Nothing wrong with dumping plastic waste in the ocean?

[Runfrumu]

When you go to his class throw drink bottles, gum wrappers etc on his floor, and then tell him your waiting for something to evolve that will eat it.

 

[billsreef]

Hmm, one of my favorite points on this Island does tend to accumulate lots of plastic bottles among the rocks and driftwood Perhaps I can send them to him?

 

[Megalodon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13575160#post13575160 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sunny1977
Pls explain this statement - there's nothing wrong with driving a species to extinction ourselves. That it's natural because we ourselves are natural. how is that??????

I cannot explain this statement at all as my brain is incompatible with his line of reasoning. My guess is that extinctions of the past has set some kind of modern precedent that we can morally somehow do it too because it's natural.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13575160#post13575160 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sunny1977
there are no species that have been saved from extinction by humans.

ask him to learn how to use internet there a long list of plants and animals saved and reintroduced.

I did. The main example I used are whales. I said if it weren't for conservation efforts whales would have been gone in the 80s. In response, he said to me, "Duh, they didn't go extinct because they banned hunting them." I said, "I know, banning the hunting of them IS a conservation effort in itself."

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13575160#post13575160 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sunny1977
Is he really a teacher ?? is he has moral values ?

He does not believe morality applies to ecology. He believes morality was invented by humans and that it's unimportant to the planet. He believes in right to life and liberty for humans and all, but when it's anything but humans, nothing. Death, suffering, and destruction has been happening since the dawn of time therefore it's OK for humans to reproduce natural tragedy.

As for what kind of teacher he is, he answered, "I teach marine science and biology. I've got two decades of experience in the "field" (oceanic and estuarial)."

In another thread he said he was just a fisherman.

 

[Megalodon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13575956#post13575956 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Hmm, one of my favorite points on this Island does tend to accumulate lots of plastic bottles among the rocks and driftwood Perhaps I can send them to him?

This is what he said regarding the plastic-eating bacteria...

What makes you think they haven't already evolved? Bacteria mutate constantly (you might want to look into mutation rates) and are quick to adapt to new food sources. Petroleum isn't that difficult to harvest for energy. Microbes arrived before us and will be here long after we depart.

 

[billsreef]

I see he also likes circular logic :lol:

He might claim to teach marine science and biology, but I'm quite sure he'd get torn to shreds if he ever visited my dept.

 

[Megalodon]

Oh goodness, I just found out he keeps marine aquariums himself. I think he's on the Gulf of Mexico and collects the specimens himself:

I have a few marine aquaria as it happens. I'm down to 2 from 5. Right now I have a lovely Scorpaena plumieri in my home tank, he's alone except for the Palinurus and a Busycon and some local algae. I collected them a few years ago and Scorpy is getting fairly large. He has cute relationship with the pali. I'm going to introduce some other inverts at some point. Scorpy eats any fish I put in. At school I have a nice selection of feather-dusters and a nice Histrio (about 10 cm) along with some Gambusia holbrookii and a little Geddes.

I wonder if one of his students dumped their garbage in the duster tank if he would mind. Maybe throw a copper penny in there or a mercury battery. And say, "adapt or die!" LOL.

:rollface:

 

[greenbean36191]

Hmm, a "marine science" guy that works in estuaries on the Gulf Coast. I wonder if I know him.

 

[billsreef]

You'll have to find him and set him straight

 

[coralnut99]

Should be pretty easy to spot.

 

[Megalodon]

Hey again everyone, please pipe in here and tell me what you think of these comments. This is his reponse to my opinion that there is a unpredented decline in the world's ecosystems due to pollution and over-exploitation by humans...

(I am) waiting for you to prove (the world's ecosystems) are unhealthy.

Extinctions are unavoidable. They happen despite your best wishes and most of them don't involve cute fuzzy animals.

They generally have little to do with humans. It's your breathtaking arrogance that makes you say that we can stop it.

The planet has been killing off major portions of Life for billions of years and most of it happened long before humans showed up in the 20th century

The species loss these days is NOTHING compared to the die-offs during the major extinction events, despite your bleating. Besides which, species are lost constantly anyway- its what happens when nature works.

Nature doesn't keep everything around forever. It kills them creatures off without man's help.

Sometimes humans help things along with unsustainable hunting practices but these are mostly primitive societies without regard for your feelings. Mostly their numbers are low so you don't notice and of course since you only know what you've been told, you don't have any idea of what's not dying. Half-wits like you who've never read a history book outside of school swallow whatever the latest enviro article claims and draw idiotic conclusions.

 

[billsreef]

(I am) waiting for you to prove (the world's ecosystems) are unhealthy.

He needs to open up his eyes, or take his rose colored glasses off. We have sufficiently levels of hormones in coastal waters to effect the sex ration of fish, these are from a combination of pharmaceuticals and detergents. i.e. totally man made problem. Around my area, closure of creeks and areas of bays to shellfishing, due to pollution. Declining fish stocks, not to mention other animals in other environments...the list goes on. But I doubt he'd consider any of it valid

Extinctions are unavoidable. They happen despite your best wishes and most of them don't involve cute fuzzy animals.

In some cases yes. However, there are far more due to mans activities such as deforestation, hunting....remember the Dodo bird and the Homing Pigeon? Your example of the whales is also excellent in terms of something almost being driven to extinction by man.

The planet has been killing off major portions of Life for billions of years and most of it happened long before humans showed up in the 20th century

Yes, however, the current rate of extinction is unprecedented without the help of an ice age.

