Regarding post # 100 on the previous page, Ooooooh........wow........how sad !!!!
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PO'd about Zoas
- Thread starter daninflipflops
- Start date
You see, that's part of the game. Before 2004/2005, you didn't see these tiny frag pics posted all over the net with 1 to 3 polyps. Google zoanthid pictures, every picture is a tiny frag. The allure now is to shoot a super macro pictures flooded with LEDs or actinics, and they'll sell you a whole bunch of exciting hogwash, then they yank the hook, and before you know it, you've paid 50 times more than what it's worth and depending upon who it came from and how it was cared for and fragged, it will die within a week. Sure, they'll be happy to replace it over and over again and hope one lives. Do you know why? They have already made so much money off of you with that one purchase, they can replace it multiple times, and usually you'll pay the shipping, and they will still make a killing off of you. That is until you get them home and place them in your tank and your jaw drops, cause they look absolutely nothing like that doctored picture. Have heard and seen it hundreds of times.
I can take the most unattractive polyps in aquaria, placed them under optimal lighting, and I will make them look like The Hope Diamond.
MOOCH
Please read and compare post # 1 and post # 5.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=883182&highlight=franken
This happens everyday, and the con game continues while the seller just laughs to the bank.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=883182&highlight=franken
This happens everyday, and the con game continues while the seller just laughs to the bank.
A. Grandis
Active member
Dan, I want to share a true story with you, and believe me, I have many. I shared this with a member here, ( Kichimark ) just over a year ago so he can vouch for the validity of this true story.
Over a year ago, I was contacted by a young college student from California. He was having some issues wih his zoa and palys. As always, I go through a series of Q & A to hone in on the issues at hand. Upon solving his problem, he began the whole speel listing every name of every thing he had and just how rare they were. I was somewhat bothered that he knew names, prices, rarity, LE and the lineage of all of his polyps, but he didn't know what cyano was nor how to get rid of it. We continued to talk as I had already seen pictures of his tank, and I already knew about everything in it. So I ask him to send me some macro pics of all of his named and rare zoas and palys he spoke of. I waited a day, and then they arrrived.
Keep in mind, this was his very first tank, he's a college student, 20 years old and on a limited budget. If I recall correctly, it was a 29 gallon tank, he took on a second job on the weekends just to buy it. Upon seeing the pictures, I called him and broke the news. I remember it vividly as the conversation grew silent after the first minute. When he told me that he had paid $ 600 for a total 8 frags with 3 to 5 polyps on still white frag plugs, I simply lost it, within seconds, so did he. I told him that he had been hoodwinked just as so many others are every day of the week. He said what do you mean? I told him the polyps he had were not rare, they were very common and prevelent when I joined the hobby 19 years prior, there is no such thing as lineage and LE, and I directed him to several threads right here on RC where we have debunked those lies. All of his polyps were brown, pale green, dull burgundy and pale yellow. These are the very polyps we use to give away at the frag swaps if someone purchased something more colorful. He didn't believe me, so I did as I always do, I told him to go to his PC. That's when I directed him to date and time stamped pictures of the majority of his polyps, most of which were in bad shape. After a few seconds of silence, I could hear loud cursing and things breaking. This young innocent college student was now crying as he had been played for $ 600 for polyps worth at best a total of $ 40.
He tore off his canopy, smashed something made of glass until I stopped him. He was reduced to tears and couldn't believe someone would do that to him. He thanked me profusely and dismantled his tank the next day and gave those few surviving polyps to the LFS. There are hundreds if not thopusands of others just like him who have absolutely no idea that they too have been taken. Now I am seeing brown zoas on plugs being sold for top dollar as well, REALLY people, really. This is really sad.
