steventaylor702
New member
I agree with you. Some things work for others and they may not work for everyone
people who go with "almost" no Water Changes needed!
- Thread starter Enzel
- Start date
it is just as crazy to change 20% of the water every single week as it is to Never change it. moderation is key. I only change about 20% of my water every 8 months to a year on average.
Why do you think 20% a year is moderate;I think it's quite low ?Why wait for dust or green water?
Bigger tanks start to become self reliant and can handle going with out what changes on a regular basis as long as you keep up with supplements. But the smaller the tank is then regular water changes
Mine is 650 gallons and does it's best with regular small water changes.Why would water volume make a difference?
Why do you think 20% a year is moderate;I think it's quite low ?Why wait for dust or green water?
Bigger tanks start to become self reliant and can handle going with out what changes on a regular basis as long as you keep up with supplements. But the smaller the tank is then regular water changes
Mine is 650 gallons and does it's best with regular small water changes.Why would water volume make a difference?
So if someone does not want to do water changes and does not own a RO/DI system (it wont make sense, right?) what happens when things start to go bad? For e.g. if ammonia levels rise at night when the stores are closed, what happens? Can you wait till morning to get new water? I am curious as I would like to go down the no WC road if possible.
Just read all 17 pages, I am fascinated. I choose to do regular small changes, as my tank is new, and I can collect water from a warm clean ocean - plankton and all - which I figure just helps feed the little tunicates and whatnots. Maybe when I'm big and bad with a five year old tank, this will change..
FastUno
New member
No one mentions TOXINS from corals. I think they have the biggest impact on tank viability. Some of the toxins produced by corals are designed by nature to kill other coral. If your corals are healthy & don't leach then you are more likely to be in the rarely change tank water club.
Personally I have had the same tank that needed regular water changes and when everything stabilized again and then back on the infrequent water changes. Incidentally it was due to a large coral death, as a result of adding rock from another reefer.
Personally I have had the same tank that needed regular water changes and when everything stabilized again and then back on the infrequent water changes. Incidentally it was due to a large coral death, as a result of adding rock from another reefer.
Doing regular changed is no brainer and has always been the sensible way to go for most people.
But doing without is a challenge which can be done, providing you take control over you water parameters.
People get great result without water changes here in holland.
Why is it a challenge, first you need to learn the basis of water chemistry. By managing that you go a long way controlling the water parameter in a optimal way.
The greatest advantage for me is:
- no more messing around with the water barrels.
- no more carrying the heavy salt buckets.
- no more regular spending one part of the week preparing for new water.
- no more trouble with the wify, because regular water spils on the floor.
- spend less money on salt and more on corals, fish and aquarium gadget which are visible and ejoyable to me and my wife. I don't have to tell my wife i spend money at the lfs, but got nothing back for her to enjoy.
- more energy efficient and ecologic responsible for the environment. Transporting the water and salt bucket cost valueable fresh water and gasoline, only to be wasted down the drain weekly.
To go without water changes can be done succesful for a long period of time and by anyone why is willing to learn how to go about.
One thing you can't do, that is omit waterchanges and do nothing to compensate for it's function ......
unless you are openminded, going without water changes can't be done.
But doing without is a challenge which can be done, providing you take control over you water parameters.
People get great result without water changes here in holland.
Why is it a challenge, first you need to learn the basis of water chemistry. By managing that you go a long way controlling the water parameter in a optimal way.
The greatest advantage for me is:
- no more messing around with the water barrels.
- no more carrying the heavy salt buckets.
- no more regular spending one part of the week preparing for new water.
- no more trouble with the wify, because regular water spils on the floor.
- spend less money on salt and more on corals, fish and aquarium gadget which are visible and ejoyable to me and my wife. I don't have to tell my wife i spend money at the lfs, but got nothing back for her to enjoy.
- more energy efficient and ecologic responsible for the environment. Transporting the water and salt bucket cost valueable fresh water and gasoline, only to be wasted down the drain weekly.
To go without water changes can be done succesful for a long period of time and by anyone why is willing to learn how to go about.
One thing you can't do, that is omit waterchanges and do nothing to compensate for it's function ......
unless you are openminded, going without water changes can't be done.
edit, wrong thread 
steventaylor702
New member
Bingo you said everything I wanted to say
One thing you can't do, that is omit waterchanges and do nothing to compensate for it's function ....
I agree with that.
If you can make up all of the elements and ionic balances without water changes (which no one has to my knowlege) and account for export accomplished by water changes via variety of other filtration methods , then you are essentially changing everything you would change with a water change except the H2O.
What's the point of all that ? If it's the challenge ,then why not just make your own slat mix and reduce the variations from extensive chemical manipulation in the tank itself?
