 

[L8 2 RISE]

Ok, really? I just don't understand responses like this. What's the point? So you're super analyzing my post, great job! Are you an English teacher by any chance?

It never ceases to amaze me at just how little people understand and appreciate what a precarious state our oceans are in now, so to bring you back to earth what you did not include in the previous commentary was that its not just collection practices for the shell hoarders and the aquarium trade it is the very acidification of the ocean globally that threatens all calciferous organisms coral, clams, snails and yes even the nautilus.

My point was that just because an animal is desappearing doesn't mean it's due to aquarists, hence the ETC. aka etcetera aka "and other things". Sorry for not spitting out a storry for every little thing that's killing them, but that wasn't the point.

I question the language you used in your responses when you stated that fellow hobbyists should "go for it" after all this is isn't dating advice as in "go for it, call the girl"?

Are you kidding me, does it really matter? Really?

This sale represents contributing to the demise of an all ready threatened relic of a by gone era.

Yes, however see above.

It is unrealistic to speculate that the hobbiest will successfully propagate nautili in the home setting

Why? 50 years ago it was unrealistic to speculate that hobbiests would successfully propagate aptasia (Not that I would know, and possibly an exaggeration, but you get the point).

as most individuals whom have propagated less demanding cephalopods over the last several years have had extensive capital dumped with dismal returns.

This was true a few years ago, however now it really isn't. For cuttlefish, those that are willing to dedicate themselves have very good results. For octopuses, large egged species are now MASS aquacultured with amazing results. We are, however, lacking on the small egged species of octopuses.

The purpose of this hobby is not just to play Jacque Cousteau in a bowl, it is in fact to carry the message that he conveyed to many of us, that the sea despite it's rugged, infinite exterior is in truth quite fragile.

Oh, so now you know the meaning of the hobby and all that it encompasses do you? Thing is, that's a matter of opinion.

 

[Thales]

L8 - I am not aware of anyone currently mass aquaculturing cephs for the hobby, or indeed 'suitable' aquarium cephs at all. Who were you referring to?

 

[jfw60]

L 8 2 rise

L 8 2 rise

Ok, really? I just don't understand responses like this. What's the point? So you're super analyzing my post, great job! Are you an English teacher by any chance?



My point was that just because an animal is desappearing doesn't mean it's due to aquarists, hence the ETC. aka etcetera aka "and other things". Sorry for not spitting out a storry for every little thing that's killing them, but that wasn't the point.



Are you kidding me, does it really matter? Really?



Yes, however see above.



Why? 50 years ago it was unrealistic to speculate that hobbiests would successfully propagate aptasia (Not that I would know, and possibly an exaggeration, but you get the point).



This was true a few years ago, however now it really isn't. For cuttlefish, those that are willing to dedicate themselves have very good results. For octopuses, large egged species are now MASS aquacultured with amazing results. We are, however, lacking on the small egged species of octopuses.




Oh, so now you know the meaning of the hobby and all that it encompasses do you? Thing is, that's a matter of opinion.

To reiterate what you your self said, "50 years ago they said that we would never grow sps in a tank" while they where wrong about that, they were not wrong that the home aqauriest can not keep large sharks and most cold water specimens such as the nautilis which spends much of its existance in the inky cold black of the pacific. Please do not confuse my reply as an assault on your character or your use of the language, instead I meant only to clarify that their are limits to what can be, or should be attempted with this hobby.

 

[Thales]

But home aquarist can and do keep such animals, its just that not every home aquarist can keep them.
Most that try to keep them shortcut the animals specific needs. Keeping Nauts is really not exceedingly hard, and there are home aquarists that have done it 'successfully', but most keep them constantly in warm water, in tanks that aren't deep enough, with inappropriate tankmates and feed them inappropriate foods. There are home aquarists that have had incredibly successful cold water tanks and shark tanks, but most try to keep these animals without the equipment needed to keep them successfully - they try to force them into a more aquarist convenient environment.
Some home setups are incredibly specialized, and as long as the animals are obtained legally and are not endangered, I have no problem with them keeping them. What I have a problem with is so many thinking they should be able to keep whatever they like in whatever systems are convenient, or that they should give certain animals a 'try' on a whim.
The other problem with even animals collected for hobbyists that are dedicated to giving specialized care is that that collection can lead to more collection of those animals. If such a person wants a Naut, it usually means that many Nauts are collected. If we had a collect to order list, rather than a unsutible list, I think the industry would be much better.