These names and prices have reduced the hobby as it relates to zoas and palys, to baseball cards or beanie babies. All sitting in an aquarium with minimal live rock like curio cabinents. The reason names are so important nowadays, is because when someone wants to trade this little plug for that little plug, they now know what to call it. What many don't understand is this, you are actually hastening the demise of those polyps. They have already been prematurely fragged, excessive fragged, improperly fragged, you don't know who had them before you and for how long, you don't know how long they were in one system or another before being moved again and again.........but you do indeed know their names. Does anyone realize just how detrimental stress is to corals? Corals don't move from spot to spot in the ocean. The next time someone sells you something and tells you it's a very fast grower, ask them to see a picture of their tank or that mother colony which grows so fast as they all claim.
And finally, if someone is selling something with their name in front of it, you too are about to be ripped off. It's all part of the name game.
MUCHO REEF
PS. to everyone else, just read every reply and link in this thread and decide for yourself if you will be a part of the lies and deception anymore.
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kichimark
Μολὼν λαβ
Yup, I remember that clearly. Poor kid, if he would have lived closer to me I would give him some freebie zoas, especially since he was a newbie.
commonly named ones sell for a premium. it helps people know what color morph they are. telling someone you have purple hornets allows them to k ow what they look like, otherwise your selling purple with yellow zoas. nobody would know without looking at them what they were.
there's lots of places online that use universally common names. I have when coral rippers like mrcoral just create new names on a whim when most of them are already named. same with color Morpheus and patterns on clownfish
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
there's lots of places online that use universally common names. I have when coral rippers like mrcoral just create new names on a whim when most of them are already named. same with color Morpheus and patterns on clownfish
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
mrbigshot, hey, thanks for the reply.
In my opinion, I see no differentiation in commonly named polyps verse uncommonly named polyps. Take a look at this thread you replied to today.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2249053
I count 11 or 12 polyps, they appeard happy, full bodied and upright. The price was $ 25, that frag is worth $ 20 to $ 22, plus he got a birdsnest. Wow, that is just great, but I can assure you if you and I looked long and hard enough, we can find someone else selling them for $ 25 per polyp and calling them something totally different. Here's my point, if we need names to help identify them so you know what you're geeting, then how were we ( I ) able to sell frags to the 4 corners of this country prior to 2006 when these names started. From 1992 to 2006, we had no names, so how did we do it? Reefers have now become collectors. Only buying something long enough to keep it a few weeks and to sell it or frag off a single polyp to the next guy. If one is a reefer, and buys something to keep it and enjoys it, why is a name sooo important? I mean, I use to send a picture and that was back in the day. Now everyone has a camera phone, it should be even more common to do now than before. These names help foster the lies and false claims that rips people off. Please read the story above of the college student.
Regarding you second paragraph, most all are doing it now. Corals that don't sell because they don't have a name, are given a made up name that the owners literally laugh at this practice, and the next day, someone buys it.
Reefers who came into this hobby after 2005/2006 simply have no clue of this, but I can assure you, many people are reverting back to just sending a picture. I have not, I have never, nor will I ever spend one second learning a web site full of names. I respect everyone's right to if that is what they want out of reefing. I am simply saying, there is sooooo much more to reefing.
I wish reefer would go back to buying corals, securing them to a reef, minus the round or square intrusive plug, and just allowing them to grow and cover the reef. I don't expect any and everyone to think and feel as I do, that's not my point, I just want to place this issue in perspective with what is reefing and what will enhance your longevity in reefing for years to come. I can you, names will not do that for you....ever.
Thanks for the comment and I would love to hear more from you on this topic.
MUCHO REEF
PS. we are all just stating our opinions here.
