OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef

[jnarowe]

Yes, the tank will be drilled and the hole plugged with a 3" bulkhead & plug.

I really dont know what to do for a backup plan. The only backup plan I can think of is to get a much better above ground pool and rig it so the skimmer could be attached. Then hang a spare lamp over it. Then I would need flow and a new tank in the works already.

Unfortunately, I am not ready for all of that so there is going to be some element of risk to this, which could get very ugly, but I doubt very much.

Are you guys trying to talk me out of this?

 

[mrcrab]

No trying to talk you out of it as I think it needs to be done with no new tank in sight. I'm just concerned if something catasrtophic happens and you don't have adequate backup.

I'm sure you could make a few phone calls and have plenty of baby sitters if worse came to worse.

 

[jnarowe]

That would be worse than taking care of it myself. Half the stuff I let go to other "reefers" ends up dead within a month.

And if something does happen, it's going to go very wrong and the pool won't help the flopping fish anyway. I'll be electrocuted instantly anyway, so what the hell would I care? fisizzle, POP!! :lol:

I must be the funniest man alive.

 

[jtarmitage]

Out of curiosity, why risk drilling out the area instead of using an oversized piece of acrylic bonded to the inside of the tank? That would seem like the easiest and safest way to go until you get a new tank. Sure it will be noticable, but much less so than a bulkhead, and you can make the acrylic sheet large enough to be sure to cover the afflicted area.

 

[jnarowe]

Actually, although that sounds like a good plan what would happen is the crazing would react to the solvent cement and get much worse. It could actually destroy that end of the tank.

I discussed this at length with some pros and they all said the same thing. And when I asked about making the "patch" significantly larger than the crazed area, they said that may work for a while, but as the crazing grows, the patch would not help at all. They felt trying to patch it was more risky than leaving it as it is.

 

[jtarmitage]

Well, there goes that bright idea!!! Seemed logical, but could see how the bonding agent could add stress during curing.

 

[quiksilver]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11690253#post11690253 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
They felt trying to patch it was more risky than leaving it as it is.

I'd say "leaving it as is" is just as risky as trying to "patch it" at this point. It's a 12 year old, 1000g tank, made from 3/4" acrylic?

After that long I can't believe the seems are holding.

 

[Micki]

I'm scared... :eek1:

Good Luck and keep us posted!

 

[kmacartney]

Good luck man!

 

[Hop]

Good luck J... I'm sure that things will go fairly smooth

 

[Bax]

Jonathan

Hope it works out, the bulkheads seem to be the best if not only option.

 

[sherm71tank]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11689961#post11689961 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
I already got the input. I spent a lot of time on that discussing it with 2 other builders besides James, and they all said the same thing (besides replace the tank). If the water is removed and the hole is drilled out well beyond the crazing, it shouldn't be any problem.

You specifically asked about using a hole saw to do this?

 

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11690675#post11690675 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by quiksilver
I'd say "leaving it as is" is just as risky as trying to "patch it" at this point. It's a 12 year old, 1000g tank, made from 3/4" acrylic?

After that long I can't believe the seems are holding.

These kind of posts are always so intriguing. Someone who never posts in this thread decides to impart their extensive knowledge of my tank without ever having laid eyes on it.

How do you know it's 12 years old?

How do you know it's a 1000g tank?

Tell us all your assessment of how the seams are built as well. Exactly how is this tank constructed?

Why can't you believe that the seams are still holding?

I am very interested in the data you have collected so far.

 

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11692535#post11692535 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sherm71tank
You specifically asked about using a hole saw to do this?

Knock it off Sherman...of course I did...how many other ways are there to drill for a bulkhead anyway?

 

[quiksilver]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11692536#post11692536 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
These kind of posts are always so intriguing. Someone who never posts in this thread decides to impart their extensive knowledge of my tank without ever having laid eyes on it.

How do you know it's 12 years old?

Wasn't 100% (hence the question mark), but I thought thats what I read in your thread. That's an old tank. Most people I know like replacing tanks after 8-10 years of use, knowing that the risk is thousands of dollars in livestock.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11692536#post11692536 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe

How do you know it's a 1000g tank?

I read your thread name, read quite a bit of your thread, the rules of deduction tell me it's a big tank didn't see the exact gallons except in the title, hence the question mark.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11692536#post11692536 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe

Tell us all your assessment of how the seams are built as well. Exactly how is this tank constructed?

