PO'd about Zoas

[19jeffro83]

You people are going to make me leave this site with this stupid argument. Who cares! Use your energy to argue something that matters. All I see on the zoanthid page of this site is bickering by a few certain individuals talking about the "good old days" and "I stopped because of". Shut it already and let people pay what they want and don't pay it yourself because you can get it for whatever. Go start this **** in the sps section and get shot down quick. You want to talk rip off. Try the little pencil eraser frags of named acros for 75-100$. I hate this and you few I'm talking about know who you are. So lets here more long winded BS on this or that was like this and now the price gouges did this and ruined that for us. Blah blah blah. You are the greedy ones that want to pillage the ocean. You are the greedy ones that think they are owed because of seniority. Captive bred annals costlier money. Yes some are over priced, just don't buy them! Simple as that. To me it sounds like a bunch of broke busters complaining because the can't buy the pretty things and only have the ugly cheap **** in there tanks. To all of you, get a new hobby because salt water tanks aren't cheap and pretty coral isn't either.
If you were so lucky to get all those big colonies for dirt cheap good for you. Maybe you all are just angry you didn't start naming them and selling them yourselves. You guys knock down purchasing "small frags" to grow out. Last I heard the word frag which is an abbreviation of fragment means a small piece of a larger object. Not half or a large piece but a small one.
I go to many fish stores in the tri state area and yes some corals and zoas are not as common and yes the pretty ones that aren't cost more money. It's up to you as a buyer to decide of its worth the money to you personally or not.
Stop with this garbage of bashing people over something so irrelevant to real life and argue something that matters. Maybe start looking at the oil prices that actually effect everyone or the fact that milk may go up to 8$ a gallon. You guys need to get a life and shut up already.

 

[Joshporksandwic]

We can't talk about milk or gas here because this is a zoa forum if not we would! LOL

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I'm gonna agree with that a million times over...

I know a LFS that sells purple hornets for 10 bucks a polyp... And another local hobbyists who sells them for 20 to 30+ per polyp... Kinda backwards for what we have been talking about here, but interesting, lol... For some reason some folks don't wana use the LFS resource, and continue to pay the 30 bucks instead...

I think communicated one's thoughts to these LFS goes a long way. I do believe in supporting them but some are just as bad as the others.

I've scene locals in person, who started with one or two polyps over two years ago, and their "mother colony" still only consists of a few polyps max... Why? Cuz they only keep them to make money...

That concerns me as I wonder what legacy we will leave for the next generation of reefers who will possibly continue this trend.

About 8 weeks ago, I sold over 30 clementines on our local forum
here... At about 5 bucks per polyp... The VERY NEXT DAY, this same fool was selling them, the same exact colony I had pictured, for 35 bucks per polyp... On the SAME LOCAL BOARD!!!


How ironic, the exact same thing happened to me. I gave away some freebies to a new reefers and sold others for little or nothing. Both ended up in the selling forum on the exact same reefing site we meet on.


It's a joke... This person is going to a local frag farmers market next month, and some of the crap he is selling for stupid prices he got from me, extremely cheap, as well as ALOT, actually most, of it free... From me...

Sorry to hear that buddy. I'm sure he will say that you sold them to him and they are his to do what he wishes, but I know how you feel


I will say again, I will no longer pay more than 20 to 30 bucks for a nice small, healed colony... But only experience and observation have made my mind up on that one... With that said, I'm reluctant to do good deeds and cilice angthing away now either...


Good luck man

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Great thread mooch! You find lots threads like this on every forum. Here in Miami there's a lot of wholesalers and a lot of Lfs. You find crazy stuff on the Lfs a lot of times cheap. I'm sure cali and other big cities with big ports are the same. The thing is that 90% of the US doesn't have access to very nice stuff like we do. So those people with no access pay the ridiculous prices. Sad to say! I'm close friends with an online retailer and I laugh when I see what people pay for stuff sometimes. I'm lucky he hooks me up if not my tank wouldn't have some of the crazy stuff it does. I don't know if that makes me a hypocrite but I keep saying it falls on the people that do not do their research and pay $200 per polyp.

