Nothing wrong with dumping plastic waste in the ocean?

[Megalodon]

I was just talking to a school teacher and got the lecture of a lifetime. Apparently I'm uneducated and ignorant for believing all the plastic floating around in the ocean is a bad thing. He claims that everything is food for something else... and that plastic is no different than any other natural waste product ocean life produces. He says it's the natural way evolution works... ie., lifeforms that can't tolerate the plastic will die, which is good, and that lifeforms that can eat the plastic will evolve. And trying to interfere with this is nothing more than meddling with nature.

What do you think? Crazy right?

 

[Megalodon]

Here's one of the many things he has said to me. It's true about waste being energy-rich and good food for "something" but he says this in the context that somehow makes it OK to litter the ocean...

My goodness, I hope you don't discover that everything living excretes toxic waste and that other organisms feed on it. Plastics are hydrocarbon molecules- energy rich carbon-carbon bonds. If you knew anything about life on this planet you'd know that waste is good food, for something. Some bacteria will evolve just the right set of genes to feed on polyethylene or polystyrene or polycarbonate. Heck, in another 10 years we'll probably be able to make a bacteria that will do just that.

 

[billsreef]

So far there is nothing that eats plastic. Well I should rephrase that, there is nothing that can eat plastic and break it down. There is a huge problem with wildlife eating plastic and dieing from the resulting gut impaction problems. Perhaps he should try some and see if he adapts?

 

[Megalodon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13546766#post13546766 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
So far there is nothing that eats plastic. Well I should rephrase that, there is nothing that can eat plastic and break it down. There is a huge problem with wildlife eating plastic and dieing from the resulting gut impaction problems. Perhaps he should try some and see if he adapts?

Thanks for your response Bill! I like that!

Question for you, since you're a marine biologist and could estimate better than I ever could... how long do you think it would take for plastic-eating bacteria to evolve? Just a rough ballbark guestimated figure, in terms of thousands or millions of years... thanks!

 

[Aqua Keepers]

Re: Nothing wrong with dumping plastic waste in the ocean?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13546711#post13546711 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Megalodon
And trying to interfere with this is nothing more than meddling with nature.

Well it sure wasn't mother nature who created plastic and tossed it into the ocean.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13546824#post13546824 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Megalodon
how long do you think it would take for plastic-eating bacteria to evolve? Just a rough ballbark guestimated figure, in terms of thousands or millions of years... thanks!

Possibly never Heck, there is plenty of sand at the beach that has been around for a few billion years with nothing evolving to eat it, so why would one even assume that something will evolve to eat plastic.

 

[Megalodon]

Another thing I notice about some people when we're on the topic of saving the ocean is the logical fallacy that just because something's beneficial or tolerable in small amounts, the same holds true for large amounts.

For example, CO2. Or crude oil.

How do they figure? We need insulin to live but that doesn't mean it's OK if we have too much. It's just commonsense.

Ah well, people will think what they want, I suppose. It's their right.

 

[Megalodon]

Re: Re: Nothing wrong with dumping plastic waste in the ocean?

Re: Re: Nothing wrong with dumping plastic waste in the ocean?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13546937#post13546937 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pito
Well it sure wasn't mother nature who created plastic and tossed it into the ocean.

True that.

Some of these people believe that because us humans are natural, that the things we create with technology is therefore by default natural as well. No responsibility or limitations required in this fair-game reality of evolution. That apparently even applies to litter in the ocean.

 

[coralnut99]

This line of thinking came from a schoolteacher?

There's a gazillion viewpoints on what's right and wrong with regard to what's truly a hazard to the environment.

But the fact that this came from a schoolteacher just leaves me speechless.

 

[cdness]

That teacher needs to be fired... I have heard some wild remarks from teachers before but not this bad.

 

[Rueg]

Perhaps he should try his own thoughts out on himself. Perhaps he should drink some type of toxin - if he dies then that was the way it was meant to be and good for the earth - since he couldn't adapt to processing the toxin.

I can't believe this person is a school teacher.

 

[Toddrtrex]

I wish I could remember what channel I saw this on. But, they were talking about the section of the Pacific where all the floating plastic collects and all the damage it does there. To both the fish and the seabirds.

 

[hahnmeister]

There are bacteria that break down plastics... not in the ocean however.

There are plenty of critters that eat sand though... maybe not silica sand (not alot of beaches with that though... mostly calcium based sands), but CaCO3 is digested by plenty of critters.

