Re: Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes from Orca Labs promises denitrification free of Redfield's

To all nay sayers and non believers, has anyone actually used the cubes according the correct directions? I remember a time when vodka dosing and even only using live rock as filtration were controversial and questionable.
 
nay sayers and non believers

There it is, I was waiting for it. It's a common ploy with folks hustling junk.

If you are a discerning consumer who questions amateurish nonsensical marketing hype you are dismissed from the in group as a" non believer".

If you don't give someone your money to put stuff with unknown contents in your tank for their profit you are labeled a "non believer and naysayer" playing on the be with the cool kid or cult mentality.
Once the veil of junk science put forth by the seller for the product becomes thin and tattered ,the next argument is :well it doesn't matter you can't know how good this is unless you try it ;it's the way of the future.A really obvious effort at manipulation and to dismiss those who dis argee with poor inaccurate information as closed minded and irrelevant.

My approach is a little different. If it sounds bad, looks bad and is poorly or dishonestly explained I won't waste my time or money on it or risk exposing the animals in my tanks to it.. It has nothing to do with my beliefs. It' just knowing baloney when you see it .
 
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My intention was never to "manipulate" any thoughts, ideas or beliefs you have tmz, and I find it disconcerting and worrying that you would think so, it worries me that some can merely rubbish a product because the science is not divulged. That being said I respect your view and opinions. I for one am extatic with the product, and I was a non believer too.
 
carlosdeandrade said:
To all nay sayers and non believers, has anyone actually used the cubes according the correct directions? I remember a time when vodka dosing and even only using live rock as filtration were controversial and questionable.
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In my area yes, but with nitrate reduction not reduction of phosphates. So this does become another carbon source which after awhile becomes limited by nitrate levels and one needing supplementary gfo media.
 
capn_hylinur said:
In my area yes, but with nitrate reduction not reduction of phosphates. So this does become another carbon source which after awhile becomes limited by nitrate levels and one needing supplementary gfo media.
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I too had the same problem, but switched to the titanium cubes, nitrates have decreased in spite of the skewed red field ratio.
 
capn_hylinur said:
I am curious as to where yeast fits in on the nitrogen cycle. Since it requires an aerobic environment then I am thinking it oxidizes fish crap to ammonia or ammonia to nitrites?

Here is the explanation I received
Re: Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes from Orca Labs promises denitrification free of Redfield's

Other companies are trying to use bacteria to do the work for them. What makes these cubes so unique? I am using yeast cells to do the work and not bacteria. Yeast is so much easier to work with and they are so easily manipulated. This is how I am able to break / bend the laws of nature like Redfield's Ratio. What I have done there is I used a nano particulated substrate that is titanium based. The yeast are able to take the titanium into the cells and they basically become "Cyborg" yeast. Half living biological organism and half synthetic nano particulated inert metal. Put the 2 together and you have an organism that behaves like a synthetic chemical, but, reproduces like a living biological organism. It also has a very basic "Artificial Intelligence" built into it because all organisms are programmed to survive. If there is enough nutrients to support the colony, they will grow the colony to that size, if the nutrient levels drop, the colony will die off to a size that can be maintained. This "Artificial Intelligence" control system is what makes the cubes last so long. Unlike pellets that get eroded through micro-abrasion in the reactors, cubes only erode through yeast cell consumption. This means that the product will grow or shrink according to your needs and they do this automatically without you needing to do anything and without any waste. Very basically put, within 11 days the cubes become self aware and start learning what your needs and habits are. After 11 days they assimilate the colony to what you need them to be. Unlike other products where we have to adjust ourselves and our systems to what that product requires in order for it to work, this is a product that will become what you and your system needs it to become. To do this with bacteria is almost impossible and you have to be really smart...and I have never been that smart to begin with! This is also the reason that the cubes need so much oxygen (apart from the gentle scrubbing action it provides) because yeast cells need oxygen, they do not operate very well under anaerobic conditions. This is why I stress the oxygen part so much and also where people make the mistake of using reactors to operate this product in. As long as you can feed oxygen into that reactor you will be fine, but, all reactors that are produced do not have this option. This was when the bomb method was born.
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Perhaps this is the information that you were looking for in an attempt to understand the Nitra-Guard Bio-Cubes use of yeast for nitrate/phosphate reduction.


"INTRODUCTION
Many autotrophic and heterotrophic micro-organisms are able to assimilate nitrate (Payne, 1973; Brown et al., 1974) and this process has been studied extensively in bacteria, cyanobacteria, algae (Guerrero et al., 198 1) and filamentous ascomycetes such as Aspergillus (Pateman & Kinghorn, 1976) and Neurospora (Garrett & Amy, 1978).