Glad you enjoyed reading it. There are thread everywhere to support, disspell, discuss, inform, share on just about any topic.:thumbsup:

Yes, I have been there many times and have seen an awful lot. It's not so much the city, but the market and the location of said city and the volume of corals order and/or dollar amounts. On the contrary, and Organism can maybe atest to this if he shows up to read this, most any LFS can get access to zoas and palys. Often, x amount of dollars or x amount of corals have to be order to attain x amount this or that. A mom and pop store in Hooterville who orders a box of corals once a month isn't going to receive what a store in Miami who orders 4 boxes every other week will unless maybe and ultra premium price is paid. This is very common as the mom and pop store would surely desire and buy only the stunnig vibrant colors with their single box order.

The LFS in Michigan and the online stores have equal access to just about anything and their prices are still skyhigh.

Mucho Reef

PS. Off to watch the Allstar Game......go EAST.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

You said it!! Change the name, say it's rare (another word for slow growing) and people want to line up, pay top dollar and think they have something. When the sale slows down, give it another new name, change the lighting and BAM, start it all over again.:headwalls:

Very true, but at this point, all you can do is share the info and the facts that are out there and allow those who aren't aware to be aware. See post # 778 in the link below. How relevant as it was just posted a week or so ago.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1941053&page=32


Mucho

 

[650-IS350]

ROCK ON :debi::headwallblue::headwalls::headwally::lolspin:

 

[MUCHO REEF]

ROCK ON :debi::headwallblue::headwalls::headwally::lolspin:

Charles, LOL, you lost me with all the icons. What are you saying man with all that action above? LOL Geez

 

[650-IS350]

Just my feeling sometimes LOL

 

[Peter Eichler]

I've been resisting posting on this thread for ome time and in general try to avoid the zoanthid forum, but I just can't help it anymore... Going to try and make this quick, so excuse any typos...

1.) If you think that there are not many more morphs available now compared to years ago in the hobby (the 90's) you're wrong. I spent many hours at various wholesalers and saw many many massive shipments come and go. The color varieties available in the hobby for both wild colonies and propagated specimens far surpasses that of years ago.

2.) Actual colonies of most of the really outstanding zoanthids in the hobby are quite rare. The polyps themselves in many cases have become pretty common thanks to propagation and in some cases due to the few colonies that do come in being snapped up quickly and divided, but it's not as common as some people in this thread seem to think. Just like any coral there are more common and less common color morphs, even some relatively rare morphs. One of the great things about zoanthids is even the morphs that are fairly rare will eventually become fairly common.

3.) Yes, there are a lot of obnoxious people in the hobby inflating prices and doing whatever they can to keep prices inflated. They're also taking advantage of people that don't know any better.

4.) Those prices simply will not stay inflated as supply catches up with demand. To even suggest that supply and demand is not a large factor in this is wrong. I've seen many polyps drop massively in price as time goes on, especially with the fast growers. Purple death go for a buck or two a polyp or in most cases a set and reasonable price for a little colony, red hornets can be had for $10 or less a polyp all day now, many many other polyps have dropped greatly in price compared to when they first got noticed/popular.

5.) Like many arguments, the extremes on both ends are a little "off" in their thinking. The truth lies somewhere between.

Sorry Mucho and Charles, I love you guys, but I think you're trying to offset the craziness a bit by aligning yourselves on the other end of the extreme.

 

[Joshporksandwic]

Mucho where is hooterville? I want to go buy frags there!!!!
O.O

 

[19jeffro83]

Well said Peter.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Hey Peter, long time, good to see your reply. I will reply tomorrow and stop being a stranger.


Mucho

 

[650-IS350]

Peter good to see you bud.