In my opinion, I see no differentiation in commonly named polyps verse uncommonly named polyps. Take a look at this thread you replied to today.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2249053
I count 11 or 12 polyps, they appeard happy, full bodied and upright. The price was $ 25, that frag is worth $ 20 to $ 22, plus he got a birdsnest. Wow, that is just great, but I can assure you if you and I looked long and hard enough, we can find someone else selling them for $ 25 per polyp and calling them something totally different. Here's my point, if we need names to help identify them so you know what you're geeting, then how were we ( I ) able to sell frags to the 4 corners of this country prior to 2006 when these names started. From 1992 to 2006, we had no names, so how did we do it? Reefers have now become collectors. Only buying something long enough to keep it a few weeks and to sell it or frag off a single polyp to the next guy. If one is a reefer, and buys something to keep it and enjoys it, why is a name sooo important? I mean, I use to send a picture and that was back in the day. Now everyone has a camera phone, it should be even more common to do now than before. These names help foster the lies and false claims that rips people off. Please read the story above of the college student.
Regarding you second paragraph, most all are doing it now. Corals that don't sell because they don't have a name, are given a made up name that the owners literally laugh at this practice, and the next day, someone buys it.
Reefers who came into this hobby after 2005/2006 simply have no clue of this, but I can assure you, many people are reverting back to just sending a picture. I have not, I have never, nor will I ever spend one second learning a web site full of names. I respect everyone's right to if that is what they want out of reefing. I am simply saying, there is sooooo much more to reefing.
I wish reefer would go back to buying corals, securing them to a reef, minus the round or square intrusive plug, and just allowing them to grow and cover the reef. I don't expect any and everyone to think and feel as I do, that's not my point, I just want to place this issue in perspective with what is reefing and what will enhance your longevity in reefing for years to come. I can you, names will not do that for you....ever.
Thanks for the comment and I would love to hear more from you on this topic.
MUCHO REEF
PS. we are all just stating our opinions here.
SnapDragon
Member
I haven't been on RC for awhile but enjoyed reading this post as it is still an intense topic. First and foremost, MUCHO and A. Grandis are both two of my favorite reefers on RC and I love reading their comments.
This is my opinion and since I remember the days before ceramic frag plugs existed I hope it will help with both sides.
I remember when zoanthids were named at first to tell the difference between one zoanthid and another. Most of the names I can remember had nothing to do with greed or hype but rather to distinguish one zoanthid from another. I can guarantee you that you cannot explain all the AMAZING different color morphs of zoanthids by saying their color alone. It is impossible!!! That is why we all love zoanthids. There are so many different ones. Unfortunately some are insanely priced period.
As for the names, I love some of the names as far as telling them apart. I HATE that people are renaming things over and over just to make more money.
One thing MUCHO and A. Grandis that I think can be very confusing though for most reefers is when mentioned that these morphs are common and not rare (which by the way I don't really think anyone can use the term "rare" since they don't actually know), it is super hard for people to understand because the LFS aren't bringing them in by the droves. Actually if you ask most of the LFS if they could even get a colony of "Candy Apple Reds" which you mentioned before MUCHO that you had way back before they ever had a name slapped on them, the LFS are going to say "we haven't ever even seen those let alone received them".
I know from experience from shopping at many LFS that NONE of them have had many of the different morphs for sale. They do get nice zoanthids though every once in awhile, but I think what is super hard is that the zoanthids people really are looking for aren't easy to find locally. If they were so easy to find I don't think everyone would be charging astronomical prices for various morphs.
Bottom line is I think some zoanthids are very difficult to find colonies of as I don't think there is a plethora of each colony available at all LFS's, if so the price would go down because everyone has the same ones.
I think there has to be a change as far as renaming goes, and I think zoanthids have come down in price especially since the $600 a polyp craze that seemed to start it all. Either way I wish I could find all these amazing morphs in colonies at my LFS's but alas it hasn't happened yet, even after 10 years
I think this is a great discussion and am interested to know if anyone can find colonies of these crazy zoanthids on a regular basis. I know I have not been able to do so. Back to naming though, I understand why the name game has its purpose, unfortunately it has been abused.
This is my opinion and since I remember the days before ceramic frag plugs existed I hope it will help with both sides.