Surprisingly, there have been few detailed investigations of nitrate assimilation in yeasts and fewer in basidiomycetes. In this paper we describe some aspects of the uptake and reduction of nitrate by the basidiomycete yeast Sporobolomyces roseus. This species occurs commonly in nature and is a frequent and often abundant member of the phylloplane and atmospheric microflora (Last, 1955; Gregory & Hirst, 1957). Both nitrate and reduced nitrogen are likely to be important sources of nitrogen for phylloplane fungi although, to our knowledge, there have been no published investigations of nitrate assimilation in S . roseus. The work described here is part of a larger study of nitrate assimilation in yeasts."

Location of reference:
http://www.marineaquariumsa.com/showpost.php?p=747502&postcount=57
 
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I posted information and links on yeast in marine enviromnents in posts #70. through 75)
 
The cited link is not from a Marine environment. I still doubt much yeast survives and functions there outside of silty /muddy inshore environments. Then there is the whole issue of potetnial toxcity to consider which is not mentioned.
 
The study simply shows that Yeast can assimilate nitrates and phosphates and that is the basis for the Nitra-Guard Bio-Cubes according to the manufacturer (according to quote from manufacturer Orca Labs in Capn Hylinur's post).

Additional information regarding the Bio-Cubes and there use can be found elsewhere. Here is a reference of such information:


http://www.marineaquariumsa.com/showpost.php?p=656067&postcount=1

Drop down about half way to view testing in a reef water.
 
carlosdeandrade said:
My intention was never to "manipulate" any thoughts, ideas or beliefs you have tmz, and I find it disconcerting and worrying that you would think so, it worries me that some can merely rubbish a product because the science is not divulged. That being said I respect your view and opinions. I for one am extatic with the product, and I was a non believer too.
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Carlos,
Q1. I note from your posts on the marineaquariumsa forum that you are in fact using Nitra-Guard Bio-Cubes.
Perhaps you care to post some testing data/results from what you have observed in your tank OR what others have seen in nitrate and phosphate reductions with the use of the Bio-Cubes?

Q2. Have you or anyone else that you recall shown any evidence of ill health effects on corals or fish while using Nitra-Guard Bio-Cubes?

Look forward to any documented information you have to post in that regards,
RA
 
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I agree that marine yeasts can take up nitrate. None of the data show that yeast are going to be more effective than bacteria, though, and I haven't seen any evidence that the claims about titanium are anything but rubbish.

The last reference you posted doesn't have any actual data, nor does it contain much in the way of a coherent argument.
 
i am no scientist or biologist but a simple search yielded
Photocatalytic reduction of nitrate using titanium dioxide for regeneration of ion exchange brine. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23276425
i am a hobbyist and avid user of the Orca range for the last 2 years on my reef tanks, and while the nitty gritty of it doesnt interest me, i do know it works and had no ill effects, but i am interest in learning more about the chemistry and science of it, the abstract below is way beyond me and if someone can put in laymans terms it would be appreciated.

Abstract

Nitrate is often removed from groundwater by ion exchange (IX) before its use as drinking water. Accumulation of nitrate in IX brine reduces the efficiency of IX regeneration and the useful life of the regeneration brine. For the first time, we present a strategy to photocatalytically reduce nitrate in IX brine, thereby extending the use of the brine. Titanium dioxide (Evonik P90), acting as photocatalyst, reduced nitrate effectively in both synthetic brines and sulfate-removed IX brine when formic acid (FA) was used as the hole scavenger (i.e., electron donor) and the initial FA to nitrate molar ratio (IFNR) was 5.6. Increasing the NaCl level in the synthetic brine slowed the nitrate reduction rate without affecting by-product selectivity of ammonium and gaseous N species (e.g., N(2), N(2)O). In a non-modified IX brine, nitrate removal was greatly inhibited owing to the presence of sulfate, which competed with nitrate for active surface sites on P90 and induced aggregation of P90 nanoparticles. After removing sulfate through barium sulfate precipitation, nitrate was effectively reduced; approximately 3.6 × 10(24) photons were required to reduce each mole of nitrate to 83% N Gases and 17% NH(4)(+). To make optimum use of FA and control the residual FA level in treated brine, the IFNR was varied. High IFNRs (e.g., 4, 5.6) were found to be more efficient for nitrate reduction but left higher residual FA in brine. IX column tests were performed to investigate the impact of residual FA for brine reuse. The residual FA in the brine did not significantly affect the nitrate removal capacity of IX resins, and formate contamination of treated water could be eliminated by rinsing with one bed volume of fresh brine.
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What your abstract boils down to: For titanium dioxide to photocatalytically (implies light is needed, therefore ruling out use in unlit reactors) reduce nitrate, you need to add formic acid. Also presence of sulfate (one of the most abundant ions in seawater) greatly inhibits the nitrate reduction. Basically don't expect it do much in seawater.
 
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