As for cost and effort, those are likely much higher if testing appropriately and maintaining all major,minor and trace elements and ratios without water changes. The costs for testiing kits and apparatuses alone would far outweigh the cost of some plain pure water.
I suppose it can be done with extraordinary effort and expense but don't see any benfit to it.
Calling folks who disagree with it as a practice closed minded is not helpful or accurate.
I agree with that.
If you can make up all of the elements and ionic balances without water changes (which no one has to my knowlege) and account for export accomplished by water changes via variety of other filtration methods , then you are essentially changing everything you would change with a water change except the H2O.
What's the point of all that ? If it's the challenge ,then why not just make your own slat mix and reduce the variations from extensive chemical manipulation in the tank itself?
As for cost and effort, those are likely much higher if testing appropriately and maintaining all major,minor and trace elements and ratios without water changes. The costs for testiing kits and apparatuses alone would far outweigh the cost of some plain pure water.
I suppose it can be done with extraordinary effort and expense but don't see any benfit to it.
Calling folks who disagree with it as a practice closed minded is not helpful or accurate.
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I'm in that same boat. 5 on a good year but typically less. I don't keep any SPS though but even if I did, I wouldn't change anymore I'd wager. I dose Mrs. Wages pickling lime though with my top off water from time to time.
And what if i told you i did manage all that? All your before mention hurdless i have overcome.
Mixing own salt, controlling ionic balance, controlling nutrients, etc.
Just controlling the 10 main parameters seems enough to benefit the inhabitants.
The cost of minerals and test needed is way lower than water changes, because you don't waste the mayority of your minerals down the sewer on weekly bases.
The effort needed is just a fraction of the time you need to manage a waterchange.
The only thing needed is a mind switch:
- It can be done.
- it take less effort and time than presumed
- it can be cheaper with lager tanks (300 liter up)
- it can be a more stable evironment when done properly
- you can get great result (no only zoa and soft coral tanks as usualy presumed)
Presuming it is beyound our reach and it will be far to expensive is just what i meant with close minded.
If you can't look further than the common accepted way, than you will not learn from a new point of vieuw.
I don't criticise nor try to offend anyone... so if what i write seems offending, it's not intended that way
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And what if i told you i did manage all that?
How do you manage accumulating heavy metals and organics?
How do you manage accumulating heavy metals and organics?
And what if i told you i did manage all that? All your before mention hurdless i have overcome.
I'd say ,I carefully read your original thread awhile back with an open mind seeking tidbits of knowlege and insight. There was no accounting for free metals organics as well as other gaps despite the use of numerous dosing pumps involved and a calcium reactor ,IIRC. My impression was the "method" was being promoted and not carefully examined with an open mind or explained.
I looked for the thread yesterday to discuss some specific examples. I learned from another more recent post of yours that it was removed due to a commercial interest of yours tied to it.
So I'd also say to other readers: "caveat emptor".
I'd say ,I carefully read your original thread awhile back with an open mind seeking tidbits of knowlege and insight. There was no accounting for free metals organics as well as other gaps despite the use of numerous dosing pumps involved and a calcium reactor ,IIRC. My impression was the "method" was being promoted and not carefully examined with an open mind or explained.
I looked for the thread yesterday to discuss some specific examples. I learned from another more recent post of yours that it was removed due to a commercial interest of yours tied to it.
So I'd also say to other readers: "caveat emptor".
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Do the ionic metals tend to bind with organic and inorganic ions and becaome less toxic/non toxic?
Many do, yes. Copper will be largely bound to organic matter. It is hard to say if that makes it more or less toxic for any given case, but copper seems less toxic in aquarium water than in artificial seawater, probably due to organic binding.
spamreefnew
New member
maybe by "aquarium water" he means water with lots of life in it (organics)? maybe the copper joins with that life/organics and is removed? and maybe in newly made ASW there is nothing for the copper to bond/join with?? no college here either,just an electrician like you paul lol lol
Paul,
I think artificial seawater in that post means mixed saltwater not yet put into the aquarium . Many of the salt mixes don't contain any organics for the metals to bind to ;some manufacturers list organics as an additive for this purpose. The aquarium water will be have organics from the life in it,food etc. Once bound free heavy metals are less toxic,.However,excess organics,total organic carbon, can be an issue for corals and some organics may degrade over time releasing the metals in certain conditions .
I think artificial seawater in that post means mixed saltwater not yet put into the aquarium . Many of the salt mixes don't contain any organics for the metals to bind to ;some manufacturers list organics as an additive for this purpose. The aquarium water will be have organics from the life in it,food etc. Once bound free heavy metals are less toxic,.However,excess organics,total organic carbon, can be an issue for corals and some organics may degrade over time releasing the metals in certain conditions .
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