PLEASE check out your intended fish purchases here first!

[snorvich]

Hope this is appropriate to post here, based on your comment above:
When I skip a day of Nori, my Kole seems to hassle my One-Spot Foxface. Is this a potential reason?
(My tank is also a 75).

Michael

You have two fish that eat constantly; algae eaters eat constantly because they process food so inefficiently. Your tank is not of sufficient size to sustain both so unless Nori is constantly supplied, one or the other will hassle the other. Also, a foxface is not coral safe if hungry. It will eat zooxanthellae contained in LPS corals in order to get that algae requirement satisfied. That is one reason why tank size is so critical when keeping algae eating fish.

 

[mpderksen]

I see. So watch their behavior and if aggression or coral damage or begins, remove one of them.

 

[snorvich]

I see. So watch their behavior and if aggression or coral damage or begins, remove one of them.

Well that is one solution. The other is to keep Nori constantly available. Grazers do not do well with food supplied once a day.

 

[jaimelea]

okay! so i currently have a occelaris pair of clown fish, a hermit crab, a toadstool coral and a button polyp frag. right now im cycling a 28G tank , so far it has live sand 30 lbs of live rock and for equipment it has a 150 penguin bio-wheel filter, a 100 watt elheim heater and a 24" aquaticlife T5 H0 dual lamp light fixture.
im a newbie so tell me if i need more equipment and dumb it down cuz im still new to the forum and dont know most of the lingo yet haha
but for this tank i would like to have:
mixed coral
a sand sifting goby
yellow tang
snails
and my exsisting clown fish, coral ,etc.
thats all i'm planning so far for this tank what do you think?

 

[mpderksen]

Well that is one solution. The other is to keep Nori constantly available. Grazers do not do well with food supplied once a day.

The piece of nori lasts most of the day, I also drop in pellets mid-day and rinsed PE Mysis in the evening. apex auto feeder comes next week.
In terms of this thread, I'm trying to maintain compatibility for the long haul. Though this has gone a bit off topic so. Will post additional comments to the main forum if I have further questions.

 

[snorvich]

okay! so i currently have a occelaris pair of clown fish, a hermit crab, a toadstool coral and a button polyp frag. right now im cycling a 28G tank , so far it has live sand 30 lbs of live rock and for equipment it has a 150 penguin bio-wheel filter, a 100 watt elheim heater and a 24" aquaticlife T5 H0 dual lamp light fixture.
im a newbie so tell me if i need more equipment and dumb it down cuz im still new to the forum and dont know most of the lingo yet haha
but for this tank i would like to have:
mixed coral
a sand sifting goby
yellow tang Any tang needs a much larger tank
snails
and my exsisting clown fish, coral ,etc.
thats all i'm planning so far for this tank what do you think?

Otherwise fine except as noted

 

[BSAJim]

Potential fish capcity

Potential fish capcity

Friends,

Forgive a newbie question. I am seeing very different guidance on determining the fish capacity of a tank, most based on varying "inches of fish" per 10g of tank. In addition to wide ranging ration (1" per 10g up to 5" per 10g) in know that all fish are not equal. Tangs are ammonia factories, and gobies are not.

And so, I am seeking some guidance on the maximum capacity of my tank (not that I actually want to get there, but want to avoid going over).

I have a 110g tank with 100lbs of rock and a 1" sandbed (tank is starting week 3 of a no-fish cycle). I have a 30g sump with a Vertex Omega 150, a regugium, and 2q of MarinePure bioballs as a pre-filter to the return pump.

I like small schooling fish (chromis, anthias, etc) over the larger show fish (tangs, rabbits, etc).

I do plan on adding corals.

Before I get to the main question let me say 1) all fish will be going through a QT, and 2) I would never add a large number of fish at one time, but increase the bioload over time.

I call upon the wisdom and experience of my fellow reefers. Using a 2" chromis as a standard measure, how many fish do you estimate my setup could support?

With thanks,

Jim

 

[snorvich]

Friends,

Forgive a newbie question. I am seeing very different guidance on determining the fish capacity of a tank, most based on varying "inches of fish" per 10g of tank. In addition to wide ranging ration (1" per 10g up to 5" per 10g) in know that all fish are not equal. Tangs are ammonia factories, and gobies are not.

And so, I am seeking some guidance on the maximum capacity of my tank (not that I actually want to get there, but want to avoid going over).

I have a 110g tank with 100lbs of rock and a 1" sandbed (tank is starting week 3 of a no-fish cycle). I have a 30g sump with a Vertex Omega 150, a regugium, and 2q of MarinePure bioballs as a pre-filter to the return pump.

I like small schooling fish (chromis, anthias, etc) over the larger show fish (tangs, rabbits, etc).

I do plan on adding corals.

