PO'd about Zoas

[Joshporksandwic]

This has happened to me... And to be honest, I find it disgusting... Locals and other club members (sorry guys but its true, and I've actually been told this)... I've been told through texts, emailed, and pm's, as well as in person about how I'm selling too cheap, drivin down the market, and under cutting into people's profits (which are pathetically minuscule, if that, I'm sure)... My only real goal, is to have a beautiful collection, and spread the love... Cuz it's what I do

Alot of the locals and folks in my area/clubs won't sell to me... It's too bad really, I've only hooked people up and have been generous to others... But no worries, it might take me a little longer to build up my reef, but I'll get there jus the same

I have a few zoos let me know what you need pay for shipping and I'll help you bring your tiles back to life!!!!! (disclaimer.....free not soliciting!!!!!!!!)

 

[Pallobi]

I have a few zoos let me know what you need pay for shipping and I'll help you bring your tiles back to life!!!!! (disclaimer.....free not soliciting!!!!!!!!)

Don't tease me with a good time buddy!!! I don't have PayPal, but one can mail money orders

Lol...

:beer:

 

[MUCHO REEF]

With all the TV shows about saltwater tanks and shows about reefs, more and more people join the hobby than ever before. Like I stated before I've spent a lot for 1 polyp but now that I have 40+ polyp colonies I sell locally for a fraction of what I paid just like everyone that leaves my house leaves with lots of freebies. I've also gotten a lot of people (sellers) angry at me for my prices lol. This is going to continue happening for a while all we can do is try to be the ones that change.

Lol, you know, I too was targeted for selling my frags so cheap once, ( see the selling forum ), but I forwarded their reply to a friend of mind who was in the Prosecutor's office. I never had that issue again. Sure, the price gougers get extremely angry when you tell the truth and sell these polyps for what they are worth. I never dreamed of the day when I would see 1 to 3 polyp frags being sold let alone sold for more than $ 5 for that number of polyps. Like yourself, I have given away so many frags it isn't funny via Trivia Give-a-ways on other sites and to people who wanted and needed corals to stock their tank. That's the way it use to be. I applaud and commend you my friend for giving away freebies to those in need. That's a majot part of reefing.

Now I try to trade for all my high end stuff. It's easier now that my tank is getting full and everything is grown but i remember when i was starting how happy I used to get to get a baby out of a $80 zoa or see encrusting on that $100 acro frag. Just like old fogies can't fathom paying $40 for 1 polyp frag(or even $40 for a whole colony)

I see both sides and they're both right but this hobby is growing very fast lets keep trying to help people and not drive them away with arguments.

I'll say it again, I am having a discussion, I am not arguing, if you were speaking of my replies. If not, my apologies man.

PS. Mucho i want lots of freebies where do i sign the no sale policy?????

Everyone who knows me locally can vouche for my freely giving frags away. Then I stopped, do you know why? I gave a new reefer 4 very nice size frags to stock his new tank, but do you know what he did? He waited a week, then posted them for sale on the very site I met him on. I seeded those rocks myself and spotted them instantly as the ones I gave him. Sad, I know.

MUCHO REEF

PS. I will forward your reply to a lot of reefers who don't believe this practice is happening regarding this statement you made above.

"I sell locally for a fraction of what I paid just like everyone that leaves my house leaves with lots of freebies. I've also gotten a lot of people (sellers) angry at me for my prices"


I think that is sad, but thank you sir for sharing it with us.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

LMAO I love it when people call other cry babies when they're trying to educate the rest that the prices they see now is not real but a artificially created by those for their own gain. Awesome bro, you contributed greatly to this thread by the way. Props to you.

+1 Charles

 

[Chriskid]

Hmmm, why do you call a difference of opinion based upon facts and supported by numerous people "whinning" ? Just curious.

Mooch

BC winning about gouging when anyone can clearly go elsewhere, just gets old. and 99% of my questions get avoided. why BC you know its also a true statement based on fact

ignorance and stupidity has no cure.

like i said over and over again, people who pay these outrages prices only see an investment. and deserve the disappointment.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Yes we do

I avoid discussions like this but I'm tired of being called a hater because I WON'T pay what folks today think are standard prices for a single polyp that may die or take 5 years to grow into something you can actually see without maco shots...nor would I frag a 3 head "mini colony".

like Mucho and the others I had multiple colonies 75+ polyps of colorful zoas...filled a 220 around 2003/4 started collecting around 2002. All purchased from my LFS or phishy business and yes many of them are the designer zoas of today. Not one crappy brown or what ever you fanboys preach was all we had or could afford.