I remember when zoanthids were named at first to tell the difference between one zoanthid and another. Most of the names I can remember had nothing to do with greed or hype but rather to distinguish one zoanthid from another. I can guarantee you that you cannot explain all the AMAZING different color morphs of zoanthids by saying their color alone. It is impossible!!! That is why we all love zoanthids. There are so many different ones. Unfortunately some are insanely priced period.
As for the names, I love some of the names as far as telling them apart. I HATE that people are renaming things over and over just to make more money.
One thing MUCHO and A. Grandis that I think can be very confusing though for most reefers is when mentioned that these morphs are common and not rare (which by the way I don't really think anyone can use the term "rare" since they don't actually know), it is super hard for people to understand because the LFS aren't bringing them in by the droves. Actually if you ask most of the LFS if they could even get a colony of "Candy Apple Reds" which you mentioned before MUCHO that you had way back before they ever had a name slapped on them, the LFS are going to say "we haven't ever even seen those let alone received them".
I know from experience from shopping at many LFS that NONE of them have had many of the different morphs for sale. They do get nice zoanthids though every once in awhile, but I think what is super hard is that the zoanthids people really are looking for aren't easy to find locally. If they were so easy to find I don't think everyone would be charging astronomical prices for various morphs.
Bottom line is I think some zoanthids are very difficult to find colonies of as I don't think there is a plethora of each colony available at all LFS's, if so the price would go down because everyone has the same ones.
I think there has to be a change as far as renaming goes, and I think zoanthids have come down in price especially since the $600 a polyp craze that seemed to start it all. Either way I wish I could find all these amazing morphs in colonies at my LFS's but alas it hasn't happened yet, even after 10 years
I think this is a great discussion and am interested to know if anyone can find colonies of these crazy zoanthids on a regular basis. I know I have not been able to do so. Back to naming though, I understand why the name game has its purpose, unfortunately it has been abused.
ingtar_shinowa
New member
Snap, perfectly said, I have to much snark to say something that insightful. On a similar note my LFS started getting in colonies of lunar eclipse palys (Orange skirted dark blue/black palythoa) and its a fair price, thats the only 'named' zoas ive seen in a decade there. The LFS owner was telling me the other day 10 years ago he would get in scolys and couldn't give them away, its just how fads go in this hobby.
A. Grandis
Active member
I haven't been on RC for awhile but enjoyed reading this post as it is still an intense topic. First and foremost, MUCHO and A. Grandis are both two of my favorite reefers on RC and I love reading their comments.
This is my opinion and since I remember the days before ceramic frag plugs existed I hope it will help with both sides.
I remember when zoanthids were named at first to tell the difference between one zoanthid and another. Most of the names I can remember had nothing to do with greed or hype but rather to distinguish one zoanthid from another. I can guarantee you that you cannot explain all the AMAZING different color morphs of zoanthids by saying their color alone. It is impossible!!! That is why we all love zoanthids. There are so many different ones. Unfortunately some are insanely priced period.
As for the names, I love some of the names as far as telling them apart. I HATE that people are renaming things over and over just to make more money.
One thing MUCHO and A. Grandis that I think can be very confusing though for most reefers is when mentioned that these morphs are common and not rare (which by the way I don't really think anyone can use the term "rare" since they don't actually know), it is super hard for people to understand because the LFS aren't bringing them in by the droves. Actually if you ask most of the LFS if they could even get a colony of "Candy Apple Reds" which you mentioned before MUCHO that you had way back before they ever had a name slapped on them, the LFS are going to say "we haven't ever even seen those let alone received them".
I know from experience from shopping at many LFS that NONE of them have had many of the different morphs for sale. They do get nice zoanthids though every once in awhile, but I think what is super hard is that the zoanthids people really are looking for aren't easy to find locally. If they were so easy to find I don't think everyone would be charging astronomical prices for various morphs.
Bottom line is I think some zoanthids are very difficult to find colonies of as I don't think there is a plethora of each colony available at all LFS's, if so the price would go down because everyone has the same ones.
