Newbie Corner Feedback Thread
- Thread starter WaterKeeper
- Start date
Paul B
Premium Member
Ludes were a big drug thing in the sixtees like a bunch of other drugs. They were downers and would make you sleepy kind of like alcohol but they were more habit forming.
Unfortunately, drugs and Viet Nam Veterans are used a lot in the same sentence.
I persaonally did not use any drugs in Nam except maybe an aspirin. Drugs were easy to get especially if, like me you had access to a helocopter. I had enough trouble trying to stay alive without taking drugs.
Drugs were also easier to get if you were in a more secure area like Saigon or one of the larger villages.
I was never near a road or hamlet. You diden't land on purpose in some hamlet.
Probably half the kids going to Junior or high school did drugs.
When we were younger sniffing glue was even more popular.
Testors glue was 10 cents and you would see kids walking to school all the time with their face in a glue bag.
When they put stuff in the glue so you couldn't sniff it anymore, some people (real brains) started sniffing Carbona Cleaning fluid.
That will also get you high. I lost two friends from sniffing glue and one to Carbona. Sadly, two of those guys died after they came back from Nam.
One of the guys sniffing Carbona, broke into his neighbors house and stole a TV, then sold it to his other next door neighbor.
Of course the neighbors were friends and they found out. He spent years in a mental institution because his brain was fried.
When he got out he died shortly after.
So the moral is, don't take drugs.
Aquarist007
New member
but dosing with vodka is okay
Ahem, I would like to remind my fellow Nam Vets that we frown on drugs discussions on this board. If you do use drugs do so only in a hospital tank and not in the display.
Aquarist007
New member
Re: this months article---an excellent job as always.
"Do yourself and your new live rock a favor and do at least 25% water changes every day on a cycling tank."
If you are deligent and test for ammonia and nitrates on a daily basis but seen no spikes, is it really necessary to do water changes.
I saw no spikes when my tank initially cycled and was told at the time to not do a water change until the fifth week of the cycle.
It was felt otherwise that it would have just been a waste of salt since nothing was in the tank to consume it. It was futher stated that the buffer system with the argonite substrate was also developing and unnecessary water changes could throw that off.
"Do yourself and your new live rock a favor and do at least 25% water changes every day on a cycling tank."
If you are deligent and test for ammonia and nitrates on a daily basis but seen no spikes, is it really necessary to do water changes.
I saw no spikes when my tank initially cycled and was told at the time to not do a water change until the fifth week of the cycle.
It was felt otherwise that it would have just been a waste of salt since nothing was in the tank to consume it. It was futher stated that the buffer system with the argonite substrate was also developing and unnecessary water changes could throw that off.
Aquarist007
New member
Alaska_Phil
New member
Something I've always wondered. Is it necessary to aclimate new live rock the way we do fish and corals? I'd think intuitively that some of the micro life we're trying to promote would be pretty fragil.
Phil
Phil
reefnetworth
Premium Member
excuse me Paul B!
ive never sniffed glue, paint, or carbona and that is a fact...
i was JKA because of this bogus info post. thought i would have some fun with it to lighten the day of some that actually took this post by Tom serious.
Paul B, i did not in any way or form mean disrespect you or the things WE did back then, WE did what we were told to do for our country to keep its FREEDOM and our rights as AMERICANS, for what??? so it could be destroyed by the youth and ignorance of todays society.
i piloted B-52's, & dropped 500 lbs. X 500 per day on the trail. 16 hour sort's with 4 hrs. of sleep for almost 3 yrs. i didnt have time for drugs...
i have said goodbye to 8 of my friends that have died from Heroin overdoses, not from huffin toxic fume inhalation.
Also, Ludes were stiill around in the 80's, RoRer and Lemon 714's.
Germans imported the RoRer, Lemon 714 were American made. i dont know how to do the reverse R's as were stamped on the German Qualude on my comp. but i do remember them being $2.00 ea. and Lemons @ $3.00 ea.
this is not a drug forum and i truely appologize if i hit a wrong nerve between us, i respet you for your knowledge and courage, let the past go.
lets be helpful to fellow reefers, and let Tom play his game.
im leaving this bogus forum...
Reefnetworth, AKA JDMJR...
ive never sniffed glue, paint, or carbona and that is a fact...
i was JKA because of this bogus info post. thought i would have some fun with it to lighten the day of some that actually took this post by Tom serious.
Paul B, i did not in any way or form mean disrespect you or the things WE did back then, WE did what we were told to do for our country to keep its FREEDOM and our rights as AMERICANS, for what??? so it could be destroyed by the youth and ignorance of todays society.
i piloted B-52's, & dropped 500 lbs. X 500 per day on the trail. 16 hour sort's with 4 hrs. of sleep for almost 3 yrs. i didnt have time for drugs...
i have said goodbye to 8 of my friends that have died from Heroin overdoses, not from huffin toxic fume inhalation.
Also, Ludes were stiill around in the 80's, RoRer and Lemon 714's.