FWIW my LFS has hates names and sells kick arse pieces and doo brown for the same after his standard mark up ( which may surprise many but his price is the same for either) ...then again the chop shops cherry pickers grab more and more of the quality colonies we use to see.

I also remember the days prior to 2005 when zoas had no names and we got along just fine trading/selling my "pretty" for yours.
QUOTE]



Bravo, my friend, your first paragraph was dead on. :thumbsup: , and trust me, you are not a hater, smart, but not a hater at all.

I would definitely support your LFS.

Crazy isn't it, and you're right, we got along fine without names for so many years. These names have created a propensity and a new found culture of constant and persistent trading of living creatures like baseball cards. This is why we have more "collectors" and less reefers. Baseball cards won't get infections, fungus, pox or any stress related issues. Baseball cards won't perish due to improper, excessive, redundant or premature fragging. Baseball cards are man made items, not actually living creatures which can succumb and/or retract due to improper shipping/handling. I mean, you can't kill a baseball card because of a lack of knowledge. What happened to focusing on trying to keep them alive, proper husbandry, meeting their needs until they are mature colonies and not chopping off the first new polyp on a 4 polyp frag on a quarter size disc? You're absolutely right Coralreefer, selling and trading was a breeze back then.


MOOCH

 

[Pallobi]

like i said over and over again, people who pay these outrages prices only see an investment. and deserve the disappointment.

I'm gonna agree with that a million times over...

I know a LFS that sells purple hornets for 10 bucks a polyp... And another local hobbyists who sells them for 20 to 30+ per polyp... Kinda backwards for what we have been talking about here, but interesting, lol... For some reason some folks don't wana use the LFS resource, and continue to pay the 30 bucks instead...

I've scene locals in person, who started with one or two polyps over two years ago, and their "mother colony" still only consists of a few polyps max... Why? Cuz they only keep them to make money...

About 8 weeks ago, I sold over 30 clementines on our local forum here... At about 5 bucks per polyp... The VERY NEXT DAY, this same fool was selling them, the same exact colony I had pictured, for 35 bucks per polyp... On the SAME LOCAL BOARD!!!

It's a joke... This person is going to a local frag farmers market next month, and some of the crap he is selling for stupid prices he got from me, extremely cheap, as well as ALOT, actually most, of it free... From me...

I will say again, I will no longer pay more than 20 to 30 bucks for a nice small, healed colony... But only experience and observation have made my mind up on that one... With that said, I'm reluctant to do good deeds and cilice angthing away now either...

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I've been that fool to over pay for polyps... Or other corals as well... Over 100 bucks for 2 clementines for example... Fortunately I was able to grow it into 2 nice 35+ polyp colonies... in which I sold to help pay for my new 180, and at jus a few dollars per polyp mind you...


Much respect for sharing/saying this, but I think you are being much too hard on yourself. For whatever the reason you paid those prices before, you're not paying them now, that's all that matters. Like I always say to Kafudafish, you have no idea just how many young and old reefers you are helping by sharing this and you really need to share this more often.....so thank you sir.


And prior to that, a nearly 400 polyp rasta at about 80 cents a polyp... My end hope was i'd flood the market a bit, but I did so the wrong way... What I should have done was break them up a bit and get them to more hobbyist so that more people had them at that same price per polyp


Kudos for that Neal.



Anyways, not to get of track as its late and I'm spent but I RC a bit before bed usually, lol... I was gonna also add that after paying those original prices, and seeing how fast they grew when I was constantly told how slow they grew, I refuse to ever pay more than 20 or 30 bucks for a nice established and healthy frag


:beer: wow, impressive and so true. I grow tired of hearing all of these claims of fast and slower growers when the only variables which will dictate and determine fast growth, slow growth, no growth or death, is your tank maturity and its parameters. Also ones overall knowledge level and said husbandry knowledge goes a long way in even keeping them alive.