 

[davelin315]

Wow, contentious thread...

Back to the topic, they are very boring to keep. I looked at one for about 3 months at a local store when I was in Chicago and really never saw the Nautilus they had there for sale move. It is an incredibly interesting animal, but it doesn't spend a whole lot of time being active in an aquarium. They live about 300 meters down and come to the surface to forage in reefs during the day. As such, they are extremely tolerant of different temperatures, but for how long I'm not sure. I do know that the National Zoo has some and they keep them in a chilled tank but not to the point where it's ice cold like the Giant Pacific Octopus display they have, which is kept at around 50 degrees. Anyway, they are one of those novelty items that surely belong in the wild. Could you keep one? Probably as they've been around for a long time and their primitive nature does not demand a whole lot as far as husbandry is concerned other than a quality tank, but the bottom line is that they do belong in nature rather than in our home aquariums, at least from my perspective.

 

[Sweet13]

Life is too short . . .

 

[L8 2 RISE]

But home aquarist can and do keep such animals, its just that not every home aquarist can keep them.
Most that try to keep them shortcut the animals specific needs. Keeping Nauts is really not exceedingly hard, and there are home aquarists that have done it 'successfully', but most keep them constantly in warm water, in tanks that aren't deep enough, with inappropriate tankmates and feed them inappropriate foods. There are home aquarists that have had incredibly successful cold water tanks and shark tanks, but most try to keep these animals without the equipment needed to keep them successfully - they try to force them into a more aquarist convenient environment.
Some home setups are incredibly specialized, and as long as the animals are obtained legally and are not endangered, I have no problem with them keeping them. What I have a problem with is so many thinking they should be able to keep whatever they like in whatever systems are convenient, or that they should give certain animals a 'try' on a whim.
The other problem with even animals collected for hobbyists that are dedicated to giving specialized care is that that collection can lead to more collection of those animals. If such a person wants a Naut, it usually means that many Nauts are collected. If we had a collect to order list, rather than a unsutible list, I think the industry would be much better.

I'll pass on making a nice long reply and just say +1

L8 - I am not aware of anyone currently mass aquaculturing cephs for the hobby, or indeed 'suitable' aquarium cephs at all. Who were you referring to?

I'm talking about octo's for the food industry. There were a few links that popped up on tonmo a little while back. Hang on a sec and I'll find them.

 

[L8 2 RISE]

Ok, here it is http://www.fis.com/fis/worldnews/wo...&special=&monthyear=&day=&id=34584&ndb=1&df=0. This was the one on tonmo that I could find, but I remember a few more that I think people posted, but no idea what forum they were in. There's also some cases of this breeding in Asia I believe.

 

[Thales]

Gotcha. The word is still out on the O. maya culturing. I haven't be able to find a follow up. But more importantly, no one is culturing cephs for the hobby market. Heck, with the NRCC closing down, no one is culturing cephs for the research/educational market.

 

[Koshmar]

If you have $200.00+, now's your chance....
http://www.stomatopod.com/products.php?cat=41

 

[Gonodactylus]

Recently, there have been several studies tracking tagged Nautilus. (You can find them by googling "Nautilus vertical migration". While migratory patterns were not as consistent as we thought, the animals did not come up to feed above 150 m - and temperatures at that depth and below are certainly well below what most home aquaria operate at. That doesn't mean that these animals cannot be kept in captivity (dozens are brought into the US each year for research on their neural development and behavior), but this is one animal that probably should not be available at your local LFS subject to impulse purchase. This will probably all me moot soon when (not if) they receive CITES protection.

Roy

Wow, contentious thread...

