Perry's 120 Gallon Reef

[mhucasey]

Mike,
Thanks buddy for a very gracious compliment, hopefully before next week I will have some new corals to share, I brought home a pinkish tenius yesterday, at least that is what it looks like, we shall see, lol...



Thanks Daniel,
I will be starting to move corals over in Feb, at this point, I will SLOWLY mount each one in the most ideal location possible. This will be based on lineage, color, and growth patterns. Hopefully I will be able to blend the corals with proper contrasting, fingers crossed anyway...



Ha, Ha, LOL...
Yeah, it is a pretty cool relationship that we are building, they respect me as I have always respected their biz practices... They reached out to me originally, it happened to be a week before the restaurant caught fire, so the timing was epic! Everyday they are like, here, take this and see what you can do with it, they also got me a DEAL on the AF stuff, so needless to say I am pretty stoked. How is the AF program going? The salt is pretty amazing, lot #, test analyst id, mixing ratios, and the salt mixed within 10 minutes using a MJ400 no stirring! I also smelled all the supps, I can tell the ingredients are lab grade for sure. None, including the NP Pro did not have any acetic acid smell, still have not got the Pro Bios S though. The coral food v definitely smells like vitamins and e had very distinct smell of foods that reminded me of CV or prodobio reef booster, just a few things that came to mind.

I am very happy with the AquaForest system so far, it's slowly pulling the nutrients down, the corals are healthy with great PE, and I'm just starting exploring the various additives. Every item from them exudes quality!

 

[plyle02]

Update:

I received a relatively large order of AF products yesterday as pictured Here is my initial program, based on 180 gallons and 1/2 recommended dosing or less to begin.

Media and use method:
1. AF Zeolites- 4 cups soaking in RODI- will be used in Vertex 1.5L Zeovit RX
2. AF Carbon- 2 cups heated for 15 minutes RODI- will be used on top of zeoites
3. Phos Minus- 1 cup run passive in sock, high flow area of sump
4. Siporax- 2L in media rx
Probiotic System:
1. Probiotic Salt(weekly 10gallons)
2. Bio S- as needed
3. Pro Bio S- 3 drops daily in AM
4. Pro Bio F- 2 spoons AM
5. NP Pro- 3 drops daily
Supps/Nutrition:
1. Coral E- 3 drops nightly
2. Coral B- 3 drops nightly
3. Coral V- 3 drops nightly
4. Salifert Aminos-1 ml every 3 days(used until empty, then Coral A to replace)
5. SPS Food- 2 spoons nightly
6. Fish V- 1 drop daily in frozen feeding

 

[mhucasey]

Update:

I received a relatively large order of AF products yesterday as pictured Here is my initial program, based on 180 gallons and 1/2 recommended dosing or less to begin.

Media and use method:
1. AF Zeolites- 4 cups soaking in RODI- will be used in Vertex 1.5L Zeovit RX
2. AF Carbon- 2 cups heated for 15 minutes RODI- will be used on top of zeoites
3. Phos Minus- 1 cup run passive in sock, high flow area of sump
4. Siporax- 2L in media rx
Probiotic System:
1. Probiotic Salt(weekly 10gallons)
2. Bio S- as needed
3. Pro Bio S- 3 drops daily in AM
4. Pro Bio F- 2 spoons AM
5. NP Pro- 3 drops daily
Supps/Nutrition:
1. Coral E- 3 drops nightly
2. Coral B- 3 drops nightly
3. Coral V- 3 drops nightly
4. Salifert Aminos-1 ml every 3 days(used until empty, then Coral A to replace)
5. SPS Food- 2 spoons nightly
6. Fish V- 1 drop daily in frozen feeding

I'd do half that much zeolites if I were you. I at 500g for 195 gallons and it's pretty close to perfect. I wouldn't use the Phosphate minus at all unless you have a high phosphate issue.

I wouldn't add the nutrition stuff for 1 to 2 weeks. When you do, hold off on the Coral E for a while. It has some Copper Sulphate in it for a zooxanthellae reducing effect. Make sure the corals are good and strong before dosing it.

All my opinion of course

 

[Myka]

I'd do half that much zeolites if I were you. I at 500g for 195 gallons and it's pretty close to perfect. I wouldn't use the Phosphate minus at all unless you have a high phosphate issue.

I wouldn't add the nutrition stuff for 1 to 2 weeks. When you do, hold off on the Coral E for a while. It has some Copper Sulphate in it for a zooxanthellae reducing effect. Make sure the corals are good and strong before dosing it.