Personally, I have never and will never pay more than $ 15 to $ 20 for a 7 to 10 polyp frag and that is based also upon the size of the rock they are attached to.


... I constantly see people all around my local clubs and area who sell the one or two polyps, cut at the base and not even be rubble beneath it, slapped in too much glue, faded and not healed, and asking some BS prices... Drives me nuts as someone who used to frag quite a bit and would only let go what did well only after a month or two, and always at least 5 or more polyps... Don't get me wrong, I've made smaller frags, put wouldn't sell them until they were healed and growing, or I used those for freebies to friends and as extras to buyers in case they didn't do well...


My friend, you are hitting the nail on the proverbial head. It absolutely sickens me to hear and see this practice. To see a blatant lack of morality in the care and handling of these polyps is a small portion of how the dynamics of reefing has shifted away from where it once was. It is totally unethical to cut, glue and ship anything without affording it the opportunity to heal/recover before even considering selling it let alone shipping it. This is what greed and price gouging has created, an entire new culture. I just saw a frag of 5 polyp of one of the most common dull zoanthids in the hobby. I am being very honest here, it was one of the first ones I ever own. It was so common and cheap, it was most often given away at local swaps and a freebie from many LFS. I saw a guy selling those 5 polyps that were place under super saturated blue LEDs and a macro shot taken just inches from the polyp, and he was selling it for $45. WHAT ??? you could buy a 4 inch colony before names and gouging with 100 or more for only $ 30 at the most.

Do you remember this thread in which you and I were a part of?

I want everyone to read post # 387 below.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1941053&page=16

Then read post # 443 in its entirety

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1941053&page=18


I have sent that thread to most everyone I know. The majority who took several days to read it were shocked to say the least. It is one of the most informative threads you will ever read and will surely open the eyes of those who simply aren't aware of the game being played on them. There are even those involved in price fixing to set the price and to keep it as high as possible. You have even eluded to those who didn't want you to sell your frags at a fair market price. I challenge everyone to take the time to read it this thread I am speaking of. It gets heated, but look beyond that and just keep reading. It's all there so it's not just a few who are sick of what is happening.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1941053

.




I guess my point here is, besides probably not really having one, is I've learned from my experiences and what I've seen around me... Educated sort of speak I guess you could say, and I simply make better choices in what I'll add or buy for my collection... I'm in a sort of rebirth in this hobby and I'm goin strictly zoas and palys as far as coral, but I absolutely will not buy what is t healthy and legit, and I will not be paying much for it... If that means I go without certain ones, so be it, my collection and display will still be amazing with time... And I'll feel better about wallet, lol...


Well said my friend, very well said.


On the flip side, some folks got money to burn, and good for them, I don't really judge others about how they spend their money... Truth be told I feel it's along the lines of religion and politics and you leave it be and don't talk about it... People's money, and how they spend it, is their own business, and should be left at that...

I hear you, but these lies and this price gouging has to stop. It has driven hundreds if not thousands of new reefers away.

Sometimes I really wish we could jus stick to the reason we are here, and jus share photos and knowledge of species and care, and never mind all this horse crap... I think one thing we can agree on is most all of us, especially those of us who have been in this wonderful hobby for more than a few years and aren't jus people passing through sorta speak, is that we all have one hell of a passion for this hobby and these animals... Imagine if this much energy was put into threads that involved picture sharing, care, and helping each other and having more productive conversations...

I share your passion my friend.

Jus some thoughts to share... Worth less than a grain of salt, if that...

Again I apologize if any I this doesn't make sense, it's late and I'm spent...

Neal

It was worth far more than a grain of salt and thanks for sharig it. :beer:

Mucho Reef

 

[650-IS350]

About 8 weeks ago, I sold over 30 clementines on our local forum here... At about 5 bucks per polyp... The VERY NEXT DAY, this same fool was selling them, the same exact colony I had pictured, for 35 bucks per polyp... On the SAME LOCAL BOARD!!!

It's a joke... This person is going to a local frag farmers market next month, and some of the crap he is selling for stupid prices he got from me, extremely cheap, as well as ALOT, actually most, of it free... From me...

I will say again, I will no longer pay more than 20 to 30 bucks for a nice small, healed colony... But only experience and observation have made my mind up on that one... With that said, I'm reluctant to do good deeds and cilice angthing away now either...