Back to the topic, they are very boring to keep. I looked at one for about 3 months at a local store when I was in Chicago and really never saw the Nautilus they had there for sale move. It is an incredibly interesting animal, but it doesn't spend a whole lot of time being active in an aquarium. They live about 300 meters down and come to the surface to forage in reefs during the day. As such, they are extremely tolerant of different temperatures, but for how long I'm not sure. I do know that the National Zoo has some and they keep them in a chilled tank but not to the point where it's ice cold like the Giant Pacific Octopus display they have, which is kept at around 50 degrees. Anyway, they are one of those novelty items that surely belong in the wild. Could you keep one? Probably as they've been around for a long time and their primitive nature does not demand a whole lot as far as husbandry is concerned other than a quality tank, but the bottom line is that they do belong in nature rather than in our home aquariums, at least from my perspective.

 

[sslak]

i didnt know they were close to being endangered. if a LFS has already bought one, its going to die anyway by torture in there misserable tanks. why not try to save it? i understand by buying it your encouraging the collectors to get more, but where is the line crossed? save an animal now, kill more in the future. kill an animal, save more later on. its a tough choice and i was just stating my opinon. maybe give a word with the LFS saying this is wrong and the only reason im buying it is to try to save it.

Buying this animal will go down on the books of that LFS as a PROFITABLE SALE. Leaving it to die in the tank at the LFS will go down as a LOSS OF PROFIT.

Discourage the LFS from ever buying one of these animals again from it's suppliers by letting it die in the tanks and forcing them to lose money on it!

 

[fvalencia4]

i have one nautilus for more than 2 months now but the tank is designed as a deep water tank the water is cold i use deep blue lights no whites at all and hand feed him every day the water is 70 to 72 and he seem pretty happy he is in a 220 monte rey style with a blue spotted ray , a pineapple fish ,flashlight fish ,mystery wrasse ,mimic octopus , rhomboid wrasse male a Hawaiian flame wrasse , and a feather star fish the newest guy is him and he is been in there for 2 moths a little more and im always watching them and they never fight or any thing all of them i teach them to eat out of my hand and the eat frozen food only one who eats only live food is the pineapple =(

 

[AquariumMan]

i have one nautilus for more than 2 months now but the tank is designed as a deep water tank the water is cold i use deep blue lights no whites at all and hand feed him every day the water is 70 to 72 and he seem pretty happy he is in a 220 monte rey style with a blue spotted ray , a pineapple fish ,flashlight fish ,mystery wrasse ,mimic octopus , rhomboid wrasse male a Hawaiian flame wrasse , and a feather star fish the newest guy is him and he is been in there for 2 moths a little more and im always watching them and they never fight or any thing all of them i teach them to eat out of my hand and the eat frozen food only one who eats only live food is the pineapple =(

That would be interesting to see pictures of.

 

[lil urchin]

An ideal size for these would be a tank that's something like 2*2*4 feet tall. However they can be kept in different size tanks, and even in standard tanks that aren't extra tall, though I wouldn't suggest it. You will need the tank chilled down to a pretty low temperature, and I wouldn't suggest fish or any other tank mates for that matter. Their eyes can only "see" night and day. You should easily be able to get them eating live foods if you meet all of the above requirements, and they should also go onto frozen pretty well. Many people/places that keep nautilus will end up with eggs at some point...
If you are dedicated and do your homework, you can do it...

:thumbsup: thank you, i think this is the best post so far in answering the original question, 'how to keep a nautilus'. i was curious myself, i think they're adorable, but way too much work for me now.

whether or not they should be kept should be a different thread entirely - and i'm not saying that to stop the fighting, it'll be an interesting debate. but it's the 'tragedy of the commons' (any commonly held resource will be exploited) but bickering won't change international law.

 

[SushiGirl]

i have one nautilus for more than 2 months now but the tank is designed as a deep water tank the water is cold i use deep blue lights no whites at all and hand feed him every day the water is 70 to 72 and he seem pretty happy he is in a 220 monte rey style with a blue spotted ray , a pineapple fish ,flashlight fish ,mystery wrasse ,mimic octopus , rhomboid wrasse male a Hawaiian flame wrasse , and a feather star fish the newest guy is him and he is been in there for 2 moths a little more and im always watching them and they never fight or any thing all of them i teach them to eat out of my hand and the eat frozen food only one who eats only live food is the pineapple =(

A mimic octo in an open tank? It wouldn't be there very long.

and i'm not saying that to stop the fighting, it'll be an interesting debate.

The last post to this thread was April 2010 until the above post. Pretty sure the argument was over LOL.