Why can't you believe that the seams are still holding?

I am very interested in the data you have collected so far.

Well despite your sarcasm, I will definetly answer your questions and even in a non combative manor. I know many people build 300g and under tanks out of 3/4" or even 1". I have built all my sumps 25 gallons or more out of 3/8" acrylic and even used euro bracing. I saw that you had a 1" cross brace which is good. But what worries me is the 3/4" tank.

Acrylic doesn't "glue" like glass (as you already know from what I see you have built for you system). The "adhesive" used for acrylic is actually breaking down the acrylic itself chemically and fuse it to the other piece (like welding). Even at 500 gallons, the pressure on 3/4" would be huge.

The older acrylic gets in my experience, the more brittle (which is honestly why I believe in your pictures the heat from the vortec cracked it). If the acrylic had been new, I don't think there would have been an issue but even if there had I think newer acrylic would have warped/melted, not just cracked. That's how acrylic reacts to heat, it warps and bends.

I wasn't intending on coming across as mean. I just believe that is old and thin for a tank of that size.

I have to agree with these guys, the bulkhead is your best option by far. If the vortec did that at 150 degrees or less, be really careful using the hole saw. Those things can really heat up fast.

Good luck and I hope all goes smoothly.

 

[sherm71tank]

You don't want to discuss it, fine. I asked this question because of the heat generated by using a hole saw and the crazing you are trying to repair was caused by heat. Maybe a router could be used?

 

[steve the plumb]

You could also use a very big drill bit.Maybe the roto zip.A router would do the job.I don't know if J has the skills to use it.He might make the hole to big or drop the router on his foot while he is trying to fix the hole.He may end up scraping the tank.

 

[quiksilver]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11692669#post11692669 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sherm71tank
You don't want to discuss it, fine. I asked this question because of the heat generated by using a hole saw and the crazing you are trying to repair was caused by heat. Maybe a router could be used?

I gotta agree here. The heat from the hole saw is going to be more than even the hottest temps a vortec could generate as I stated. Just worried it could crack more. May want to explore other methods here, as sherm has stated there are alternatives.

 

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11692664#post11692664 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by quiksilver
Wasn't 100% (hence the question mark), but I thought thats what I read in your thread. That's an old tank. Most people I know like replacing tanks after 8-10 years of use, knowing that the risk is thousands of dollars in livestock.

I read your thread name, read quite a bit of your thread, the rules of deduction tell me it's a big tank didn't see the exact gallons except in the title, hence the question mark.

OK, I didn't read the "?" correctly. Sorry for the sarcasm on that. The reef is 1000+g but the tank is actually smaller than that.

The reason why this tank is still in decent condition with the exception of the damaged area, is that it was built very robustly. It is an unsual tank in how it is constructed and difficult to even describe. The bracing on it is laminated 2" x 6" and every "joint" in th etank is filled with Weld-On 40 much like a giant filet.

There is an ungodly amount of support for the panels using these methods and although todays' builders wouldn't build a tank this size with 3/4" panels, they also wouldn't use 2" thick bracing or build up the joints the way this one has been done.

It is a well built tank and even though many have blamed the tank construction for the damage, the simple fact is, if that pump did not over-heat, there would be no damage. If the pumps didn't transmit heat to the tank surface, there would be no damage. The evidence is very clear.

So many people post that their pumps don't get too hot, and so many post that they do. Every Vortech I have ever felt has been hot. Running them in pulse mode at about 2/3 cycle seems to keep them at a low enough temp. that no subsequent damage is seen.

But when you step up and examine my tank, the only conclusion you can come to is that particular pump went haywire. It malfunctioned in some manner that caused a serious spike in heat. It was on the old driver, and it probably is one of those 1 in 100,000 incidents. Since the old driver is being phased out, perhaps it will never happen again. That would be good for the consumer as well as Eco-tech since based on their forum, they have their hands full already.

 

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11692669#post11692669 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sherm71tank
You don't want to discuss it, fine. I asked this question because of the heat generated by using a hole saw and the crazing you are trying to repair was caused by heat. Maybe a router could be used?

Routers are really hot too, but we will discuss this more today. When I routed the overflow, the acrylic got so hot it backfilled the slot and solidified. But it did not craze...the difference is there was no water pressure on the panel.