Sorry to hear bud yes I've had this happen to me before different corals and various Z's and P's, and different times with different folks. Greed is the CAUSE of this plain and simple. I only now give to folks I fully trust or friends in real life.

 

[650-IS350]

I've also gotten a lot of people (sellers) angry at me for my prices lol.
This has happened to me... And to be honest, I find it disgusting... Locals and other club members (sorry guys but its true, and I've actually been told this)... I've been told through texts, emailed, and pm's, as well as in person about how I'm selling too cheap, drivin down the market, and under cutting into people's profits (which are pathetically minuscule, if that, I'm sure)...

For some reason this doesn't surprise me one bit how this hobby has turned

 

[MUCHO REEF]

omg! Just read this whole thread lol. My head is going to explode! Been in the hobby 1 year and some months and have paid ridiculous prices for single polyps and then found colonies for half what i paid for 1. I've seen people name an eagle eye something else and get big bucks for it. Every person i know that has been in the hobby a long time tells me how back in the day everything was cheaper and cant tell the difference in all the different zoos. They tell me they all look the same lol. I really enjoy seeing my 1 polyp that i paid $150 for now be a beautiful colony of 40+. I buy pretty stuff regardless of the name. This thread got pretty heated and its very educational. Everyone has different opinions and no one will change.

LOL, oh no, don't allow your head to explode.

I see it all the time, one reefer on the east side of town pays $15 for a frag of 8 polyps and another reefer on the west side of town pays $ 150 for one polyp of the exact same thing. It had absolutely nothing to do with supply and demand, it was pure greed and price gouging as so many have stated countless times in this thread alone. Your point is also well taken with the renaming.



Mooch

 

[Chriskid]

LOL, oh no, don't allow your head to explode.

I see it all the time, one reefer on the east side of town pays $15 for a frag of 8 polyps and another reefer on the west side of town pays $ 150 for one polyp of the exact same thing. It had absolutely nothing to do with supply and demand, it was pure greed and price gouging as so many have stated countless times in this thread alone. Your point is also well taken with the renaming.



Mooch

you helped make my point right here. greed yes, price gouging when you can go somewere else(cross town) not price gouging. go elsewere

 

[MUCHO REEF]

LOLZ I would NEVER PUT a tag of RARE, LE or how ever people are putting with their cartoon names now a days to put a extra buck or to make a quicker sell. Zoanthids and palys do grow fast especially once its acclimated into YOUR tanks system and lighting.

The TRUE limited quantity not a artificially created Supply and demand piece like these corals are now a days are like Picasso paintings, 15 Karat diamond found, rare animals that are almost extinct in the wild, limited created vehicles or classic cars etc. etc. etc. I just think its funny that people compare coral to rare cars, coins, paintings etc just to justify the high prices and cartoon names. These corals aren't limited amount nor no longer growing in the wild, they're abundant out there and continue to grow once they are in our tanks, propagated. That's not limited or rare IMO. ALL MARKETING, come get it now, get it before its sold, limited amounts, be the first to get it, its 100 a polyp right now but will go to 200 once it goes up on my site.

My friend I agree 100%. It is as simple as reading what you wrote to know the truth. 99% of what we all see everyday posted picture-wise simply isn't rare and none are LE. Great post man. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


MOOCH

 

[650-IS350]

i don't care if people get mad that I post that, if 100 read it and 1 person finally wakes and and realizes it.. I did my job.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

So, just a quick question since we are still on this topic (I've been following along):

As a person that has only been into reefing for a little over a year (minus a couple years back in 2003), how would I, and others in my shoes, know what zoas/palys are the ones that we should expect to pay premium prices for, and the ones that are common, quick growers, and generally sell for lower prices?

Hello, the very best advice I can give you is this and I am not being smart mouth or mean. The very first thing I would do is read, research on line, buy a few books and ask as many questions as you are doing now. If your tank has matured, stable parameters, minimal fish load, you have basic understanding of husbandry, parameters, lighting etc, then and only then would I consider adding corals. Since I am sure that you are pass this point, and to get back to your question, I would do this. Don't allow yourself to get caught up in the hype. First find polyps you like, check the source of your potential zoas and palys/seller, ask a host of questions, ( how long has he/she had them, were they captive breed or wild caught, if it is a frag, how recently was it fragged, ask when they were fragged, how often has the parent colony been fragged and how many times. Ask about every parameter possible and be sure they are somewhat compatible with yours. Inquire of the lighting and of any additives he/she might have been adding. But first and foremost, what is the price. If you want to know about pricing, I'd be glad to share more.