The species loss these days is NOTHING compared to the die-offs during the major extinction events, despite your bleating.

Nope, see above :lol:

Nature doesn't keep everything around forever. It kills them creatures off without man's help.

That still doesn't give us the right to screw up the environment and drive species to extinction for the sake of our greed.

Sometimes humans help things along with unsustainable hunting practices but these are mostly primitive societies without regard for your feelings

Didn't realize we were still considered a primitive society.

Half-wits like you who've never read a history book outside of school swallow whatever the latest enviro article claims and draw idiotic conclusions.

Resorting to insults is typical of someone with no real basis for their arguments, so they need to grasp for straws and insults instead :lol:

Were did you find this guy anyway? If need be, you can PM me that one

 

[Megalodon]

Bill, you're great.

This guy's from itshappening.com, a message board I consider to be "home base" when online. It's a forum to talk just about everything.

Mars S is our resident "marine biolgist/teacher/fisherman" who is quick to tell anyone they're wrong when conservation becomes the subject. When you question him, he doesn't provide information to support his claims, he just compares credentials.

The topic of this particular thread is about 1/4 of mammals facing extinction but I have started many conservation threads, mostly about rain forests and the ocean, and he has been there everytime to tell everyone how uneducated and confused I am. So regardless of the thread topic, it's the same old, same old, in relation to everything living on Earth, especially the oceans. I've unfortunately known him for a while now.

Here's the link...

http://www.wincoast.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81681

 

[billsreef]

You must like arguing to put up with that lot :lol:

 

[greenbean36191]

At this point it's abundantly clear that this guy is not a scientist.

The species loss these days is NOTHING compared to the die-offs during the major extinction events, despite your bleating.

Not only is it SOMETHING, it's the fastest rate of species loss ever- greater than the event that killed off the dinosaurs. We're currently losing species at at least 10-100 times the background rate, but possibly as much as 10,000x by some estimates.

Nature doesn't keep everything around forever. It kills them creatures off without man's help.

Yeah, but it usually keeps them around long enough that speciation occurs faster than extinction. That's not happening currently, which kind of throws a wrench in his idea that surely something will evolve soon to eat the plastic that's killing things off.

Sometimes humans help things along with unsustainable hunting practices but these are mostly primitive societies without regard for your feelings. Half-wits like you who've never read a history book outside of school swallow whatever the latest enviro article claims and draw idiotic conclusions.

In the past 300 years there have been 21 documented marine extinctions with over 3/4 of those coming in the last 35 years. Ten of those are known to be due to humans, and not primitive societies either- Russia, the US, Japan, etc.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13551850#post13551850 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cdness
That teacher needs to be fired... I have heard some wild remarks from teachers before but not this bad.

Should he be fired any faster than the teacher who teaches that global warming is a man made phenomenon? What about the teacher who teaches evolution? Or the one who teaches creation? Intelligent design? How about the teacher who does nothing but spew liberalism or the one who preaches conservatism? There are plenty of good teachers, but there are also plenty of very poor teachers. Depending on where you stand, one may look crazier than another!

The guy appears to be poorly informed but likely intelligent. You will find people like that on any side of any issue. He likely has some very good points, but the over-the-top (somewhat baseless) opinions built on those points diminish his credibility and make him look silly to those more informed with the facts.

 

[Megalodon]

To the biologists here, he wants to speak with you...

Get your experienced biologists on the line and let's talk about it. I'd be fascinated to know how these characters assessed the totality of Life on this planet and how your "experienced biologists" view the claims and the evidence supporting them.

 

[swencel]

I'm no biologist but isn't it true that anything can be proven or diproven depending on what "evidence" is allowed or disallowed? At that point there isn't any reason to pursue the issue with this person because only evidence supporting his/her theory would be considered and the debate would escalate into a ****ing contest. It's just sad that anyone would be so single minded especially when dealing with something as serious as this.

 

[BeanAnimal]

swencel, You may want to consider the point the teacher is trying to make. From his perspective, the issue is not serious.

I think you will find that he is willing to argue the "big picture" in terms of the lifetime of the planet, universe or whatever. Those he argues with will more often than not argue from the perspective of this moment in the life of the planet give or take a few hundred or thousand years. I.E. some will argue for humanity and preservation by way of conscious guilt or moral responsibility of what they deam as "natural" or ideal for one type of existence or another. He will argue that the planet has been a ball of molten rock and a ball of ice and everything in between and will be swallowed by the sun one day anyway. He will argue that anything we or another creature does is "natural" and that something will come along and dispose of us just as fast as we dispose of other life forms.

You are correct, though. Nothing good will come of the debate.

 

[greenbean36191]

The impacts of humans on various environments are pretty well documented. However, it seems like his argument is that human impacts are by definition natural, so it's an unwinnable argument to convince him that humans are causing unnatural damage, regardless of how much of that damage you can prove to him.

 

[Megalodon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13617530#post13617530 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
The impacts of humans on various environments are pretty well documented. However, it seems like his argument is that human impacts are by definition natural, so it's an unwinnable argument to convince him that humans are causing unnatural damage, regardless of how much of that damage you can prove to him.

Well, there's two parts to this silly argument. 1) We're not having an impact and 2) even if we are, there's nothing wrong with it. I wish I could see you all talk directly but you probably couldn't be bothered, as I don't blame you. Me on the other-hand, I like to debate.