PO'd about Zoas

[coralreefer]

any one that has been in this hobby for a while, know what something is worth.

Yes we do

I avoid discussions like this but I'm tired of being called a hater because I WON'T pay what folks today think are standard prices for a single polyp that may die or take 5 years to grow into something you can actually see without maco shots...nor would I frag a 3 head "mini colony".

like Mucho and the others I had multiple colonies 75+ polyps of colorful zoas...filled a 220 around 2003/4 started collecting around 2002. All purchased from my LFS or phishy business and yes many of them are the designer zoas of today. Not one crappy brown or what ever you fanboys preach was all we had or could afford. Payed an average of $2.00/polyp for them. Tank crashed in 2006 and by the time I was ready to restock I went a different direction. Florida rics are still sold by color not name :beer:

FWIW my LFS has hates names and sells kick arse pieces and doo brown for the same after his standard mark up ( which may surprise many but his price is the same for either) ...then again the chop shops cherry pickers grab more and more of the quality colonies we use to see.

I also remember the days prior to 2005 when zoas had no names and we got along just fine trading/selling my "pretty" for yours.
speaking of "general education" and names, back in the day having "tubbs blues" meant you zoas lineage could be traced to tubbs original colony. Like wise "bamm-bamms" came from a RC member with that user name and any look a likes really aren't bamm-bamms. Don't forget Blane and his PPE. Back in the day you (if you were inclined) payed a premium for lineage. If a PPE didn't trace to Blane it was "worth" a fraction of the going price.

Ya'll DO know Blane and what a PPE is don't you? If not ya have no right to argue names or prices.:beer:

I don't hate ya'll for buying into the hype and spending all that money to feel special..I just feel sorry for you.

 

[650-IS350]

Totally agree with your statements CR. Again its a free country, buy if you want. Were just here to provide you the info that these crazy prices arent the norm. they are artificially inflated and people shouldn't feel that this is ok for it to be like that.

 

[Chriskid]

I don't hate ya'll for buying into the hype and spending all that money to feel special..I just feel sorry for you.

dont feel bad for me, i just keep enjoying the hobby. if you reed what a wrote before, you will see that.

i also stated that after about 15years in this i finally felt worthy of writeing to some of the old timers on here. and for that im sorry. ill go back to my little club forum.

so happy reefing to some
and happy complaining to the rest

 

[Pallobi]

I've been that fool to over pay for polyps... Or other corals as well... Over 100 bucks for 2 clementines for example... Fortunately I was able to grow it into 2 nice 35+ polyp colonies... in which I sold to help pay for my new 180, and at jus a few dollars per polyp mind you... And prior to that, a nearly 400 polyp rasta at about 80 cents a polyp... My end hope was i'd flood the market a bit, but I did so the wrong way... What I should have done was break them up a bit and get them to more hobbyist so that more people had them at that same price per polyp... Anyways, not to get of track as its late and I'm spent but I RC a bit before bed usually, lol... I was gonna also add that after paying those original prices, and seeing how fast they grew when I was constantly told how slow they grew, I refuse to ever pay more than 20 or 30 bucks for a nice established and healthy frag... I constantly see people all around my local clubs and area who sell the one or two polyps, cut at the base and not even be rubble beneath it, slapped in too much glue, faded and not healed, and asking some BS prices... Drives me nuts as someone who used to frag quite a bit and would only let go what did well only after a month or two, and always at least 5 or more polyps... Don't get me wrong, I've made smaller frags, put wouldn't sell them until they were healed and growing, or I used those for freebies to friends and as extras to buyers in case they didn't do well...

I guess my point here is, besides probably not really having one, is I've learned from my experiences and what I've seen around me... Educated sort of speak I guess you could say, and I simply make better choices in what I'll add or buy for my collection... I'm in a sort of rebirth in this hobby and I'm goin strictly zoas and palys as far as coral, but I absolutely will not buy what is t healthy and legit, and I will not be paying much for it... If that means I go without certain ones, so be it, my collection and display will still be amazing with time... And I'll feel better about wallet, lol...

On the flip side, some folks got money to burn, and good for them, I don't really judge others about how they spend their money... Truth be told I feel it's along the lines of religion and politics and you leave it be and don't talk about it... People's money, and how they spend it, is their own business, and should be left at that...

Sometimes I really wish we could jus stick to the reason we are here, and jus share photos and knowledge of species and care, and never mind all this horse crap... I think one thing we can agree on is most all of us, especially those of us who have been in this wonderful hobby for more than a few years and aren't jus people passing through sorta speak, is that we all have one hell of a passion for this hobby and these animals... Imagine if this much energy was put into threads that involved picture sharing, care, and helping each other and having more productive conversations...

Jus some thoughts to share... Worth less than a grain of salt, if that...