Don't allow anyone to convince you that something they have is a fast grower. What propagates rapidly in one tank, is no guarantee it will do so in your tank or anyone else's system as no two systems are alike. Regarding "premium price"....well, I will allow someone else here to answer that. I am not into the whole per polyp price thing. The minute anyone locally starts to dictate a PP price to me, I walk away instantly...INSTANTLY. Just don't get caught up in what everyone else has. Stay far away from any catchy titles and labels such as LE, Rare, Never seen before, only 3 being released, lineage, ultra, Deepwater, AAA and grade A etc etc. When you see these labels, you are about to be taken. Most of what is being labeled rare isn't as Charles just stated above.


Or does it even matter? Should we just look for what we like, and forget the names and added marketing tags ("LE!", ULTRA!, etc)?


Your first and foremost concern should be purchasing healthy, happy, full bodied, erect polyps that retract with stimulation. Allow me to give you a piece of advice. You will have a greater longevity in this hobby if you avoid names, rarity claims and the like as listed above, lineage etc. Instead, focus on their captive care, requirements and those who are and have been successful with growing them. Those individuals are everywhere including right here. I can list a dozen reefers locally and abroad who can recite the name of every zoanthid and playthoas ever named. They can tell you the price Peter The Polyp Pimp is selling them for on the east coast and the price Little Timmy is selling them for on the west coast. These same guys have killed more polyps and crashed more tanks than you can imagine.

Please click on this link and read post # 191 from this very thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2229731&page=8




Another thing... I don't even see how these names can be used to buy zoas, because when I look on sites such as zoaid, the same zoas look so different! Very confusing, and aggravating trying to find names of zoas I already have.

LOL, most have several names. Some will even buy it knowing its name, say it's theres and they discovered it, pop their new name on it, all in the name of marketing, hype and to get you to fork over a ton of your money and all along you'll think you have something rare that's worth a dollar. In fact, all you have is a wet Twinkie, with a new name on it. It happens every single day of the week. Some even argue over the name. Please, don't give names one second of your time. There are several links on the earlier pages in this thread which you just have to read to believe. It is a waste of time my friend. I don't know any of those names and I have never ever crashed a tank in 20 years.


While participating in a recent eBay auction on zoas (reef_pets, order looks great btw), I noticed that some of the zoas I was bidding on jumped way up in price, much faster than others of the same size. I was wondering if those were known to be more expensive, and so more people were taking advantage of the auction prices.

Google the word SHILLING, it runs rampent on Ebay. The very same polyps you find on Ebay you can find locally, at your LFS, local reef clubs, etc etc. or just spend some time searching and asking. BTW, an auction ( Ebay) is just that, it's an auction. It is not the place to go to ...to determine value or what is or isn't expensive. Here's the catch, if you place 3 very common red polyps on Ebay, and you get a friend to run up the price for you, or even if it is a legit bid and they sell for $ 100. The gougers will then show up on one of the many reefing forums and claim the price has been set by what someone paid for it on Ebay. This is then what they use to justify the sky high prices to newbies who have no clue what has happened and that they are being taken. In fact, the price is often ran up just to create hype or to get you to pay more and all along, it's their buddy running up the bid. It happens everyday. Plus you're paying for shipping and trust me, everyone doesn't know how to ship live corals. Am I saying you should never buy from Ebay sellers? NO, just buyer beware.

Right now, I have no idea of the names of the zoas I have, but I wonder if I should be keeping up with what is what, so if I ever frag in the future to trade or give away, I should know what they are called.

I've own more polyps than most reefers have seen, ( no, not being cocky ), and I don't know the names of any of them and have matured some of the biggest colonies many have seen. If you are going to give them away, the name doesn't matter. If you try to give them away for free and someone won't take them without knowing their name, I wouldn't give it to them. You don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Focus on those things I mentioned above and don't allow yourself to fall into those traps. You'll thank me 5 years from now my friend.