Everyone has opinions. Yours I respect here and other forums at a higher degree more than others. I agree with you for most part on most of your take.

1- Sure there are more " new morphs and new morphs of the older morphs coming in now a days.

2- It is RARE to these nice COLONIES BECAUSE , they do get cherry picked at the source, tranship and the warehouses by vendors, etailers and folks with business licenses who run operations outta there garages. Then they get chopped, sold at a limited amount per polyp. posted and hyped on every coral forum out there with insane asking prices with so rational of Supply and Demand.

3- SO SO SO True, it wasn't as prevalent before now more than ever.

4. Some of those old school polyps were still selling at 20-40 per polyp at websites when most reefers were selling them for much cheaper. back then, when the Hornets became so abundant people knew they couldn't ask for the 300 plus range when others were selling them for quite cheaper. Which why some had stories of other reefers getting mad at others for selling for such a cheaper prices which crashed the market.

5 - I used to be in the middle as you remember when I used to help out ID'ing every Z's and P's there, Sharing my master list of every Etailer, website you can buy and find nice Z's and P's at, I also used to help out at other forums.
Hell I used to buy Z's and P's at a higher price cause I wanted them but when I finally woke up and saw the bigger picture and not the now.. I stopped all of that.

Peter you are well respected, helped a lot in this forum and a have a wealth of knowledge in Z's and P's. Please do come by more often and see you on the threads. I got lots of love for you and what you have done for the Zoanthid Forum. I know this place and its' enthusiasts can learn lots from you too.

 

[Peter Eichler]

Thanks for the kind words! Sadly there are just so many folks that just want to collect zoas like they're trading cards. Very few want to learn anything scientific, or could even care less what the genus and species of their polyp might be. They just want to know where they should place it so it can grow faster and then frag their 12 polyp "colony" into 6 frags.

I know it's not everyone, and there's really nothing wrong with it, enjoy the hobby how you like. but there are enough people with that attitude that it makes the forum less fun and interesting for me. So, rather than always being curmudgeon like I spare you guys

 

[Chriskid]

i look for sps species, not names, what are zoa,paly species?

 

[eg8r210]

Sadly there are just so many folks that just want to collect zoas like they're trading cards. Very few want to learn anything scientific, or could even care less what the genus and species of their polyp might be. They just want to know where they should place it so it can grow faster and then frag their 12 polyp "colony" into 6 frags.

I know it's not everyone, and there's really nothing wrong with it, enjoy the hobby how you like. but there are enough people with that attitude that it makes the forum less fun and interesting for me. So, rather than always being curmudgeon like I spare you guys

I would call this condescending. Is the hobby not big enough for everyone? Millions of people drive a car and don't care about the science behind how it moves and are not out trying to profit but rather just enjoy it.

I don't know you and this is one of the few posts of yours I have read. I really like the other one in this thread but this one feels more like a pity party. Definitely doesn't seem like the same person in just these two posts.

I will be honest, I really don't care about the genus and species of my polyps. What I care about is whether I like the colors and if it will grow in my tank sucessfully. It is sad that as a person who enjoys the hobby for its beauty I don't meet the lofty expectations you require in order to participate in discussion.

Surely I am just missing something from your post.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Hey Peter, couldn't reply yesterday, I lost my uncle.

I did type out a reply today and it is long, I mean very long. I agree with most of what you said and some I disagree on and yep, we're still friends. If you want me to post it I will as it was directed to your reply only. No, don't wanna be begged, it's just very long. Hey I can even send it privately.

Hey man, we love you too, you know that, but it's not just Charles and I, whom I also respect, but I just counted 10 people on the first page alone who feel the same way and I'm sure there are many many more in the link below. This topic is as revelant as this link below from the reef discussion forum entitled, "When did the hobby change from showpieces to frags?...". This thread has nearly 800 replies and was created over 2 years ago and it's still active today.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1941053

I always say they truth is the truth, it just depends on whose truth you choose to believe. I'm honestly not aligning with anything to argue as this thread is not an argument, it is however a very detailed, passionate and lenghty discussion. I highly, I mean highly respect everyone's passion for expressing thier feelings on this topic as long as they do so respectfully and will defend their right to do so for or against. How boring life would be if we all agreed on everything.