Again I apologize if any I this doesn't make sense, it's late and I'm spent...

Neal

 

[Pallobi]

I would also like to add, that Chris above, is one of the most generous and helpful reefers my area and local clubs have... Very fortunate to have him as someone with mutual interest... Some of the best zoa frags as far as quality and price have come from him...

And before someone calls me a noob, I've been in the hobby much longer than my RC join date states

 

[650-IS350]

thanks for sharing much appreciated. Shoudnt be any name calling here of sorts, its a forum and discussions area too. just because you have different thoughts and ideas dont' make you wrong or noob or what ever. All should be welcome to add to the discussion. =)

 

[Joshporksandwic]

omg! Just read this whole thread lol. My head is going to explode! Been in the hobby 1 year and some months and have paid ridiculous prices for single polyps and then found colonies for half what i paid for 1. I've seen people name an eagle eye something else and get big bucks for it. Every person i know that has been in the hobby a long time tells me how back in the day everything was cheaper and cant tell the difference in all the different zoos. They tell me they all look the same lol. I really enjoy seeing my 1 polyp that i paid $150 for now be a beautiful colony of 40+. I buy pretty stuff regardless of the name. This thread got pretty heated and its very educational. Everyone has different opinions and no one will change.

 

[cordell]

So, just a quick question since we are still on this topic (I've been following along):

As a person that has only been into reefing for a little over a year (minus a couple years back in 2003), how would I, and others in my shoes, know what zoas/palys are the ones that we should expect to pay premium prices for, and the ones that are common, quick growers, and generally sell for lower prices?

Or does it even matter? Should we just look for what we like, and forget the names and added marketing tags ("LE!", ULTRA!, etc)?

Another thing... I don't even see how these names can be used to buy zoas, because when I look on sites such as zoaid, the same zoas look so different! Very confusing, and aggravating trying to find names of zoas I already have.

While participating in a recent eBay auction on zoas (reef_pets, order looks great btw), I noticed that some of the zoas I was bidding on jumped way up in price, much faster than others of the same size. I was wondering if those were known to be more expensive, and so more people were taking advantage of the auction prices.

Right now, I have no idea of the names of the zoas I have, but I wonder if I should be keeping up with what is what, so if I ever frag in the future to trade or give away, I should know what they are called.

 

[Joshporksandwic]

So, just a quick question since we are still on this topic (I've been following along):

As a person that has only been into reefing for a little over a year (minus a couple years back in 2003), how would I, and others in my shoes, know what zoas/palys are the ones that we should expect to pay premium prices for, and the ones that are common, quick growers, and generally sell for lower prices?

Or does it even matter? Should we just look for what we like, and forget the names and added marketing tags ("LE!", ULTRA!, etc)?

Another thing... I don't even see how these names can be used to buy zoas, because when I look on sites such as zoaid, the same zoas look so different! Very confusing, and aggravating trying to find names of zoas I already have.

While participating in a recent eBay auction on zoas (reef_pets, order looks great btw), I noticed that some of the zoas I was bidding on jumped way up in price, much faster than others of the same size. I was wondering if those were known to be more expensive, and so more people were taking advantage of the auction prices.

Right now, I have no idea of the names of the zoas I have, but I wonder if I should be keeping up with what is what, so if I ever frag in the future to trade or give away, I should know what they are called.

You will never know what zoa you're getting lol or the right name. Recently I posted a pic of a zoa on another site and named it what they told me it was and in a few days I had 3 zoa big online retailers telling me it was their morph to rename it right lolol. Every big retailer supposedly has their own morph. Just like some others rename easier to find z&p something else to charge more.

On ebay for example I purchased 3 polyps of a rainbow for $15 and when i look on a big online store they were selling the same zoa for $150 pp.

Unfortunately the name game is ridiculous and every tank is different so since in some tank an eagle eye gets a white spot its called super spotted white dragon fires chaotic destruction and from $1 a polyp it goes up to $100pp but it changed in that persons tank and they change the name. But it's still an eagle eye with a white spot lol.

I used to buy for the name but since my tank is full I'm more selective and I've been able to find the same thing cheaper somewhere else. Remember the colors or zoa you like and look around you will always find it cheap somewhere.

 

[KafudaFish]

I think the last two posts summarize extremely well one of the biggest limitations and issues when using common names to “describe” a zoa color morph. There was a thread on here recently discussing how common names are good at communicating and describing what one is buying but is it really? This goes back to my question of availability 10 years ago vs. today. How has it changed? Sure new color morphs have come in and most of that has to do with what sells and for what price. If I am a businessman I am going to offer my customers what they want and I am going to offer it at a price that allows me to make money and stay in business. Old school no-name zoas are just as attractive as the new school bubble gum named ones. Right now zoanthid taxonomy is in flux (mainly because few people study it very much) so it is difficult to state just how many species there are out there. Also if you read taxonomy descriptions in scientific peer-reviewed literature color is mentioned but it is not the deciding factor in species identification. This goes pretty much for any animal group. If you hop over to the sps forum a majority of ID’s is based upon color and honestly that is a poor standard.