Before I get to the main question let me say 1) all fish will be going through a QT, and 2) I would never add a large number of fish at one time, but increase the bioload over time.

I call upon the wisdom and experience of my fellow reefers. Using a 2" chromis as a standard measure, how many fish do you estimate my setup could support?

With thanks,

Jim

Since this thread is answered only by me, if you want general opinions, post your question in Reef Fish. However, I have been doing this a long time, so perhaps my opinion will be useful to you.

Fish Capacity of a tank is an incredibly difficult issue to ascertain since there are a huge number of factors and unfortunately they tend to be taken together. More of an art, than a science.

Eating efficiency. Some algae eaters (such as tangs, rabbit fish) process food poorly and have to eat a lot, actually constantly. In this case tank size is critical as it means sufficient food is available. Some copepod grazers eat constantly and primarily subsist on grazing rather than once or twice a day feedings. Again, tank size, and no competitors is critical.

Behavioral Issues. Fish have differing territorial imperatives. Open ocean fish such as Naso species tangs, have a greater need for tank length than they do for tank volume. However large angels need large tanks and are intolerant of other large angels and need to be boss of the tank. Some fish, such as Sohal tangs, clown tangs, various triggerfish are inherently mean and kill fish if kept in tanks which are "too small". Some fish are naturally social, such as anthias, so groups can be kept assuming tanks which are long enough; some fish, such as chromis (most, but not all species) are naturally antisocial long term and will winnow down their number to one or at most a pair.

Fish size. Keeping a large fish in a small tank causes them to "pace" and this drives the viewer as well as the fish crazy. And of course, it makes the tank look small.

There is no inches per volume or other similar type metric. It is a function of matching the factors above to the environment being provided. Perhaps that is why this particular thread is so popular having had more than a half million views.

 

[BSAJim]

Steve,

thanks for the rapid reply. This is a valuable insight on the topic. Perhaps it can be expanded a bit and made sticky?

Jim

 

[snorvich]

Steve,

thanks for the rapid reply. This is a valuable insight on the topic. Perhaps it can be expanded a bit and made sticky?

Jim

In the post above, I provided a very (overly) generalized discussion. A while ago, I tried to write up a document similar to the stickies in the Fish Disease Forum on this topic. It turns out, it is like doing a linear program (sorry for the engineering analogy) with various constraints, one of which turns out to be the binding constraint. It is highly dependent on the interaction of which fish, what tank size, what tank maturity level, is being provided. Usually, the binding constraint is fish behavior, however. Let me ponder that a bit more (about doing a sticky).

 

[snorvich]

Steve,

thanks for the rapid reply. This is a valuable insight on the topic. Perhaps it can be expanded a bit and made sticky?

Jim

Let me refer you to this thread.

 

[firemountain]

Steve,

I have a 65g mixed reef, with a mated pair of O. Clowns, 3 cleaner shrimp, and a small CUC. I also have a Gold Assessor Basslet in QT that will go into my DT in a few weeks.

I am looking to add the following fish in the long term.....Helfrichi firefish, Kole Tang, a Lyretail Anthias, and possibly a Mandarin.

I have a few concerns...

- assuming all of the intended fish purchases are compatible, which I believe they are, is there an order on which fish I introduce first? I have a feeling that my female clown is gonna be bit of a bully since they are the only fish in the tank now. I am thinking the firefish first, since the clown can't fit into some of the rock work I have, and would provide a safe haven for the firefish.

- with my Gold Assessor being a bit of a cave dweller, am I gonna have a problem with introducing the firefish, and possibly the Anthias?

- I run a minimum sand bed @ 1.5 - 2 inches. Is that enough for the firefish?

The tank is secure, so I am not too concerned with jumpers. My clowns take up the rear left side corner of the tank, next to a fire shrimp, and a piece of rock work. My caves are in the middle and sides, so at least its at some distance from where the clowns normally hand out.

 

[snorvich]

Steve,

I have a 65g mixed reef, with a mated pair of O. Clowns, 3 cleaner shrimp, and a small CUC. I also have a Gold Assessor Basslet in QT that will go into my DT in a few weeks.

I am looking to add the following fish in the long term.....Helfrichi firefish, Kole Tang, a Lyretail Anthias, and possibly a Mandarin.

All are behaviorally compatible, the mandarin's sustainability is problematic in this sized tank. Marginal at best.

I have a few concerns...

- assuming all of the intended fish purchases are compatible, which I believe they are, is there an order on which fish I introduce first? I have a feeling that my female clown is gonna be bit of a bully since they are the only fish in the tank now.

A sexually mature pair of A. ocellaris will want to control approximately 25 gallons of tank space.

I am thinking the firefish first, since the clown can't fit into some of the rock work I have, and would provide a safe haven for the firefish.