I think there has to be a change as far as renaming goes, and I think zoanthids have come down in price especially since the $600 a polyp craze that seemed to start it all. Either way I wish I could find all these amazing morphs in colonies at my LFS's but alas it hasn't happened yet, even after 10 years
I think this is a great discussion and am interested to know if anyone can find colonies of these crazy zoanthids on a regular basis. I know I have not been able to do so. Back to naming though, I understand why the name game has its purpose, unfortunately it has been abused.
Thanks for your kind words, SnapDragon!
I do respect the choices of many to use the cartoon names. I respect the fact that many like to talk about zoas by the cartoon names because they see that as a much easier way, without the difficulties related to their scientific IDs (basically impossible!). Understandable, of course. If I don't like/care for the cartoon names that's my personal choice. When I see a picture I just appreciate the colors and shapes, not caring much for what they're called by many. Not a big deal at all. That is why there is no hate against those who are in the market selling and using those names either. We can't just judge them because of something so normal nowadays, right? That's what it is now. It will be really hard to change and probably impossible after a while. No problem. That's "innocent reefing", per say. Specially coming from hobbyists/ newbies. It can be fun actually.
I also understand that in the wild there are those hard-to-find morphs of zoanthids. Just like corals. It wouldn't be fair to say the opposite.
Some times we could even find things never found and never posted anywhere to the best of our knowledge! Not kidding!!! We all know that. That's not the point. Yes, rare zoas do exist. :spin2:
Basically the problem with the "rare" named zoas we're talking about is when they aren't rare at all and the cartoon names help the sellers to get those buyers in their traps. Best example that comes to my mind now is the "deep water japanese zoas". Remember?
I wouldn't think there is anything wrong with a real rare colony found and called rare. That would be rude of my part, to say the least.
Problem comes when they lie and stamp their frags as "special edition", "rare" and so on... Then new cartoon names needed, etc... Pollution in the market. I'm sure we all agree with that. Some could even say that "rare" is relative too. It could be rare in one place and not in another.
The point here, is that a bigger picture comes after those specific cases when there are lies for $$$$. Generally speaking the "name game" is what that's about.
In general, the natural tendency of the cartoon names is to increase the market's price$ every day that goes by. And that's not "innocent reefing" anymore IMO!
About the changes (renaming) in cartoon names: unfortunately there is nothing to do for that. It's part of the game! The price that buyers pay for. They aren't official (scientific terms) anyway, so anyone can name them anything. One more reason to me not to trust/use that type of nomenclature. I'm sorry but that's the way it is and will be with cartoon names. Many times they will change also to try to grab some newbie and $ell it for more: "name game".
Pollution comes into the hobby strong nowadays! People don't have a reef anymore, but a bunch of frags all over the tank thinking/hoping for them to grow fast and make a profit out of it?! Those are still called hobbyists by many. That I can't understand, I'm sorry. They need to tell us in what category they want to be. Before people would frag to give it as a gift or exchange with friends. Now it's very, very different. I see that as pollution. Not to be rude to others, just to express myself, felling disgusted about it. BUT still don't have any hard feelings for them and I know many kids that are enjoying their "underwater fruit stands". I don't think that's the right thing to do but you know what? No problem at all... This is a hobby and I want to make friends and enjoy, ignoring those type of problems.
Nobody is perfect and people are everywhere!
The main reason I participate in this is because I do believe the truth needs to be spoken. Am I going to change it? Well, I just hope I can shake it a little, yes! LOL!!!
MUCHO has been showing a great deal of important info about the subject in depth. I'm sure he'll come in with more after this...
Thanks very much for the interesting thoughts! :thumbsup:
Please keep it rolling...
:bounce1::bounce3::bounce2::bounce1::bounce3:
Grandis.
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I remember when zoanthids were named at first to tell the difference between one zoanthid and another. Most of the names I can remember had nothing to do with greed or hype but rather to distinguish one zoanthid from another.