All my opinion of course

I was actually logging in to post exactly what Matt did (he's reading my thoughts). YMMV since I haven't tried the products yet! Ha!

And Matt...get out of my mind.

 

[plyle02]

Matt and Myka,
I should have mentioned that this will likely be my dosing program, I may have went more on zeolites than needed. They are still soaking, as is the carbon. The only thing I have actually used so far is the fish v, and coral e. I have been using salifert aminos, so that will be continued. The coral e being mainly a nutritional supp, while it does have copper sulfate, the reef is used to a mild dose every few weeks of zeospur2, pretty sure that this is similar, but with nutrition for corals too. Anyway, only have put 3 drops in so far, so maybe I will pull back on it for now. Phos Minus in a sock, this is simply replacing phosban that was passive in a sock as well, it was 6 weeks old, so I will monitor and see. Thanks for the input, I am very appreciative for the advice and feedback. I will update when I go live with the zeolites.
Thank You

 

[glaukos]

When new products or "miracles" show up i'm always skeptic cause i have some "conspiracy fear" in the back of my mind
From what i see that's not the case regarding AF,at least from what i see and you share guys, so i'm seriously thinking(not that you care lol) to try them too

Is there any light/basic version with these products or you have to buy everything to get top results?
I've checked their site for info but i wasn't able to find something.

Perry your program includes all the products?

 

[plyle02]

Mike here are my thoughts on the system, FWIW
1. I believe the salt to be the core of the system, and from what I have seen, regardless if I discontinue the use of the AF system, I would still use their salt, very high quality.
2. I think having plenty of sand, live rock, and or/ addition of bacteria surface area is necessary, I am sand free in display and rock free in frag tank, for this, I decided on siporax and to go a bit heavy on zeolites(which are not necessary)
3. I understand that Pro Bio S, Pro Bio F, and NP Pro are the core of the ULNS. So if you want to keep nutrients very poor, these 3 seem to be the staple of the system.
4. GAC is pretty much recommended in all probiotic based systems, so it will be needed, the cost of their carbon is inline with other quality brands on the market.
5. Zeolites while not necessary, for me seem to serve a purpose of additional surface area, and can be run with carbon in same reactor, not necessary to disrupt daily like the zeovit system. Again, I am using due to my lack of sand and live rock in frag tank, my display has about 70lbs of very live rock.
6. Phos Minus-not necessary, I am going to use it passive in a sock, but only 1 cup for 180 gallon system. In the past 2 months I have had issues with algae in the display, also a bit of cyano, ultimately why I pulled the sand, so this product put my mind to ease from a PO4 standpoint.
7. The coral supplements and nutrition are not necessary, but again due to the low $, and the quality in the product, it is pretty much a no brainer. I have Salifert aminos, or I would be also using the Coral A, once my supply is depleted, I will use it. Each of the supps play a role in coral health, this was my decision to use most of them.

Side note: I am currently using Seachem's Reef Fusion 2 Part, the cost of AF 3 component system, mag being 3rd, is $6 cheaper than that of the 4L Reef Fusion online. The AF 3 part system includes the mag and is 5L, to me a no brainer to switch, once supplies deplete. The system works just fine with a CARX, so if that is employed, than you can scratch the 3 part system, based on balling method, at least I think...

Minerals and Trace- Like all probiotic based systems, it is preferred to keep NSW values for Alk, Ca, Mag, K, and S.G.
AF has a mineral and trace mineral system, I will likely use them in the future, again once supplies deplete. I currently use Salifert Hard Trace to cover all trace except, K, B, and I. Those I use the brightwell product. Trace minerals are of course linked to certain pigment coloration, so either way, using or not using their products, the measurements will need to be in NSW value, I supplement 5ML K per week, 5ML B per week, and 3ML I per week. I would imagine the saltwater change weekly with their salts will help too.
Matt may have more insight, he started the system 3 weeks ago, I am still not even online with certain products, but I have a pretty good understanding of the lineup at this point, I have been doing as much research as I can

 

[Wazzel]

Ditch the fusion and use the powdered version and save yourself some money. I use reef builder and reef advantage calcium and as far as I know they are the same stuff as reef fusion. You are just paying extra for water.

 

[plyle02]

I'd do half that much zeolites if I were you. I at 500g for 195 gallons and it's pretty close to perfect. I wouldn't use the Phosphate minus at all unless you have a high phosphate issue.

I wouldn't add the nutrition stuff for 1 to 2 weeks. When you do, hold off on the Coral E for a while. It has some Copper Sulphate in it for a zooxanthellae reducing effect. Make sure the corals are good and strong before dosing it.

