please take a look and join, if you're on fb and disgusted w/ the show 'tanked'

[Railcar79]

In the end it doesn't matter what any of us think or say. They will continue to harvest fish from the ocean, reefers will drive the continuing destruction of reefs to get that new coral for their collection, millions of fish will die because some expert told them the wrong way to keep something in their tank, and people will fight over a tv show

 

[breiter3]

Fish Rights Activists lol. This thread just keeps on giving!

 

[vitz]

I dont want to ruffle any feathers, but there is nothing noble about plucking fish and invertibrates and shoving them in a box. Even the largest aquarium with the best equipment cant do what mother nature does. We all do our best to make sure our stock thrives, but people upset about Tanked should take a step back and really think. Its easy to sit and knock on Tanked for fish deaths, but what about all the livestock lost during hobbyist error, shipping from distributor to lfs, and after being captured and held. I dont see the OP pulling his hair out and beating on any of that.

The OP is just armchair activist.

actually, the op isn't really a self declared activist of any kind, nor is he an 'armchair' anything

i know the show misrepresents the hobby, the industry, and what's involved, w/ both, to the point of un-necessarily wasting a valuable natural resource for a few dozens of people's wallets. kinda like a puppy mill sponsoring a dog grooming show on pbs, or an abortion clinic giving out classes in infant care. it's obscene.

all i've really done is voice my opinion that it should be taken of the air, and asked any of a liked mind, to join in expressing that opinion.

many of you seem to be making the assumption that i expect my action to have any concrete, tangible results. it's a bit laughable that any assumptions about what my expectations are, are even being assumed/thought about. that's 'all y'alls' silly conjecture

(and i have enough of a background in wholesale, retail, and the hobby to be able to discern between the realities of the hobby and industry, and the fantasy that are the 'reality' aquarium themed shows, among which are having worked for one of 'tanked's suppliers for a few yrs, heh ).

2 clowns that know how to work very well w/ acrylic and aquarium building want their 15 min of fortune and fame. fine by me. do it honestly. don't have your finished product leave the distinct impression that the home husbandry and acquisition of these animals is something it's not. very simple concept here.

'animal planet' is a whole other ball of wax, and one of dozens of garbage pipelines that never should have made it to the 'ether', like infomercials, qvc, and fox news.and tlc. and bravo. and leno.

it's my opinion folks-you think it's silly? fine by me. no one's holding a gun to your head to go visit fakeboo.

i'm also a tad flattered that my opinions and (unknown/possibly nonexistent) motives/thoughts interest some of you so much that you're compelled to state strong opinions on something you know nothing about at all, heh (above mentioned motives/thought). it's enlightening, and made my evening.

and, 'just clownin', as some here on this bb know, i most certainly have 'beaten my hairy chest' on certain issues that pertain to this hobby, and have been directly involved in trying to change or effect those things through both action and public rhetoric/participation.(including working for a non profit coral conservation group.and many heated threads in rdo's industry forum around '03 and onwards. i've also helped dogs, btw so i'd ask you make a small effort to refrain from the absolutely ignorant commentary on what you think you know about other people you're commenting on. it would help you score debate points

don't ever forget that your box's inhabitants ultimately came from an ocean that isn't going to be able to keep those creatures alive for much longer-to see them squandered so blatantly, and with the 'blessing' of a 'network' by the name of 'animal planet' isn't exactly something i'd call 'trivial', at any rate.

everyone has their particular pet peeves and causes. the reaction of most of you to the same level of commentary made by many on this thread towards an issue *i* happen to think worthwhile , to any of importance to y'all , would be interesting indeed, i'll bet

even more interesting is the apparent sentiment by some that since an issue isn't likely going to get resolved by expressing an idea, one shouldn't express that idea. or that expressing it is therefore laughable, as it's the end outcome only that validates the idea/behavior/'activism'. wow. what would rosa parks have done ? (not to make my issue analogous at all-but you hopefully get the point).

i hope i've been able to clarify a few things that seem to be confusing some here if not, tough.