Good luck and best wishes with your tank. If you have any issues or concerns, these guys/gals here are great and will be more then willing to help you.

I hope I have said something that helps.

Mucho Reef

 

[MUCHO REEF]

You will never know what zoa you're getting lol or the right name. Recently I posted a pic of a zoa on another site and named it what they told me it was and in a few days I had 3 zoa big online retailers telling me it was their morph to rename it right lolol. Every big retailer supposedly has their own morph. Just like some others rename easier to find z&p something else to charge more.

I too have heard of this, never personally experienced it though. To think a business would contact you over a name !!!!!!I once contacted an online store about 5 years ago to inquire of something I found interesting. I inquired of the species and they began to recite some silly given name, I stopped the guy on the phone and ask another question regarding its viablility, how long they have had it, was it wild or was it cultured. Again he just rambled on about some silly name they gave it but he never answered my question. Finally, and I already knew it was a proto palythoa, but I ask him was it a zoa or paly, and he pause for about 3 seconds and said it was a zoanthid. I thanked him and said goodbye and never called again. You're right, you never know what you're getting. No, I never said one should never order online.

On ebay for example I purchased 3 polyps of a rainbow for $15 and when i look on a big online store they were selling the same zoa for $150 pp.


:hammer:


Unfortunately the name game is ridiculous and every tank is different so since in some tank an eagle eye gets a white spot its called super spotted white dragon fires chaotic destruction and from $1 a polyp it goes up to $100pp but it changed in that persons tank and they change the name. But it's still an eagle eye with a white spot lol.

How true my friend, how true. Click on this link.. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2031770

I used to buy for the name but since my tank is full I'm more selective and I've been able to find the same thing cheaper somewhere else. Remember the colors or zoa you like and look around you will always find it cheap somewhere.

It's sad that reefers have to resort to doing this.



MOOCH

 

[MUCHO REEF]

If it's really not about supply and demand, why would the rest of the world do not have most of your named z/p ?
yes we can pay US$15 for 100polyps colony, but it's just some common one found off the beach

Somehow somewhere I think you received some misinformation and I am taken aback by your this. I greatly respect your opinion my friend, but these polyps are everywhere. However, very polyp can't be in every store as there are thousands of them.


MUcho Reef

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Correction, sorry...

Somehow somewhere I think you received some misinformation and I am taken aback by this. I greatly respect your opinion my friend, but these polyps are everywhere. However, every polyp can't be in every store as there are thousands of them.

 

[Joshporksandwic]

It's sad that reefers have to resort to doing this.



MOOCH

Great thread mooch! You find lots threads like this on every forum. Here in Miami there's a lot of wholesalers and a lot of Lfs. You find crazy stuff on the Lfs a lot of times cheap. I'm sure cali and other big cities with big ports are the same. The thing is that 90% of the US doesn't have access to very nice stuff like we do. So those people with no access pay the ridiculous prices. Sad to say! I'm close friends with an online retailer and I laugh when I see what people pay for stuff sometimes. I'm lucky he hooks me up if not my tank wouldn't have some of the crazy stuff it does. I don't know if that makes me a hypocrite but I keep saying it falls on the people that do not do their research and pay $200 per polyp.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I have always love Z's but the prices I see turns me away from them. I will never judge someone for spending x amount on something. That is the number one reason I believe prices are what they are. A few months ago I bought a 100+ colony from a guy who kept them under LED's, they looked like normal brown Z's. however was sorta shocked a few weeks later when some turned almost neon green tops, some are neon orange and others are speckled. So what can I call head now. I also won't frag any of my corals, although chances are I will have to in the next few months I won't. I enjoy seeing how I grew them all from frags and know they are fully grown. When I do have Z's or chalices break off I usually give them away for free. I am not in this hobby to get rich or make money. I like to help the next reefer like I was when I firs started.

Much respect on your post as I too enjoy seeing and allowing them to just grow to fully matured colonies as is the case in the wild. Big props again for wanting to give back by helping new reefers out with freebies. I'm sure they appreciate it and will pay it forward as well someday. Trust me, the prices will change someday soon.

Mucho Reef

PS. If USMC means what I think it means, I thank you for your service my friend.