All my opinion of course

Matt,
Decided on 3 cups, a bit more than you, but I have 70lbs rock in display, none in frag, and 40 gallon sump. so that is 120gallon, 60gallon frag, and 40 gallon sump 2/3 full. I use the live rock displacement to come up with roughly 180 gallons of water to treat/dosing. That being said, I think a bit more surface area is required, so will likely add more siporax and some rock into the frag tank down the line. Phos Minus will be used based on appearance of algaes in the tank, I think it is important to also preface that I have been running ULNS for weeks now, even with BB. Last test was NO3=0.2 and PO4=0.00 nitrates using salifert and phosphates using Hanna pocket meter.
The system was run using BW micro bacter, zeostart3(1ml per day) and the use of a huge mass of chaeto running reverse photo period of display. The chaeto was pulled yesterday. Also, while tearing down the display and the sand removal, I added the sock of phosban, this was to pull phosphate down. The algae, since removed from the display, was most certainly pulling phosphates, which my test did not detect. I feel I am simply converting one ULNS over to another, this factored into my dosing quantities for sure.

Side Note: chomping at the bit to see your colors improve, the last set of photos with the PE and the glowing colors were simply amazing, great stuff, and thanks again for the advice and feedback. Some people have a hard time taking advice, I assure you I am not one, so please give input as you see necessary.
Kind Regards,

 

[plyle02]

Ditch the fusion and use the powdered version and save yourself some money. I use reef builder and reef advantage calcium and as far as I know they are the same stuff as reef fusion. You are just paying extra for water.

Yes and No Mark...
Reef fusion is dosed at 54ml per day using this product. I switched to BRS and made it through 5 days, I still have tons of it sitting in the same box it was sent. My doser setting was not changed, I emptied the line with the fusion and converted to brs. After day 1 at 54ml, my alk dropped from 7.34 down to 6.2. I redid the schedule and bumped by 20ml. Did a test next day, same time, and again dropped 5.8. So I then thought, what the heck, I will dose 100ml, now nearly double what fusion was. Next day, the alk still did not sustain at 5.8, it again dropped to 5.6. I adjusted by 20ml and the next day it was 5.6, so long story short, at least for me, you get what you pay for. I do not want my doser spinning that frequently for a lower cost product. This just turned me off to the notion of switching, here is the reason why......... In 6 months of using it, I tested exactly the same for alk every time. I simply like having peace of mind, with alk being pretty much the most important parameter for sps, I do not mind paying a few extra bucks....
Hope all is well with you, and a delayed happy holidays and happy new year!

 

[Wazzel]

I use the powdered seachem products and get good results. I looked at the fusion system and it is way more expensive per dose. The powdered 2-part has the same stuff as the liquid.

Doing ok. Happy New year and all that to you too.

 

[plyle02]

I use the powdered seachem products and get good results. I looked at the fusion system and it is way more expensive per dose. The powdered 2-part has the same stuff as the liquid.

Doing ok. Happy New year and all that to you too.

Cool, I may have to look into that, I was just so annoyed when I did the switch to BRS to save money, just left a foul taste in my mouth, so I kind of told myself to go with what you know

 

[Myka]

Perry, I've experienced the same thing in regards to concentration. In my case, Tailored Aquatics dKH Plus compared to Fauna Marin and Tropic Marin Sodium bicarbonate. I mix both FM and TM to saturation, and still the TA product is way more concentrated (about double and a half by my loose calculation). You can tell just by pouring it in - if you dump in 5 mL TM or FM at saturation you don't get the same white cloud you do if you dump in 5 mL TA. I don't know how they do it. Maybe they mix at high temperature? Saturation is saturation though isn't it? I've never researched why this is.

 

[glaukos]