 

[vitz]

Obviously you've never worked in a LFS. That sort of scenario plays out all too often

i've personally witnessed dozens of poor saps take sw fish home and put 'em in fw. often it's the lfs simply assuming the person asking for a clown or butterfly has prior knowledge, and that a very reasonable assumption to often make. it's also simply impossible to ask every single customer if they do indeed know.



asking is something i try to do always, with tact, usually prefaced w/a 'please don't take offense, i'm just trying to get a handle on your experience level so i don't waste your time w/ basics if not needed' kinda thing,but that's only because i came aware a long time ago that people actually buy animals w/out knowing a damn thing about 'em all the time-and not just fish or hamsters from an lfs, heh. crap, i did it-it's how i started in this as a 7 yr old.

 

[jimmy frag]

actually, the op isn't really a self declared activist of any kind, nor is he an 'armchair' anything

i know the show misrepresents the hobby, the industry, and what's involved, w/ both, to the point of un-necessarily wasting a valuable natural resource for a few dozens of people's wallets. kinda like a puppy mill sponsoring a dog grooming show on pbs, or an abortion clinic giving out classes in infant care. it's obscene.

all i've really done is voice my opinion that it should be taken of the air, and asked any of a liked mind, to join in expressing that opinion.

many of you seem to be making the assumption that i expect my action to have any concrete, tangible results. it's a bit laughable that any assumptions about what my expectations are, are even being assumed/thought about. that's 'all y'alls' silly conjecture

(and i have enough of a background in wholesale, retail, and the hobby to be able to discern between the realities of the hobby and industry, and the fantasy that are the 'reality' aquarium themed shows, among which are having worked for one of 'tanked's suppliers for a few yrs, heh ).

2 clowns that know how to work very well w/ acrylic and aquarium building want their 15 min of fortune and fame. fine by me. do it honestly. don't have your finished product leave the distinct impression that the home husbandry and acquisition of these animals is something it's not. very simple concept here.

'animal planet' is a whole other ball of wax, and one of dozens of garbage pipelines that never should have made it to the 'ether', like infomercials, qvc, and fox news.and tlc. and bravo. and leno.

it's my opinion folks-you think it's silly? fine by me. no one's holding a gun to your head to go visit fakeboo.

i'm also a tad flattered that my opinions and (unknown/possibly nonexistent) motives/thoughts interest some of you so much that you're compelled to state strong opinions on something you know nothing about at all, heh (above mentioned motives/thought). it's enlightening, and made my evening.

and, 'just clownin', as some here on this bb know, i most certainly have 'beaten my hairy chest' on certain issues that pertain to this hobby, and have been directly involved in trying to change or effect those things through both action and public rhetoric/participation.(including working for a non profit coral conservation group.and many heated threads in rdo's industry forum around '03 and onwards. i've also helped dogs, btw so i'd ask you make a small effort to refrain from the absolutely ignorant commentary on what you think you know about other people you're commenting on. it would help you score debate points

don't ever forget that your box's inhabitants ultimately came from an ocean that isn't going to be able to keep those creatures alive for much longer-to see them squandered so blatantly, and with the 'blessing' of a 'network' by the name of 'animal planet' isn't exactly something i'd call 'trivial', at any rate.

everyone has their particular pet peeves and causes. the reaction of most of you to the same level of commentary made by many on this thread towards an issue *i* happen to think worthwhile , to any of importance to y'all , would be interesting indeed, i'll bet

even more interesting is the apparent sentiment by some that since an issue isn't likely going to get resolved by expressing an idea, one shouldn't express that idea. or that expressing it is therefore laughable, as it's the end outcome only that validates the idea/behavior/'activism'. wow. what would rosa parks have done ? (not to make my issue analogous at all-but you hopefully get the point).

i hope i've been able to clarify a few things that seem to be confusing some here if not, tough.

your not comparing yourself to rosa parks are you ?

