Nurse Sharks in the Aquarium trade

[Blinkgyrl2987]

Hi all,
I'd like to share an article that got published in Maryland just this weekend. I really think that this Marine Rescue Center is onto something good here and Im curious as to what others will think about it.

They are lobbying this thursday in Annapolis to stop the sale of Nurse sharks into pet stores as well as other large species that reach greater than 3-4 feet or so. They also express in the article they're desire for fish to have rights. Please read this article and post your opinions! I'm sure you will find this to be interesting. Also be sure to check out the video.

I've posted the link below

http://www.mdgazette.com/content/love-sharks

 

[jmchzn123]

Absolutely. It's ridiculous that people keep sharks and rays in 6 ft tanks and even smaller. Here's what I think. If you want one you should have to apply for special permit. The permit comes with an inspection of the tank where minimum requirements like Sq footage and water volume and filtration are enforced. That or just outlaw it. I have seen a few in home tanks and felt awful everytime. Sometimes they barely have enough room to turn around. Sharks are swimmers. Its like putting a tang in a goldfish bowl I don't know why people don't see that. ****es me off!!

 

[areeftank]

+1....

 

[coralfish]

Fish to have rights!? Sounds like a "Fish's Life" to me....ridiculous.

However I do agree that some species should require some sort of permit to own; or not be available for sale at all. But, you must be very careful in what you allow the government to regulate, they're not very good at that sort of thing. Things tend to get more messed up the more they have control over.

Then as far as the permit goes, who's gonna do the inspection? Who's gonna pay their salary and benefits? Who's gonna collect the permit fee? Who's gonna make sure that you don't sell your 500 gal tank, downgrade to a 125 and keep your shark?

It won't work. Government needs to stay out of my business; They have plenty of their own to swim in.

 

[Luiz Rocha]

I also think that a fish "bill of rights" is going one step too far. But making people get permits won't cut it either. I think what needs to happen is for those species to stop being traded, plain and simple, large sharks and rays should not be in the aquarium trade, they already have too many problems to deal with. The only people allowed to get them alive should be those that run public aquaria.

As far as leaving the government out of our business, if not the government, who else will do it? I am willing to bet how much ever you want that if the government stopped restrictions on the wild animal trade from Africa there would be thousands of people lining up to try to keep lions as pets or just buy elephant tusks. I am sorry but some things have to be controlled by official authorities, and in our case that means the government, not everything can be self-regulated.

 

[coralfish]

I agree that they shouldn't be traded, except for public aquariums. But a "fish bill of rights", come on! What's gonna happen when your tank crashes and the animal warden shows up at your door and arrests you for animal cruelty?

The government needs to keep its hands out of my reef tank, my grandkids aren't even allowed to play in there. And God knows that I love my grandkids alot more than I do Washington.

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

Luiz Rocha: I agree!

I definitely don't think its something that could or should be regulated. Nurse sharks just don't need to be sold. plain and simple.

The fish Rights thing seems silly at first, but if you open your mind to what it would mean for fish it might make more sense. For instance did you know that when someone moves and leaves behind a fish tank, is evited, or goes to jail ... that the fish and corals left behind in the home aquaria are left to die in most scenarios? Animal control isnt trained with how to deal with that sort of thing. However when dogs, cats, birds, reptiles, or small animals are left behind animal control will come in and take care of it. All of those animals have rights, fish on the other hand do not. So if you can imagine fish tanks, fish, corals and all kinds of other living things and how they are just tossed in the garbage when they are abandoned, tell me why is that allowed??? --Because Fish don't have rights =(

The Fish Rights thing isn't meant to to be this rediculous out of no where bogus idea. It simply means requiring the same fair treatment to fish that all other animals already receive. As of right now the law says how we must govern all the other animals and then says the words "excluding fish". Getting fish to have rights would be as simple as changing the words "excluding fish" to "including fish". It would be as simple as changing ONE word!

I just think it makes sense. Sea Save currently takes phone calls from Animal control. When animal control has an abandoned tank on their hands, they call Sea Save and they take care of it for them. The Bill for Fish Rights would require that fish be treated like all other living creatures.

 

[coralfish]

Getting fish to have rights would be as simple as changing the words "excluding fish" to "including fish". It would be as simple as changing ONE word!

I just think it makes sense. Sea Save currently takes phone calls from Animal control. When animal control has an abandoned tank on their hands, they call Sea Save and they take care of it for them. The Bill for Fish Rights would require that fish be treated like all other living creatures.

So, if my fish die I am just as liable as if my dog dies; because now fish have the same "rights" as my dogs? Or if my tangs start fighting and one kills all the others I can be charged with "fish fighting", because let's face it, the District Attorney will find posts on RC saying that 2 yellow tangs shouldn't be kept together, or that a clown tang will eventually kill everything else in the tank, and I should have taken the necessary steps to ensure that my fish don't fight, just like I have to with my dogs?

Hmmm, open your mind to the idea and see where it takes us.

 

[Quickcord]

So, if my fish die I am just as liable as if my dog dies; because now fish have the same "rights" as my dogs? Or if my tangs start fighting and one kills all the others I can be charged with "fish fighting", because let's face it, the District Attorney will find posts on RC saying that 2 yellow tangs shouldn't be kept together, or that a clown tang will eventually kill everything else in the tank, and I should have taken the necessary steps to ensure that my fish don't fight, just like I have to with my dogs?

Hmmm, open your mind to the idea and see where it takes us.

Hmmm.. someone needs to take off the foil hat and stop searching for black helicopters.