I agree sir, and it just goes to show how something that was created as a helpful means can be used in a negative manner and can also give entree to what we see taking place today, price gouging.
I can guarantee you that you cannot explain all the AMAZING different color morphs of zoanthids by saying their color alone. It is impossible!!! That is why we all love zoanthids. There are so many different ones. Unfortunately some are insanely priced period.
I hear you, and I agree 100%.....and who says you have to. No one can keep all of them, so how many does one need to describe? Prior to 2005, there were literally thousands of them on the market, and we never needed names. Does anyone see this point? So how did the hobby survived? How did we readily buy and get anything we wanted? We sent a picture, that's how. You can't rely on a name, as so many here have already explained that, because the same morph can have 4 or 5 different names? This is a trick to hype those same polyps so you'll want those too....and they're the same ones you already have. Has anyone ever wondered why, after 7 or 8 years of names and price gouging, you never see any pictures ( FTS ) of mature zoanthids colonies? Sure, you might see 2 or 3. However, before gouging, chop shopping and names, it was just the opposite and you saw tanks full of mature mother colonies everywhere and that was the norm. Someone stated in another thread, "names and the sky high prices have helped the zoanthid hobby". Really ? Really ? I personally...personally know of dozens upon dozens of reefers who have left this hobby because of price gouging, sky high per polyp prices and names and I'm next in line. Every zoa forum on the net is either dead, dying, with no discussions at all and if there are discussions, it's about names, ID's, Pictures, and hype. This forum is the most active of them all. So where and how has names, sky high prices and gouging helped the hobby as it relates again, to zoas and plays?
Question - does anyone buy polyps sight unseen and solely based upon a name? If you do, you've made your fist mistake. Aren't you relying on someone's pictures anyway? Going to a web site and spending hours on end learning every name posted, and being the first one to call it out by name when a pic of it is posted somewhere, in my opinion, is now what reefing is. You don't need to preoccupy yourself with learning names, you will progress faster and further by learning about husbandry 101 and 202 which namers never ever seem to discuss. Please explain to me, how on earth did Geoxman acquire and mature everything in his system to near full maturity?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1274521&highlight=geoxman
He doesn't know a single name. He didn't ask for a single name when he purchased these beauties, and by the same token, we wasn't trying to amass every polyp that Little Timmy and Petter the Polyp Pimper flashes in the for sale thread with super saturate actinics and macros.
A lot of reefers would have and could have been more accepting of names if they didn't foster all the con artist we see today. I am current talking with a reefer offline about this and he had to admit that he never knew all of this and he and his entire family have decided to never buy into these lies again.
As for the names, I love some of the names as far as telling them apart. I HATE that people are renaming things over and over just to make more money.
I personally would have been cool with it too, but it's killing the hobby and promoting retail, not reefing. I want to preserve the hobby as it relates to this forum.
One thing MUCHO and A. Grandis that I think can be very confusing though for most reefers is when mentioned that these morphs are common and not rare (which by the way I don't really think anyone can use the term "rare" since they don't actually know), it is super hard for people to understand because the LFS aren't bringing them in by the droves. Actually if you ask most of the LFS if they could even get a colony of "Candy Apple Reds" which you mentioned before MUCHO that you had way back before they ever had a name slapped on them, the LFS are going to say "we haven't ever even seen those let alone received them".
Applause applause:thumbsup: my friend. You're hitting the nail on the head. The average reefer only mentions the word rare is because of the price gouger who told him that we he/she bought it, or they simply have to repeat it, so when they produce a new polyp to frag and sell, they too can say, "yep, it's rare". And as A. Calfo said below...
"Message-board bandwagon jumpers create a fallacious environment with their hype, which ignorant (as in "œnot-knowing") and/or impressionable aquarists then accept as the real state of the hobby. This is hardly the case at large, yet the outspoken minority would have you cover your eyes with one hand and stick out your wallet with the other to belong to the "œpopular" coral club. It's funny to me that such traders and sellers so freely label some animals as "œultra" this, and "œrare" that without ever having been to a reef, worked as a transhipper or importer, or having any real qualifications otherwise for making such statements."