Germans imported the RoRer, Lemon 714 were American made. i dont know how to do the reverse R's as were stamped on the German Qualude on my comp. but i do remember them being $2.00 ea. and Lemons @ $3.00 ea.
this is not a drug forum and i truely appologize if i hit a wrong nerve between us, i respet you for your knowledge and courage, let the past go.
lets be helpful to fellow reefers, and let Tom play his game.
im leaving this bogus forum...
Reefnetworth, AKA JDMJR...
OK folks, lets keep this on topic or I will close it in an instant. This is a drug free thread!!!
Sisterlimonpot
Premium Member
I was about to ask why the sticky was removed but now I see.
Aquarist007
New member
I tried and so did the next poster----but you seemed to have missed my question--and it was one based on your article--the original reason I believe for this thread
darn----I thought it was a good question too
Paul B
Premium Member
I don't know what you guys are talking about. I am here just to help Noobs learn all they can about UGFs, I mean help them learn all they can so they can advance out of the Noob forum.
I would never ever mention anything else besides good fish keeping, I wish you guys would stop talking about "other " things.
I would never ever mention anything else besides good fish keeping, I wish you guys would stop talking about "other " things.
Aquarist007
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835825#post14835825 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I don't know what you guys are talking about. I am here just to help Noobs learn all they can about UGFs, I mean help them learn all they can so they can advance out of the Noob forum.
I would never ever mention anything else besides good fish keeping, I wish you guys would stop talking about "other " things.
me too Paul:
my previous post---ahem unanswered I might add
I guess it was too much on topic or considered "other" things:lol:
Re: this months article---an excellent job as always.
"Do yourself and your new live rock a favor and do at least 25% water changes every day on a cycling tank."
If you are deligent and test for ammonia and nitrates on a daily basis but seen no spikes, is it really necessary to do water changes.
I saw no spikes when my tank initially cycled and was told at the time to not do a water change until the fifth week of the cycle.
It was felt otherwise that it would have just been a waste of salt since nothing was in the tank to consume it. It was futher stated that the buffer system with the argonite substrate was also developing and unnecessary water changes could throw that off.
__________________
liveforphysics
New member
I disagree with 4 of the 8 points in this article.
Waterchanges delay cycle:
"Cycled" is just another word for dynamic balance between various compound evolution, and it's breakdown to lower thermodynamic states(and less hazardous) via various bio-driven process.
Adding a metered quanity of Ammonia to the tank daily would be a much more productive alternative than waterchanges. It also creates bacteria levels in a ready state to keep fish.
It has nothing to do with bacteria in the water. It has to do with not distrubing the various parts of the cycle from reaching a dynamic equilibrium.
IMHO, you are recomending a foolish waste of resources.
Reduced Salinity:
Running lower(not hypo) salinity in a FO isn't about harming bad protozoa. It's about a reduction in the osmotic stress energy budget of the fish. The higher the salinity, the more energy the fish expends in maintaining it's own blood. It has been proven many times that the oxygen demand and metabolic energy needs of a fish are reduced as the solution approaches isosmotic to the fish's blood. If a fish is weak, starving, recovering from shipping stress, mal-nurished, etc, then a lower salinity enviroment leaves them with more energy budget left for other processes, including immune system. If you wish to see evidence of this:
Nordlie F.G. 1978. The influence of environmental salinity on respiratory oxygen demands in the euryhaline teleost, Ambassis interrupta Bleeker. Comp. Biochem. Physiol. A 59:271-274.
Woo N.Y.S. and Chung K.C. 1995. Tolerance of Pomacanthus imperator to hypoosmotic salinities: changes in body composition and hepatic enzyme activities. J. Fish Biol. 47(1):70-81.
Wu R.S.S. and Woo N.Y.S. 1983. Tolerance of hypo-osmotic salinities in thirteen species of adult marine fish: implications for estuarine fish culture. Aquaculture 32:175-181.
Live sand:
I agree that packaged live sand is absolutely not needed, and that any approprate sand and a single piece of live rock will be adquate. However, most all brands of live sand are just scoops of sand from an ocean, and do amazingly include live animals like bristle worms and various pods. I've seen this myself from poking through the contents of a bag of caribsea. The durability of these animals is so tough, during a tank moving process, I once left my old sandbed in trash sacks in an unheated garage in winter for 2 months. Upon opening to wash out the sand and re-use, I was amazed to see various live worms, pods, and even hermit crabs that were still alive in the sand.
Moonlights:
I never had snail or coral spawning events until I used them. Not going to try to debate anything, could be purely coindinces, but I personally do think they effect the behavior of certian animals. Certianly not critical for a newb starting out, and I have no disgreement with you putting this point in your article, though I'm a bit confused as to why. If it offers an enhancement of asthetic effect at minimal cost, I don't see why it wouldn't be viewed as a great thing for anyone keeping a tank for asthetic purposes (newbs).
Activated Carbon:
"Carbon improves water quality and reduces bioload on the tank, so I would say to go ahead and use it."