Mike here are my thoughts on the system, FWIW
1. I believe the salt to be the core of the system, and from what I have seen, regardless if I discontinue the use of the AF system, I would still use their salt, very high quality.
2. I think having plenty of sand, live rock, and or/ addition of bacteria surface area is necessary, I am sand free in display and rock free in frag tank, for this, I decided on siporax and to go a bit heavy on zeolites(which are not necessary)
3. I understand that Pro Bio S, Pro Bio F, and NP Pro are the core of the ULNS. So if you want to keep nutrients very poor, these 3 seem to be the staple of the system.
4. GAC is pretty much recommended in all probiotic based systems, so it will be needed, the cost of their carbon is inline with other quality brands on the market.
5. Zeolites while not necessary, for me seem to serve a purpose of additional surface area, and can be run with carbon in same reactor, not necessary to disrupt daily like the zeovit system. Again, I am using due to my lack of sand and live rock in frag tank, my display has about 70lbs of very live rock.
6. Phos Minus-not necessary, I am going to use it passive in a sock, but only 1 cup for 180 gallon system. In the past 2 months I have had issues with algae in the display, also a bit of cyano, ultimately why I pulled the sand, so this product put my mind to ease from a PO4 standpoint.
7. The coral supplements and nutrition are not necessary, but again due to the low $, and the quality in the product, it is pretty much a no brainer. I have Salifert aminos, or I would be also using the Coral A, once my supply is depleted, I will use it. Each of the supps play a role in coral health, this was my decision to use most of them.

Side note: I am currently using Seachem's Reef Fusion 2 Part, the cost of AF 3 component system, mag being 3rd, is $6 cheaper than that of the 4L Reef Fusion online. The AF 3 part system includes the mag and is 5L, to me a no brainer to switch, once supplies deplete. The system works just fine with a CARX, so if that is employed, than you can scratch the 3 part system, based on balling method, at least I think...

Minerals and Trace- Like all probiotic based systems, it is preferred to keep NSW values for Alk, Ca, Mag, K, and S.G.
AF has a mineral and trace mineral system, I will likely use them in the future, again once supplies deplete. I currently use Salifert Hard Trace to cover all trace except, K, B, and I. Those I use the brightwell product. Trace minerals are of course linked to certain pigment coloration, so either way, using or not using their products, the measurements will need to be in NSW value, I supplement 5ML K per week, 5ML B per week, and 3ML I per week. I would imagine the saltwater change weekly with their salts will help too.
Matt may have more insight, he started the system 3 weeks ago, I am still not even online with certain products, but I have a pretty good understanding of the lineup at this point, I have been doing as much research as I can

Thank you so much for that detailed answer perry:beer:

 

[plyle02]

Perry, I've experienced the same thing in regards to concentration. In my case, Tailored Aquatics dKH Plus compared to Fauna Marin and Tropic Marin Sodium bicarbonate. I mix both FM and TM to saturation, and still the TA product is way more concentrated (about double and a half by my loose calculation). You can tell just by pouring it in - if you dump in 5 mL TM or FM at saturation you don't get the same white cloud you do if you dump in 5 mL TA. I don't know how they do it. Maybe they mix at high temperature? Saturation is saturation though isn't it? I've never researched why this is.

Mindy,
I too am miffed by how these products can vary from one to another, I kind of missed Mark's point on use of the Seachem powder, and how the formula I am using is essentially the same stuff, just using your own RODI water vs. the dry mixed yourself. However, I do feel from brand to brand it is extremely important to monitor alk when changing, for this, I have just stuck with Reef Fusion for a year now, and I can only report great things from a stability standpoint. I will likely try the AF method and deal with the daily testing to lock it in, I will then stay with their 3 part.

 

[plyle02]

Anytime Mike,
You are very welcome, it is my pleasure

 

[plyle02]

Did some tinkering around today, I decided I did not like my new scape completely, I really thought I was hiding potential that some of my original rock scape had, so this is what I came up with, the bommie on the right side has lots of potential. Anyway, a few pics.

FTS:

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Right Side Island:

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Left Side with Shelf:

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[markalot]

Hi Perry,

I like it better. Not sure why, but it looks more, uh, inviting? I hate scaping.

Ah, I know. In the first pic the way the fish is in the trench there ... I've always liked that look.

 

[reefmutt]

I always like the islands and trench scape... Makes for nice overhanging coral growth potential.
And gives a sense of depth.
That ledge on the left is cool as well.

 

[plyle02]

Hi Perry,

I like it better. Not sure why, but it looks more, uh, inviting? I hate scaping.

Ah, I know. In the first pic the way the fish is in the trench there ... I've always liked that look.

Thanks Mark, I liked the other scape, but this opens things up a bit, and not detritus settling under, or behind any of the rocks, I do however have a tidy little pile that builds up in the center of trench, so it should be pretty easy to siphon out every couple of days.
Thanks again

I always like the islands and trench scape... Makes for nice overhanging coral growth potential.
And gives a sense of depth.
That ledge on the left is cool as well.

Thanks Matt! As you can see, I have left the entire top and most sides free for acros, I have quite a bit going on in the frag tank, 30 frags added in the other day, so it is filling up quickly with the acro colonies still in there, lol...