What they are trying to do is address problems in the aquarium trade, not personal use. Even the best husbadry practices in the world will result in some fish loss. The main concern is with the LFS. Example, if you go to LFS that sells dogs or cats they have regulations regarding how the animals are kept. You cannot have 5 lab pups in a 2x2 crate, it would be unsanitary and the likelyhood of disease would be more prevelant. Apply that to the aquarium trade. Maybe your LFS is clean and the fish are kept in good environments until they are purchased, but there are a few close to me that are really appaling. 40 saltwater tanks. 80-85% have ick and dead/dying fish in them, but fish are still sold out of them. One LFS here gets some nice blue and purple Gigantea and Magnifica anemones, only to watch them die because they cannot keep them alive even short term. If the LFS cannot provide healthy livestock for its customers due to improper care/practices, they should be fined and told to correct the problem. If the LFS cannot keep it alive, why are they stocking it?

Quickcord

 

[coralfish]

Hmmm.. someone needs to take off the foil hat and stop searching for black helicopters

I like my foil hat and the sound that helicopters make

 

[Quickcord]

Quickcord

 

[Cerastes]

I also think that a fish "bill of rights" is going one step too far. But making people get permits won't cut it either. I think what needs to happen is for those species to stop being traded, plain and simple, large sharks and rays should not be in the aquarium trade, they already have too many problems to deal with. The only people allowed to get them alive should be those that run public aquaria.

As far as leaving the government out of our business, if not the government, who else will do it? I am willing to bet how much ever you want that if the government stopped restrictions on the wild animal trade from Africa there would be thousands of people lining up to try to keep lions as pets or just buy elephant tusks. I am sorry but some things have to be controlled by official authorities, and in our case that means the government, not everything can be self-regulated.

I can only speak for PA, but currently a Lion is a rather easy animal to legally obtain here. As long as there are no local restrictions all one need do is ask the Game Commission for the required specs of an enclosure, build it, submit it to and pass an inspection and pay the permit fee (which was $300 last time I checked) and go buy a Lion. And you can buy a domestically produced Lion cub for less that you would spend on a good quality pedigreed Persian housecat. And yet there aren't alot of people who keep Lions even in a state as permissive as this. You need to think up a better example of irrational hyperbole! You have a very dim view of the individuals of your own species. Do you think they magically become "better" when they get elected or appointed to office? You don't think that an individual should be able to dictate the life of a fish (unless you agree with their dictation I suspect) and yet you have no problem letting people dictate the life of other people. This really makes sense to you?

 

[alton]

Common sense out the window again, write another law to add to the others we don't uphold. Look at the lionfish issues in the Carribean add them to the list, along with callerapa keep on going.

 

[coralfish]

Common sense out the window again, write another law to add to the others we don't uphold. Look at the lionfish issues in the Carribean add them to the list, along with callerapa keep on going.

It will never end until we are all beholden to and by The Man.

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

Quickcord I'm glad you can see the point. Means a lot

 

[Luiz Rocha]

I can only speak for PA, but currently a Lion is a rather easy animal to legally obtain here. As long as there are no local restrictions all one need do is ask the Game Commission for the required specs of an enclosure, build it, submit it to and pass an inspection and pay the permit fee (which was $300 last time I checked) and go buy a Lion. And you can buy a domestically produced Lion cub for less that you would spend on a good quality pedigreed Persian housecat. And yet there aren't alot of people who keep Lions even in a state as permissive as this. You need to think up a better example of irrational hyperbole! You have a very dim view of the individuals of your own species. Do you think they magically become "better" when they get elected or appointed to office? You don't think that an individual should be able to dictate the life of a fish (unless you agree with their dictation I suspect) and yet you have no problem letting people dictate the life of other people. This really makes sense to you?

Wow, amazing, I had no idea, but if you don't like the lion example, just take the elephant tusk one... But you are correct, the larger problem can only be solved with education, too bad it takes so long to educate people and I think at least in some cases we have to do something for the short-term.

 

[IbanezIC300]

I don't mean to put this on LFS's but if they did more research into who is buying the sharks (or other large fish) or they simply stopped ordering sharks (unless special ordered) then a lot of problems could be solved. I have even heard of stores that have stopped selling nurse shark because they get too big. I do not like the idea of additional laws regarding fish since it could end up truly limiting the hobby with respect to the available types of fish for those people that can actually maintain them.

 

[Cerastes]

Wow, amazing, I had no idea, but if you don't like the lion example, just take the elephant tusk one... But you are correct, the larger problem can only be solved with education, too bad it takes so long to educate people and I think at least in some cases we have to do something for the short-term.

The biggest problem with govt imposed short term solutions is that they're rarely short term. As soon as a govt agency is brought into being it seeks ways to justify its own existence, quite often far outside of the scope of its original charter. It's not even a slippery slope, but a sheer cliff that they almost invariably jump off of with glee. And then we have another regulatory agency that doesn't answer to the people it regulates. No thank you!

 

[lostanime]

I'm actually confused as to why permits aren't required for some of our marine life.

When we acquire other "exotic" pets (i.e. when we started breeding sugar gliders 6 years back... I'm assuming this sort of thing is still required), we had to sign quite a bit of paperwork for a license to own them. It wasn't expensive, but it brought accountability for our animals and their well-being to the forefront. I don't even see where it is necessarily appropriate for all fish, but there are plenty that simply can't live healthy full lives in aquarium sizes readily available at big box pet stores.

If someone can afford to set up and run an aquarium large enough to keep larger sharks and rays, a one-time license fee is a drop in the bucket. No need for patroling, validating, etc. Just make it a crime to have these animals without a license, and to sell them to anyone without proof of license... with severe consequences if it's discovered that someone isn't in compliance.

Granted, I'm no politician, and I would expect them to be happier to outlaw all marine imports instead.

 

[capecoral]

Kinda glad though that I don't have to have any permits for regular stuff