Honestly the eagle eyes color morph is a great one, been around forever, looks great in a tank and can be seen from across the room but is a cheap one because of it. As mentioned above it is put into a tank and it gets a white spot and is now named something different. I guess this would be a “rare” color morph since it comes from a single location but what happens when that $100 polyp gets put into a new tank and returns back to the old $2 polyp that it was 6 months ago? If for whatever reason the color remained with the white dot and 10 hobbyists or online stores got them and each of them re-named it and offered it up for sale how many color morphs do we have? Which name do we follow? The original one or the store that sells the most?

Is the seller being dishonest? Did the buyer get taken to the cleaners?

Just more food for thought.

Also can someone please define “rare” and “LE” for me.

 

[Joshporksandwic]

Also can someone please define "œrare" and "œLE" for me.

Rare means they will charge you 8 times the regular amount, LE means around 4-5 times and very rare LE get ready to sign your house over lol. :headwally:

 

[KafudaFish]

Yep.

 

[650-IS350]

LOLZ I would NEVER PUT a tag of RARE, LE or how ever people are putting with their cartoon names now a days to put a extra buck or to make a quicker sell. Zoanthids and palys do grow fast especially once its acclimated into YOUR tanks system and lighting.

The TRUE limited quantity not a artificially created Supply and demand piece like these corals are now a days are like Picasso paintings, 15 Karat diamond found, rare animals that are almost extinct in the wild, limited created vehicles or classic cars etc. etc. etc. I just think its funny that people compare coral to rare cars, coins, paintings etc just to justify the high prices and cartoon names. These corals aren't limited amount nor no longer growing in the wild, they're abundant out there and continue to grow once they are in our tanks, propagated. That's not limited or rare IMO. ALL MARKETING, come get it now, get it before its sold, limited amounts, be the first to get it, its 100 a polyp right now but will go to 200 once it goes up on my site.

 

[jacky]

If it's really not about supply and demand, why would the rest of the world do not have most of your named z/p ?
yes we can pay US$15 for 100polyps colony, but it's just some common one found off the beach

 

[Joshporksandwic]

They do the same with electronics one puts a good known brand on an item at its $900 then other people put a not known brand on the same thing and they sell for $500 but its made from the same people. Like LEDs they are all manufactured by the same people. They all give the same par but some people packages it better.

 

[Ladipyg]

i see z's and p's I used to pass up when I see around years go when I used to hunt around for new polyps for collection, now being renamed, blasted with crap load of led or attinics put a cartoon name then sold as limited supply high priced Per polyp corals...... SMH

You said it!! Change the name, say it's rare (another word for slow growing) and people want to line up, pay top dollar and think they have something. When the sale slows down, give it another new name, change the lighting and BAM, start it all over again.:headwalls:

 

[usmc121581]

I have always love Z's but the prices I see turns me away from them. I will never judge someone for spending x amount on something. That is the number one reason I believe prices are what they are. A few months ago I bought a 100+ colony from a guy who kept them under LED's, they looked like normal brown Z's. however was sorta shocked a few weeks later when some turned almost neon green tops, some are neon orange and others are speckled. So what can I call head now. I also won't frag any of my corals, although chances are I will have to in the next few months I won't. I enjoy seeing how I grew them all from frags and know they are fully grown. When I do have Z's or chalices break off I usually give them away for free. I am not in this hobby to get rich or make money. I like to help the next reefer like I was when I firs started.

 

[aandfsoccr04]

I just buy the zoas that I like regardless of what the price or name is. If I like them and want them then I buy them. If they are green and orange zoas. Captain America palys. Or limited edition hydroponic majical majestic polyp.

 

[Overgrown]

I just buy the zoas that I like regardless of what the price or name is. If I like them and want them then I buy them. If they are green and orange zoas. Captain America palys. Or limited edition hydroponic majical majestic polyp.

Hydro Magical Majestics?? Count me in dude!

 

[engineeronh2o]

He is a perspective I have encountered many times. Many locals have bashed the idea of named/high end zoas and palys etc. I am on an island locally and everyone knows I have a lot of overpriced, overhyped coral. I also have common coral as well. I sell some of both, and I sell a lot of $5 online locally to get their attention. They come over look in the tank and immediately point and want the high end corals. I say, "but here is the $5 frag", and then they give you that look like the light just came on... Everyone leaves understanding an Utter Chaos, Candy Apple Red etc. is 100x better, brighter, unique, etc. than any common button polyp at the LFS.