- with my Gold Assessor being a bit of a cave dweller, am I gonna have a problem with introducing the firefish, and possibly the Anthias?

None of the three fish will really interact

- I run a minimum sand bed @ 1.5 - 2 inches. Is that enough for the firefish?

firefish do not require a sand bed

 

[AquariumCA]

Hi,

I have the following setup and was wondering what kinds of fish I should keep. I love tangs and wanted to know what type of tangs I can keep together. I know 90 gallon might be too small for tangs but I am going for small size (baby) tangs and will move them to a bigger tank (hopefully 300 gallon).

- 90 Gallon
--- 120 pound live rock
--- Fiji pink live sand
--- Current USA 48-60" fixture
--- Aquatic Life T5HO

- 40 Gallon Sump
--- 20 gallon refugium
------- 30 pound liverock
------- Fiji pink live sand
--- Reef Octopus INT 150 Skimmer

- Current Live stock/inverts
--- 2 Clown fish
--- Small Yellow Tang
--- Dozen small hermit crabs
--- 4 Star Fish
--- Dozen of corals
--- Cleaner Shrimp
--- Pistol Shrimp


Here is what I want to keep.Let me know which are possible/impossible and suggest any that will be good.
- 2 Clown fish (Already have them)
- Yellow Tang - small - (Already have it)
- Tomini Tang - small
- Blue Regal Tang - small
- Watchman Gobi (for my pistol shrimp)
- Scopas tang - small (Not sure if this is a good idea as yellow tang is alike)
- Desjardini Sailfin Tang
- Banggai Cardinalfish


Thank you for your help

 

[snorvich]

Hi,

I have the following setup and was wondering what kinds of fish I should keep. I love tangs and wanted to know what type of tangs I can keep together. I know 90 gallon might be too small for tangs but I am going for small size (baby) tangs and will move them to a bigger tank (hopefully 300 gallon).

- 90 Gallon
--- 120 pound live rock
--- Fiji pink live sand
--- Current USA 48-60" fixture
--- Aquatic Life T5HO

- 40 Gallon Sump
--- 20 gallon refugium
------- 30 pound liverock
------- Fiji pink live sand
--- Reef Octopus INT 150 Skimmer

- Current Live stock/inverts
--- 2 Clown fish
--- Small Yellow Tang long term needs a larger tank
--- Dozen small hermit crabs
--- 4 Star Fish
--- Dozen of corals
--- Cleaner Shrimp
--- Pistol Shrimp


Here is what I want to keep.Let me know which are possible/impossible and suggest any that will be good.
- 2 Clown fish (Already have them)
- Yellow Tang - small - (Already have it)
- Tomini Tang - small You cannot keep two tangs of any size in this sized tank
- Blue Regal Tang - small needs a much larger tank
- Watchman Gobi (for my pistol shrimp)
- Scopas tang - small (Not sure if this is a good idea as yellow tang is alike)
- Desjardini Sailfin Tang
- Banggai Cardinalfish

To keep all of those tangs, you will need a 8 foot 240 gallon tank minimum and preferably a 10 foot tank. Since none of these tangs are difficult to acquire, stick with the one existing tang (even though it needs a larger tank) until you have an established large tank.
Thank you for your help

 

[firemountain]

Thanks Steve!! I kinda figured the Mandarin was a long shot...wishful thinking on my part.

Thanks for the clarification on the firefish, I thought I remember reading somewhere that firefish liked to burrow and needed a sand-bed.

 

[snorvich]

Thanks Steve!! I kinda figured the Mandarin was a long shot...wishful thinking on my part.

Thanks for the clarification on the firefish, I thought I remember reading on LA/DD that firefish liked to burrow and needed a sand-bed.

No, they will find a "bolt hole" that will become their home and then pretty much stay close to it. Depending on how secure they feel in a tank will dictate the distance they venture from their home. As a planktonic feeder that takes food from the water column, they like some flow past their home.

 

[joshbrookkate]

Ok. One more question about the clowns. If I get no more fish in my 75 gal and each pair is hosting different anemones, would I have a better chance for them to coexist? Would a bigger tank with no more fish help? I do love both pairs so if I can make it work I will. But ultimately, I want to do what is best for them so your advice, please.

 

[snorvich]

Ok. One more question about the clowns. If I get no more fish in my 75 gal and each pair is hosting different anemones, would I have a better chance for them to coexist? Would a bigger tank with no more fish help? I do love both pairs so if I can make it work I will. But ultimately, I want to do what is best for them so your advice, please.

IMO, in your sized tank, once they are sexually mature, there is no way it will work.

 

[joshbrookkate]

Got it! I'll have flip a coin to see who goes. It'll be hard but the right thing to do. I'm too new at this to take a chance. Thanks.