 

[PSam]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13552600#post13552600 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Toddrtrex
I wish I could remember what channel I saw this on. But, they were talking about the section of the Pacific where all the floating plastic collects and all the damage it does there. To both the fish and the seabirds.

The Pacific Gyre.

http://www.algalita.org/research.html

http://thestory.org/sidebars/photos-of-a-plastic-ocean

There's also that Nat Geo show w/ Jean-Michel Cousteau, one of the episodes is re: plastic washing up on islands. Really disgusting,

 

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13553221#post13553221 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PSam
The Pacific Gyre.

http://www.algalita.org/research.html

http://thestory.org/sidebars/photos-of-a-plastic-ocean

There's also that Nat Geo show w/ Jean-Michel Cousteau, one of the episodes is re: plastic washing up on islands. Really disgusting,

Thanks, that is it exactly. Of of those pictures are from the show I was watching. It was at 3 in the morning, so hard to remember all the details.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13552666#post13552666 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
There are bacteria that break down plastics... not in the ocean however.

There are plenty of critters that eat sand though... maybe not silica sand (not alot of beaches with that though... mostly calcium based sands), but CaCO3 is digested by plenty of critters.

Got any references for the plastic eating bacteria? I'd be quite curious.

BTW silica sand is the rule on beaches outside of the narrow band of the tropics Most of the US coastline is silica sand in fact. I can send you plenty

 

[hahnmeister]

http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=983

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/05/teen-decomposes.html

"Burd mixed landfill dirt with yeast and tap water, then added ground plastic and let it stew. " ^^^

Bacteria can do anything... from turning algae and other biostuff into cellulosic ethanol, to digesting our waste. Heck, Amyris Biotechnologies in Cali figured out how to gene-splice yeast and an 'undisclosed plant' into a bacteria that produces biodiesel that is chemically identical to petroleum-based diesel.

Not to mention, 'biodegradable' plastics that break down in sunlight. Plastic, after all, was found WITH bacteria (and 'bacterial plastic' is a big R&D area right now). Plastics and polymers have alot in common with fuels (cellulosic)... might be something to consider. Our trash now might be our fuel of tomorrow. All plastic is made of carbon. Man-made plastic uses carbon derived from oil, while biopolymers or bioplastics use carbon derived from natural materials
http://inventors.about.com/od/pstartinventions/a/plastics.htm

I think the main thing to keep in mind isnt what it is... mercury is a current 'buzz topic' in this regard, esp w/ CF lightbulbs. Hey, better in the bulb than in the air from all the extra coal/fuel we would be burning to power the tungsten bulb it replaces!! But seriously, its not about WHAT it is, but WHERE it is. We dont poop in our front lawns and pee in out kitchen sinks. Likewise, while plastics are no more 'evil' than mercury or nuclear technology, they arent good when dipnetters in the pacific are sifting more plastic out of the ocean than plankton. They need to be kept in the landfills, recycled, processed, etc.

 

[metalManiac]

i believe the teacher is just out to try and prove a point, but he should not be encouraging unsafe practices under the pretense that at some point these wastes will be removed/converted due to environmental factors which cannot be foreseen in present time..

Megladon, i do not believe that you are uneducated or ignorant, but try not to use the words 'all' when it comes to Science, there are always exceptions to the rule. (and with that point, yes, he could argue that not ALL plastics have a negative effect on the environment, the percentage is not relevant, the wording is).

"He says it's the natural way evolution works", depending on your interpretation of natural, i believe this statement is incorrect. Plastics (such as those found floating around in the ocean) would simply not be produced to an extent where they might be mistaken for, say, a jellyfish by a turtle. To say that all turtles would be placed in a situation where they must evolve to either digest or avoid plastic bags is nonsensical. The truth is, naturally, this situation would never have happened. (again, dependig on the individuals definition of natural).

 

[Freed]

I could see if the plastic six pack can/bottle connectors were the fruit of a plant and we used them without having to artificially creat them by converting oil into plastic then he would have a leg to stand on but since we have to chemically alter oil, along with other chemicals, to get the plastic then I'd hope he gets fired for being a teacher and not knowing squat about nature.

 

[greenbean36191]

Well, there are bacteria that have evolved the ability to breakdown nylon derivatives that didn't exist prior to the 1940s. However, these are close analogs to amino acids, so it's not a huge leap to do that. There are also biologically derived plastics like PLA and celluloid that break down pretty quickly. Discussing them skirts the issue though. The problem is with some of the most common plastics like PVC and HDPE that don't have close biological analogs, so there's no expectation that anything will evolve to break them down anytime soon.