pH problem for over 1 yr... Help please

J

jabel

New member
I've been battling low pH issues for over a year and just when I think I've got it figured out I start having issues again. Here's my range for the last week or so: 7.7 to 8.06. Every time I seem to go low my sps get burned. Not all but over half. I've lost multiple colonies of this last year and its getting depressing. Any advise would be much appreciated.
Background:
225g tank with 40g water in sump
3 x 400w MH on for 7.5 hrs (4:30 - 12)
refugium with chaeto and opposite light cycle
frag growout section in sump w/ 250w MH for 11 hrs (during main tank dark)
Skimmer: BM 250, air intake outside
Dual chamber cacium reactor: pH 6.46, alk 28dkh
Kalk reactor for top off
New pH probe, calibrated 3 times just to make sure.

Parameters:
Kalk: 11 dkh, 2 test kits
Ca: 440
Salinity: 33ppm
MG: 1350
Nothing else measurable

Advise, suggestions, anything.
Jeff
 
To me, your PH range doesn't appear to be bad. Mine ran in that range for years. I would look for some other cause(s). Your alk is a little on the high side for me. How much alk are you dosing, what product, all at once or spread out? If you are dosing a large amount at one time, it could burn your corals. Likewise if your dosing soda ash you could be spiking your ph, causing problems. how much kalk are you dosing, at the same time as your alk?
 
According to D&D H2 Ocean Pro Salt, Those #'s KH 11 and Ca of 440 would be correct balance of KH against Ca if the Salinity is @ 1.025. They reccommend keeping Ca between 400-420 verses 440 FYI as it will precipitate and drop out of solution when that high.
This info is right off their mixing instructions and just wanted to share this info.
Bill
 
I agree with jimsplace...my pH is in that range too without any problems. I don't get to 7.7 often, but almost every night hit 7.8.

Are you dumping your CA reactor output directly into your skimmer input? I did that and saw an almost across the board increase in pH of .05.
 
jimsplace: Not dosing anything other than running my topoff water through my kalk reactor. In the summer I've going through about 5g per day. My ca reactor takes care of the the ca and alk. I've tried running lower alk levels and my pH swing is bigger. I only seem to have problems when my pH goes low. If its something else I've never been able to figure it out.

zoolan70: Yes, the outlet of my reactor is right next to my skimmer intake. I've never really noticed a difference in pH.


Fish'InMN: I open my windows and use fans every night to cool the house off. According to all of the threads and articles there is too much CO2 in my tank, but I can't figure out how to get better gas exchange. Of coarse I have to close up the house everyday because its way too hot, but I can't believe that the CO2 level increases that quickly. That's why I hooked up my skimmer air intake outside. It seemed to help a little initially, but not lately.

Thanks for the replies, still stumped.
 
Has the skimmer been cleaned lately? I'd get a second opinion on the pH measurement, too.

I'd try aerating a cup of water outside for a few hours, and then measure the pH. Then, repeat the aeration step with a cup of water in the tank room. That should tell where the carbon dioxide is building up, or whether there might be a measurement problem.

I agree that the pH isn't that bad, and I wouldn't expect it to be a problem.
 
My pH is habitually hovering around 7.8's. Ive tried all the tricks, lime water, open windows w/fans, keeping water params as ideal as possible...none of them will raise my pH above 8.0 for any decent period of time. Ive measured it with titration kits, and a pH probe and both measures correlate.

Im feeling your pain OP, but so far its been like this for 2+ years and there has yet to be a problem with fish or coral.
 
bertoni: the pumps have only because they tend to have problems. I also have a 2nd pH meter and it gives me similar readings. I've never tried the indoor/outdoor thing cause I don't have an air pump. I'll have to try this and post results.
Not sure what else it could be other than pH. I do regular water changes and can't seem to find any thing bad in the tank. Its very frustrating and expensive.
Thanks.
 
1DeR9_3Hy: thanks for the support. I wish I could find something else to blame the sps death on. Its weird, becuae I have a couple colonies that don't seem to mind at all but everything else slowly dies at the tips and onward. I had a green slimer colony for several years that was probably 2 ft by 1 ft and it just recently died.

If you have any other suggestions for what to check let me know,
Jeff
 
jabel said:
1DeR9_3Hy: thanks for the support. I wish I could find something else to blame the sps death on. Its weird, becuae I have a couple colonies that don't seem to mind at all but everything else slowly dies at the tips and onward. I had a green slimer colony for several years that was probably 2 ft by 1 ft and it just recently died.

If you have any other suggestions for what to check let me know,
Jeff
Click to expand...

Assuming you have a skimmer, i have seen and heard that those Co2 scrubbers work for the air intake tubes on the skimmers. Thats also assuming pH is even the problem here.

Sometimes things just happen in this hobby, and the result is all we know.
 
You could try running a PolyFilter, which would help with any possible metal problems.

You might also try a different brand of pH calibration solutions, or work with the meter away from the tank. Some calibration solutions aren't all that good:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-02/rhf/index.htm

Also, electrical interference can be a significant issue with some meters, including mine.

What's going into the system? RO/DI water? Supplements?
 
I would shut the calcium reactor down or lower its output. keep the kalk reactor running. Tanks with calcium reactors can have low overall pH. The high alk is what might be burning your sps. Drop the alk to 8-9dkh. See if this works.
 
running your venturi outside wont do much to raise ph. try a CO2 scrubber. take a glass of tank water outside and airate it see if ph come up to 8.0 or above after 4hrs. if so get the scrubber.
 
Bouncy alkalinity can hurt sps ,ime . Are both reactors working smoothly? Does the kalk reactor dose cloudy water? How about the calcium reactor media ; could it have toxins of some sort in it? Drops in alk would go along with drops in ph in some cases.

Keeping alk relatively constant is critical for sps in my experience. Ph is secondary when in range ,ie 7.8 to 8.4 or so. However, I prefer to get 8.2/3, nsw values and have observed better growth and polyp extension when the ph is in this range in my system..

I've picked up .2 units in ph from 7.9 / 8.1 daily to 8.1 /8.3 with a diy CO2 scrubber built from a juice bottle with slats cut in the bottom and a hose connected to the top to which the skimmer air hose is fitted.. Basically , you pass the air feeding the skimmer through soda lime thus removing the CO2 from the air going into the skimmer venturi. It also quiets the skimmer air intake noise. No need to mess with alk dosing to enhance ph ;just CO2 free air.
 
Fishtastic: Good suggestion. I think you're talking about the outlet from the ca reactor. I've tried out of the water or in the water near the skimmer intake, no difference.

1DeR9_3Hy: Thanks. I'm defenitely thinking about trying this.

bertoni: tried poly filter a while back and nothing. I could try again. I'm sure my probe is calibrated correctly. I work in a lab and have access to multiple meters and calibration solutions. I'll calibrate again just to make sure though. Thanks. Only RODI into system. Nothing else

Percula9: I'm going to try this. I've turned down my ca reactor to see what happens. I'll continue to monitor ca and alk too.

badwrasse: Another suggestion for scrubber. I'll have to look into this over the weekend.

tmz: My alk is steady all day and I've tested tons. Just the pH bounces around. Where do I get the media for the scrubber?

Thanks everyone. I have to try airiating the water outside and then the scrubber. I'll let you know what happens. Other suggestions are welcome.
Jeff
 
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