Carbon does not reduce bioload on a tank... It has it's purposes, and is fine in moderation. It's useful lifespan in a tank is over extremely quickly, and is nothing to rely on as an alternative to bio-processes.
Other than those points, I enjoy your writing style, and I thought the rest of the article was spot-on.
Best Wishes,
-Luke
Waterchanges delay cycle:
"Cycled" is just another word for dynamic balance between various compound evolution, and it's breakdown to lower thermodynamic states(and less hazardous) via various bio-driven process.
Adding a metered quanity of Ammonia to the tank daily would be a much more productive alternative than waterchanges. It also creates bacteria levels in a ready state to keep fish.
It has nothing to do with bacteria in the water. It has to do with not distrubing the various parts of the cycle from reaching a dynamic equilibrium.
IMHO, you are recomending a foolish waste of resources.
Reduced Salinity:
Running lower(not hypo) salinity in a FO isn't about harming bad protozoa. It's about a reduction in the osmotic stress energy budget of the fish. The higher the salinity, the more energy the fish expends in maintaining it's own blood. It has been proven many times that the oxygen demand and metabolic energy needs of a fish are reduced as the solution approaches isosmotic to the fish's blood. If a fish is weak, starving, recovering from shipping stress, mal-nurished, etc, then a lower salinity enviroment leaves them with more energy budget left for other processes, including immune system. If you wish to see evidence of this:
Nordlie F.G. 1978. The influence of environmental salinity on respiratory oxygen demands in the euryhaline teleost, Ambassis interrupta Bleeker. Comp. Biochem. Physiol. A 59:271-274.
Woo N.Y.S. and Chung K.C. 1995. Tolerance of Pomacanthus imperator to hypoosmotic salinities: changes in body composition and hepatic enzyme activities. J. Fish Biol. 47(1):70-81.
Wu R.S.S. and Woo N.Y.S. 1983. Tolerance of hypo-osmotic salinities in thirteen species of adult marine fish: implications for estuarine fish culture. Aquaculture 32:175-181.
Live sand:
I agree that packaged live sand is absolutely not needed, and that any approprate sand and a single piece of live rock will be adquate. However, most all brands of live sand are just scoops of sand from an ocean, and do amazingly include live animals like bristle worms and various pods. I've seen this myself from poking through the contents of a bag of caribsea. The durability of these animals is so tough, during a tank moving process, I once left my old sandbed in trash sacks in an unheated garage in winter for 2 months. Upon opening to wash out the sand and re-use, I was amazed to see various live worms, pods, and even hermit crabs that were still alive in the sand.
Moonlights:
I never had snail or coral spawning events until I used them. Not going to try to debate anything, could be purely coindinces, but I personally do think they effect the behavior of certian animals. Certianly not critical for a newb starting out, and I have no disgreement with you putting this point in your article, though I'm a bit confused as to why. If it offers an enhancement of asthetic effect at minimal cost, I don't see why it wouldn't be viewed as a great thing for anyone keeping a tank for asthetic purposes (newbs).
Activated Carbon:
"Carbon improves water quality and reduces bioload on the tank, so I would say to go ahead and use it."
Carbon does not reduce bioload on a tank... It has it's purposes, and is fine in moderation. It's useful lifespan in a tank is over extremely quickly, and is nothing to rely on as an alternative to bio-processes.
Other than those points, I enjoy your writing style, and I thought the rest of the article was spot-on.
Best Wishes,
-Luke
Aquarist007
New member
IMO adding ammonia to the tank is not a viable choice. The cycling of the live rock is more then enough for the bacteria to establish given the time to do so,
The word "time" is very important. Adding things to try and speed up the establishment of a biological filtration system can prove very dangerous; you are better off to let nature do its thing for trhe 3 to 5 weeks it normally takes.
Bacteria will rise to a given biomass but when the biomass is taken care of their numbers level off only to have to recycle when a new biomass is introduced---I think this is what you were referring to when you mentioned equiibrium state.
I also agree with you that there are other processes going on in a newly setup aquarium.
Waterkeeper mentioned that water changes don't affect the cycling bacteria in that they are not water borne.
My question would be if water changes can affect the development of other processes and cycling that is trying to establish in the aquarium(eg the food chain---the development of basic foods--phyto and zooplankton)
Aquarist007
New member
I believe our esteemed mentor was put in the position of having to mete out some discipline
Aquarist007
New member
BTW
good discussion points Luke--its refreshing:smokin:
I always thought osmosis and diffusion were passive transport processes??
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Okay Noobs if you're tired of searching for your favorite thread then cast your vote here:
- Let this thread float (hopefully not to page 5)?
OR - Make it a Sticky again?
[/list=1]
WaterKeeper being the democratic analytical chemist (and revered leader of the information hungry) that he is, will abide by our wishes.
Aquarist007
New member
-
really alan? IMO Waterkeepers recent silence on this thread speaks volumes
Instead of a vote how about getting invovled in the discussion of his column like some of us I trying to do
Similar threads