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-02/ac/index.php
The overwhelming majority of what you are seeing in the hobby today is not rare. If someone is using the term rare, then quantify it's usage. If the only LFS in 300 miles in any direction of you says it's rare, it's still not rare. Why? If and since they are limited in what they can purchase, maintain etc, then everything they see can be labeled rare. But rare is not the optimal word.....Just say we don't see anything like this around here because we are a smaller market......and that is a more factual account, isn't it? BUT IT AIN'T RARE.
I know from experience from shopping at many LFS that NONE of them have had many of the different morphs for sale. They do get nice zoanthids though every once in awhile, but I think what is super hard is that the zoanthids people really are looking for aren't easy to find locally. If they were so easy to find I don't think everyone would be charging astronomical prices for various morphs.
My friend, no one is really charging these prices because these polyps are easier or harder to find. Please let me say this, please forgive me if I am comming across arrogant, cocky etc or anything of that nature...I can absolutely assure you that I'm not and that is not me. That said, I will allow someone else here who will answer this question. How are zoas and palys aquired from the ocean? I mean, the whole process from there to here. Also, does anyone here truly think the divers who make mere pennies in my opinion, are swimming around looking for ( insert name here ) palythoas because Timmy is low on the ( insert name here ) back in the states? Divers don't know what they will find until they dive. This is why you will see floods of the same polyps hiting LFS at the same time. Often by regions and at other times all over the country. Still other times it will be a scattering a numerous different pieces. You can expect a LFS to be full stocked and restocked each week or month with the exact same morphs. Do you know that many reefers think polyps are brought up from the ocen floor as 2 and 3 polyps fragments? There are reefers who don't know they grow to massive colonizations. Charles, I know you're there bro, I know you're tired, but chime in just once for me.
Bottom line is I think some zoanthids are very difficult to find colonies of as I don't think there is a plethora of each colony available at all LFS's, if so the price would go down because everyone has the same ones.
But this is not the reason the prices are high. There are tens of thousands of different zoas and plays. What is the capacity of the average LFS. I have been to some LFS who didn't have the capacity I had here at home. Prices shot up because of opportunistics and gougers. Now those gougers, and some even tried to convince me until I shut them down in private when they couldn't answer a single question without lying. As long as people keep believing the hype, paying these prices, focusing on knowing their polyps name and not there captive care, you are going to always see reefers paying $ 20 to hundreds of dollars for the exact same polyps which use to sell for $ 30 to $45 for a baseball to softball size piece of live with 50 to 100 polyps of THE EXACT SAME POLYPS.
I think this is one of the best threads ever created here on RC. Everyone who reads or has read it is in some way changed. There are things in this thread which will blow you away. Just read 2 pages a day, and you to will have a revelation that we all had. It's long, but just keep reading it.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1941053
I think there has to be a change as far as renaming goes, and I think zoanthids have come down in price especially since the $600 a polyp craze that seemed to start it all. Either way I wish I could find all these amazing morphs in colonies at my LFS's but alas it hasn't happened yet, even after 10 years
Well, there is a way you can do that my friend. They have tried to condition the market that you have to keep buying more and more and more. Cartoon names only helps to usher or should I say, nurture this process along. Every tank is limited in space, correct? I mean, how many can one reefer keep in 70 gallon tank? A,G, said it best, these tanks have been reduced to "underwater Fruit carts/stands". Reefing isn't about how much you physically own/aquire/ or attain. I have seen those people time and time again crash tank after tank after tank, Killing perfectly healthy frags and colonies over and over again. Last year I simply had to say no to a local reefer when I found out he was only in this for fast profits and quick turnover. His corals kept dying, over and over a again. Then I paid him an unexpected visit and saw his set up.....he was a chop shopper.