I will try to post more in a couple of days, but man stop the curmudgeon ( self-depricating ) talk , and come on over, sit down, take off your shoes and stay a while yah here. Every opinion is welcomed. Ok, enough with all this Bro-mance talk, LOL, stop laughing, see yah around man.

Mooch

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Mucho where is hooterville? I want to go buy frags there!!!!
O.O

It's way out in the Boonies man.

Just a figure of speech

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Peter good to see you bud.

Everyone has opinions. Yours I respect here and other forums at a higher degree more than others. I agree with you for most part on most of your take.

1- Sure there are more " new morphs and new morphs of the older morphs coming in now a days.

2- It is RARE to these nice COLONIES BECAUSE , they do get cherry picked at the source, tranship and the warehouses by vendors, etailers and folks with business licenses who run operations outta there garages. Then they get chopped, sold at a limited amount per polyp. posted and hyped on every coral forum out there with insane asking prices with so rational of Supply and Demand.

3- SO SO SO True, it wasn't as prevalent before now more than ever.

4. Some of those old school polyps were still selling at 20-40 per polyp at websites when most reefers were selling them for much cheaper. back then, when the Hornets became so abundant people knew they couldn't ask for the 300 plus range when others were selling them for quite cheaper. Which why some had stories of other reefers getting mad at others for selling for such a cheaper prices which crashed the market.

5 - I used to be in the middle as you remember when I used to help out ID'ing every Z's and P's there, Sharing my master list of every Etailer, website you can buy and find nice Z's and P's at, I also used to help out at other forums.
Hell I used to buy Z's and P's at a higher price cause I wanted them but when I finally woke up and saw the bigger picture and not the now.. I stopped all of that.

Peter you are well respected, helped a lot in this forum and a have a wealth of knowledge in Z's and P's. Please do come by more often and see you on the threads. I got lots of love for you and what you have done for the Zoanthid Forum. I know this place and its' enthusiasts can learn lots from you too.

I would have to say that I agree with your post in its entirety.

Mooch

 

[Peter Eichler]

I would call this condescending. Is the hobby not big enough for everyone? Millions of people drive a car and don't care about the science behind how it moves and are not out trying to profit but rather just enjoy it.

I don't know you and this is one of the few posts of yours I have read. I really like the other one in this thread but this one feels more like a pity party. Definitely doesn't seem like the same person in just these two posts.

I will be honest, I really don't care about the genus and species of my polyps. What I care about is whether I like the colors and if it will grow in my tank sucessfully. It is sad that as a person who enjoys the hobby for its beauty I don't meet the lofty expectations you require in order to participate in discussion.

Surely I am just missing something from your post.

All I was saying is that it's a little more common in this forum to not care about the science nehind the hobby, and even have blatant disregard for it. I enjoy that aspect of the hobby greatly so I tend to not post in this forum much, or at least not as much as I used to. I enjoy collecting different colors of zoanthids, but the hobbyist that is basically dedicated to collecting zoanthids isn't someone I want to interact with as much as others in the hobby.

The hobby is absolutely big enough for everyone... However, using your car analogy... I'm a big car enthusiast, I like performance mods, fast cars, track dricing, and more techical things with cars. There are Prius and Minivans owners that participate in car forums and are enthusiats when it comes to their car, but honestly as I'm concerned we're different kind of enthusiasts and in most cases I don't think you're much of a car enthusiast if you drive one of those cars.

Call it snobbery, or condesecnding, I don't care. There's room for them in the car enthusiast community, but I don't care how many MPG you got with your Prius last week. I also don't want to have discussion about a "paly" that isn't even a freaking palythoa.