 

[vitz]

Fish Rights Activists lol. This thread just keeps on giving!

indeed! here you are, voicing your opinon! :thumbsup:

 

[vitz]

In the end it doesn't matter what any of us think or say. They will continue to harvest fish from the ocean, reefers will drive the continuing destruction of reefs to get that new coral for their collection, millions of fish will die because some expert told them the wrong way to keep something in their tank, and people will fight over a tv show

who's fighting ?

and where do you draw the conclusion that reefers drive the continuing destruction of reefs. reefers have never been anything more than a drop in the proverbial bucket, a minor nuisance, compared to ALL of the real and major threats that have been slowly killing the reefs for decades if not centuries.

the relatively miniscule part the sw ornamental industry had in reef decline was attempted to be mitigated by the very hobby and industry that caused it (cyanide use and dynamite fishing), albeit rather unsuccessfully and for a relatively short period. partly due, unfortunately, to that ridiculous farce known as 'mac' that derailed the movement and squandered so much for so few to gain so personally.mostly due to lack of any political will on the industry's/hobbyist's part.

 

[vitz]

your not comparing yourself to rosa parks are you ?

i wrote:

(not to make my issue analogous at all-but you hopefully get the point).

i guess something just whizzed right past your head (the point). please read a post before you respond to it.

 

[jimmy frag]

i wrote:



I guess something just whizzed right past your head (the point). Please read a post before you respond to it.

lolololol

 

[vitz]

I have read this thread and the argument is the same on the other 100 threads here. Fish have died, big deal happens all the time, the LFS has dead loss all the time, so do chains, and even live aquaria. Everyone knows they overatock for the reveal cause a properly stocked tank does not show well on tv, the maintnence company is responsible for the fish, and the aquarium after reveal, and our hobby is boring as hell to watch on tv. The "miracle in a bottle" products do work if you follow the directions properly, and I really don't care that you think you are an expert. All the drama on banning the show just shows that you want the hobby to be back where it was in the 70s and 80s. If we ban people from handling fish because of dead loss alone, ORA, and BlueZoo should be on the list too, they lose thousands of fish every year.

there are many people who should be banned from handling animals of many kinds-from the perspective of one who cares about those animals for 'their sake'. and yes-if doa/daa were a criteria used, most of the m.o. biz would be shut down, for mere waste and lack of respect for the value of a dollar, to say nothing of the lack of respect to a natural resource.

do you think this is where i was going? because most of the points you seem to be making have nothing to do w/ anything i've posted on this entire bb.

you completely missed the point about the 'miracle in a bottle' arguments as well, btw.

i was around in this hobby working in an lfs in the '70's, and know exactly what it was like. were you ? (i remember a thriving 125 reef display tank at 'biill's wonderland of pets' in magnolia nj on the white horse pike circa '78-79 that was beautiful by today's standards, and i was reading up on how to hopefully breed clownfish, and had some 'bonded' pairs of peridarion (sp) clowns, along with growing red tree sponges and macros to sell back through the store).

those 'primitive days' weren't nearly as primitive or selection limited as you might think, and the tanks weren't even black and white, although our tv's were! people were spawning damsels and keeping coral well before the '70's, bubbeleh

you've read 100 threads that all say the same thing and you both keep reading AND respond to them ? why ?

everywhere i've ever worked i've contributed significantly to cutting mortality losses. sometimes dramatically. i personally think it's a basic moral imperative to not only treat the wild w/ some basic respect, but also to correct the disrespect when and if we can, the way we can. some folks join greenpeace, or give to foundations. some just educate directly through our involvement w/ customers in the biz, like me.

and i really don't care that you don't care that i think i'm an expert.(heh). but since you brought it up....

tropical fw/sw closed system husbandry/setup/maintenance from small (nano) to large scale (commercial hatchery management) is one the very few things i'm actually a real expert in. all taught from vary varied direct experience, tons of self motivated research, school of hard knocks... i don't need *you* to validate that, lol.

 

[vitz]

They don't pretend to be. They have stated that they have no interest in any of that stuff. They are making a TV show that A) makes them money and B) promotes/expands their business. All they are interested in is making tanks, selling products and entertaining. That's it. To expect otherwise is naive and unrealistic.