I think this is a great discussion and am interested to know if anyone can find colonies of these crazy zoanthids on a regular basis. I know I have not been able to do so. Back to naming though, I understand why the name game has its purpose, unfortunately it has been abused.
My friend I thank you big time for your post. Please, don't take anything I say as an endless attempt to change yours or anyone's mind. I want the truth to be told as many others have said the exact same, and if that in some way has an affect, then fine, but I am still gonna chat with you one way or the other respectfully.
There is a way to find what you want like to old days. There is a way to get those mature colonies we saw everywhere and every single day for 15 years before the advent of gouging and names. I'll share it later.
MUCHO REEF
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Well that pretty much stinks on many levels and I hope you change your mind.
It's true KafudaFish.
Hey Snap, I see I forgot to add something and I'm only throwing this out there. If names are needed so desperately before a reefer makes a new purchase, so they know what to ask for when they go to place an order, then why are there more request for names even after the purchase has been made, i.e. the ID sub forum above? I mean, if you already own it, what purpose does the ID now serve? Not picking here, it just dawned on me to ask.
MUCHO REEF
Happy New Year everyone
Chriskid
New member
why would you do that? it actually sounds childish.(like im taking my ball and going home) you said it yourself if you dont like the game you dont have to play it. i would stay in this hobby no matter what anyone says. and im creeping on 15 years myself. and also reading more dribble then helpfull info, mostly on my home town club forum. why cant it just be fun?
I don't want to make this thread about me, so mods, if you can, please delete post # 113 or edit out the above statement. If not, I understand. Hopefully that will keep this thread on topic.
Thanks
Thanks
Chriskid
New member
well ive read this and agree with most. i like to keep the corals i find attractive,some are pricey , some not. however i like to sell, and trade them as they grow out, ussualy for half or less then what i payed(and give alot away) , to acquire something new. so with that said i believe that some very expensive corals end up being cheaper even after me, example (sorry sps) the red dragon acro is a fast grower, for me and a few others, so it will become much cheaper over time in my area. so dose this put me in the category of gouging? or am i helping drop the price? i am far from a rich man, but when i do sell a few, i buy a new that tickles my fancy
and reefkeeping is fun, and always will be
also, as far as the unnatural polyp on a tile, i usually only buy one or two for the clean factor. east to inspect for bad critters and you can tell if its been grown or hacked for profit. not fond of coral choppers.
chris
i understand not responding to the last but why not this question?
Hey Chris, I don't think anyone would consider you a gouger by any means. However, if you, me, and 500 other reefers sold polyps at $ 2 a piece, it isn't going to make a dent in the problem we see today with these lies, sky high prices, chopshoppers and gougers. The gougers would simply buy our polyps, turn around and sell them at their rates, and nothing has changed. The only thing that will turn this thing around after all of the threads, links, proof, examples yadda yadda that has been share over the last 7 years, is a boycott of anyone selling at those high prices across the board.....period, and continuing to educate all newbies on the truth as A. Grandis mentioned earlier.
It's all in this thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1941053
Thanks for the exchange, Happy New Year.
Mooch
It's all in this thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1941053
Thanks for the exchange, Happy New Year.
Mooch
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Chriskid
New member
unfortunately its just like everything else, and will not change. and with that said, if you have fun with your colorful polyps, why cant I with the cartoon names? there is no price on ones enjoyment. i think ongoing threads of this nature seem to just drag on. i feel as if its in the category of tree hugging. sorry but i just cant grasp why people cant just be happy for what they have, no mater what you call it, or what you pay for it. i don't see a gun to anyone's head. just fun,its a hobby, and most of all its fun. you know if i were to get out of anything it would probably start with all forums, i came to RC bc face book wuz a endless echo of complaints, and the biggest lesson i learned wuz it is everywhere.
Chris
you know if i were to get out of anything it would probably start with all forums, i came to RC bc face book wuz a endless echo of complaints, and the biggest lesson i learned wuz it is everywhere.Chris