The blame is horribly misplaced here. It isn't the fault of the television show that a person lacks the most basic of common sense.

i'll wager a high school physics teacher would think certain things are 'common sense' that you have absolutely no clue about. there's really very little that's 'common' when it comes to this rather esoteric hobby's knowledge base. i wouldn't expect most people who have close to zero exposure to an animal group to have even the most basic knowledge about the splits within that group.

we need to be careful about our assumptions about 'common sense'-all i'm sayin

 

[mikem101]

tropical fw/sw closed system husbandry/setup/maintenance from small (nano) to large scale (commercial hatchery management) is one the very few things i'm actually a real expert in. all taught from vary varied direct experience, tons of self motivated research, school of hard knocks... i don't need *you* to validate that, lol.

I have been following this and, not taking anything away from you cause obviously have been in this hobby for a long time. Also are a very knowledgeable person when it comes to SW and husbandry. So what I say isn't to argue or be a jerk but, what is it that the tanked guys are doing that bothers you? Seems like some people don't like that it makes our hobby look easy? I don't see how these guys are doing anything wrong, they are tank builders that's all. So I guess I'm unclear on what bothers you about the show? They overstock for 24 hrs then fish are removed, the tanks are cycled and within water parameters for a FO tank? The aquariums are pretty cool? Again not trying to argue I'm just curious on your point?

 

[Railcar79]

All I have to say before I unsubscribe, this is the internet. For all you know I invented the acrylic that makes the tanks. Everyone on this board claims to be an expert, yet most the people have their heads shoved so far up their I'm better than you so take what I say as gospel *** that reef central has become a joke.

 

[pmcarbrey]

How about having a show that actually shows the steps and problems that we all face on a daily basis. The people watching would probably increase if a show would bring everyone from start to finish and then daily issues

no one would watch it; does cycling a tank, dealing with ich, constant water changes, and slow acclimation and introduction of fish/inverts make for good tv?

The show is made to keep your attention, nothing more. It's just like any reality tv show. You dont see anyone complaining about the home renovation shows where in a day or two someone magically completely renovates half their house. The timelines are sped up to fit a short show time and hold interest, not to deceive, and everyone watching should realize this

 

[Lincutis]

I think we need to do more tank maintenance or something to take up our extra time. LOL

 

[Fishfirst]

Once again you all for the show missed the point. I am not all knowing, however I do have some very good mentors as well as a decent amount of experience in this hobby and profession to know there is a distinct difference between someone respecting, researching, and pushing the limits vs someone grabbing some fish and throwing them in an acrylic box for a ton of money and taking their customers for fools. There are a few things that bother me about the show and some things that don't.

What I disagree with:
1) the ethics of guys who clearly don't know the difference between an acceptable tankmate for the tank vs a well thought out plan.
2) the lack of any substance as far as knowledge goes when presenting these amazing boxes of acrylic.
3) the poor judgement of tank design ie. The refrigerator tank, gumball tank, jellyfish tank, spade tank etc.

 

[Lincutis]

Once again you all for the show missed the point. I am not all knowing, however I do have some very good mentors as well as a decent amount of experience in this hobby and profession to know there is a distinct difference between someone respecting, researching, and pushing the limits vs someone grabbing some fish and throwing them in an acrylic box for a ton of money and taking their customers for fools. There are a few things that bother me about the show and some things that don't.

What I disagree with:
1) the ethics of guys who clearly don't know the difference between an acceptable tankmate for the tank vs a well thought out plan.
2) the lack of any substance as far as knowledge goes when presenting these amazing boxes of acrylic.
3) the poor judgement of tank design ie. The refrigerator tank, gumball tank, jellyfish tank, spade tank etc.

These are novelties. This show is not about the hobby of fish keeping. It's entertainment. Like all the other crap on T.V. It's about entertaining the public for advertising dollars. People with money that most of us don't have like outrageous things. I have walked into lfs for years and told them they needed to move certain fish or they would have problems. They move the fish because they are in the business to sell them not lose them. That's not what Hollywood does. Do you think every teenager in America is in a hot tub with 11 other teens having sex 10 hours a day. If T.V. were the rule and not the exception that would be the case. We should be boycotting all T.V. if we boycotted every ill we saw in the shows. Think of how much of the world thinks we are idiots for the money we spend to keep fish in a glass pen that we don't plan on eating. Maybe start a facebook page to have all the hobbyist sell all their equipment and start taking care of the less fortunate rather than making such a big fuss over nothing. Oh my I'm ranting. Forgive me. Well enough said. Let's start talking about those tree house guys and how they are hurting those poor trees for the pleasure of more wealthy people.

 

[Down]

Regardless of right or wrong, these dudes are making a living and there are people out there that what what they want, doesn't matter whether they should want it or not.

If businesses only provided what they "should" and not what the market "wants", we'd never see stuff like this:

 

[SpartaReef]

actually, the op isn't really a self declared activist of any kind, nor is he an 'armchair' anything

i know the show misrepresents the hobby, the industry, and what's involved, w/ both, to the point of un-necessarily wasting a valuable natural resource for a few dozens of people's wallets. kinda like a puppy mill sponsoring a dog grooming show on pbs, or an abortion clinic giving out classes in infant care. it's obscene.

all i've really done is voice my opinion that it should be taken of the air, and asked any of a liked mind, to join in expressing that opinion.

many of you seem to be making the assumption that i expect my action to have any concrete, tangible results. it's a bit laughable that any assumptions about what my expectations are, are even being assumed/thought about. that's 'all y'alls' silly conjecture

(and i have enough of a background in wholesale, retail, and the hobby to be able to discern between the realities of the hobby and industry, and the fantasy that are the 'reality' aquarium themed shows, among which are having worked for one of 'tanked's suppliers for a few yrs, heh ).

2 clowns that know how to work very well w/ acrylic and aquarium building want their 15 min of fortune and fame. fine by me. do it honestly. don't have your finished product leave the distinct impression that the home husbandry and acquisition of these animals is something it's not. very simple concept here.

'animal planet' is a whole other ball of wax, and one of dozens of garbage pipelines that never should have made it to the 'ether', like infomercials, qvc, and fox news.and tlc. and bravo. and leno.

it's my opinion folks-you think it's silly? fine by me. no one's holding a gun to your head to go visit fakeboo.

i'm also a tad flattered that my opinions and (unknown/possibly nonexistent) motives/thoughts interest some of you so much that you're compelled to state strong opinions on something you know nothing about at all, heh (above mentioned motives/thought). it's enlightening, and made my evening.

and, 'just clownin', as some here on this bb know, i most certainly have 'beaten my hairy chest' on certain issues that pertain to this hobby, and have been directly involved in trying to change or effect those things through both action and public rhetoric/participation.(including working for a non profit coral conservation group.and many heated threads in rdo's industry forum around '03 and onwards. i've also helped dogs, btw so i'd ask you make a small effort to refrain from the absolutely ignorant commentary on what you think you know about other people you're commenting on. it would help you score debate points

don't ever forget that your box's inhabitants ultimately came from an ocean that isn't going to be able to keep those creatures alive for much longer-to see them squandered so blatantly, and with the 'blessing' of a 'network' by the name of 'animal planet' isn't exactly something i'd call 'trivial', at any rate.

everyone has their particular pet peeves and causes. the reaction of most of you to the same level of commentary made by many on this thread towards an issue *i* happen to think worthwhile , to any of importance to y'all , would be interesting indeed, i'll bet

even more interesting is the apparent sentiment by some that since an issue isn't likely going to get resolved by expressing an idea, one shouldn't express that idea. or that expressing it is therefore laughable, as it's the end outcome only that validates the idea/behavior/'activism'. wow. what would rosa parks have done ? (not to make my issue analogous at all-but you hopefully get the point).

i hope i've been able to clarify a few things that seem to be confusing some here if not, tough.

*clap, clap, clap*

No, seriously, that was good. And I respect it.

 

[SpartaReef]

Regardless of right or wrong, these dudes are making a living and there are people out there that what what they want, doesn't matter whether they should want it or not.

If businesses only provided what they "should" and not what the market "wants", we'd never see stuff like this:

I almost threw up looking at that