Re: Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes from Orca Labs promises denitrification free of Redfield's
- Thread starter Aquarist007
- Start date
Hi Glen. One does not control the amount of C entering your tank as the carbon is tied up into the polymer and only biologically available. Unlike something like Biopellets, the friction from the passing air is nowhere near enough to dislodge micro particles of the cubes and therefor the risk of cyano is minimised.
Unfortunately the cubes only remove N and P in a specific ratio as used by the biomass, which would likely result in some left over P, due to our addition of P not being balanced to the assimilation ratio.
In one of the systems which I tested the cubes, I noticed a bit of cyano after two weeks use, which disappeared within two days after installing some GFH. Strangest thing is that both N were undetectable and PO4 was at 0.01 (Hanna) prior to the appearance of cyano. P was at 0.01My first thoughts was that it might have leached some carbon into the tank, but as the cyano was ony in small patches on old liverock.
Something about the ability of cyano to fix its own N and the presence of P comes to mind. Even though P was undetectable, I suspect a P release or "mining" into the rock by the cyano. The fact that a bit of GFH solved the "problem" was good enough for me.
Unfortunately the cubes only remove N and P in a specific ratio as used by the biomass, which would likely result in some left over P, due to our addition of P not being balanced to the assimilation ratio.
In one of the systems which I tested the cubes, I noticed a bit of cyano after two weeks use, which disappeared within two days after installing some GFH. Strangest thing is that both N were undetectable and PO4 was at 0.01 (Hanna) prior to the appearance of cyano. P was at 0.01My first thoughts was that it might have leached some carbon into the tank, but as the cyano was ony in small patches on old liverock.
Something about the ability of cyano to fix its own N and the presence of P comes to mind. Even though P was undetectable, I suspect a P release or "mining" into the rock by the cyano. The fact that a bit of GFH solved the "problem" was good enough for me.
mandarinfanatic
New member
???
sent from my galaxy s3
sent from my galaxy s3
mandarinfanatic
New member
biologically available is not true. it releases into tank due to friction. i have seen it happen
sent from my galaxy s3
sent from my galaxy s3
mandarinfanatic
New member
this stuff is of the snakeoil dept give it time and the claims will be disproved as have many others. but that is in the past i have moved back to more dependable seachem matrix . slight liquid carbon dosing and waterchanges. much more dependable and controllable.
sent from my galaxy s3
sent from my galaxy s3
mandarinfanatic
New member
oh i forgot to mention. i also use phosguard which is fantastic
sent from my galaxy s3
sent from my galaxy s3
mandarinfanatic
New member
no ivan. i will not take up your challenge. i will stick to what is going on in the thread and the tests done. there has been a lot of marketing re this product and a lot of suppositions and snake oil comments and inuendos to the point where if people ask too direct a question their questions are deleted. let the people use the product while being aware of what people have experienced with it. this is an american site and people will say what their version of the truth is. i had bad experiences with the product which may totally be my fault so i will tag along to see how others find and experience the product. wether good or bad i am sure it will be interesting. so please keep your personal attacks to yourself. you have made people aware of what your experience with the product has been. lets see how happy others are with the product
sent from my galaxy s3
sent from my galaxy s3
Exactly ho do you intend doing this when you immediately attack the product. You have a history of attacking this particular product on two South African Forums, as well as anybody who you (incorrectly) assume to be associated with it. Or have you forgotten to filthy PM you sent me just because you incorrectly assumed that I was involved in the product after writing an article on my experience with it?
You asked a question, which, considering the above, I knew to be loaded, but I went ahead and answered it. Your immediate reply is to call it snake oil.... Or at least :
.
How exactly is that sticking to the thread and the test conducted?
I answered it in a manner knowing that you suspect that it might have contributed to your cyano you had in your tank... In fact, you emphatically stated this on another forum.
I ask you,: why do you suspect that it causes cyano?
Bcause it leaks some form of carbon in your opinion? DId you test carbon levels before you added and after you added the product?
Regarding your questions being deleted, its not about the questions you ask, its about the way you ask them and when answered your retort is almost always an attack...
To say that it is untrue that it is biologically available is another propostorous contridiction. If it is not biologically available, then it would not be available to cyanobacteria.... RIGHT?
I repeat, the aeration of the cubes is not sufficient to dislodge particles of the media and have it float around a tank waiting for cyano to pounce and grab it.... The only thing which the friction does is assist with expulsion of the biofilm, which either becomes skimmed out of coral food...
There has been some concerns expressed that the "mulm" might end up in a tank and release the tied up nutrients when the biomass dies.... I cannot comment scientifically on this, but if its ending up all over the substrate, then you simply dont have enough flow... I also doubt whether the biomass would die and release nutrients, as I suspect it would carry on scavengeing whatever nutrients are in the tank simply from a "will to survive" perspectve.
So where in this thread did you state your experience with th product before attacking it?
Please elaborate on the snake oil claims? It claims to remove NO3, and those that use it are way past the point of debating that.
Anyway, no personal attacks, just won't sit back and allow you to sabotage a product. I prefer to look at the facts.
Which reminds me...
When one looks at cyano in low nutrient reefs, it does seem that PO4 is an issue.... Not C or N...
From Ernst Pawlowsky's article in Advances in Coral Husbandry in Public Aquariums. Public Aquarium Husbandry Series, vol. 2. R.J. Leewis and M. Janse, we can clearly see that running tanks with undetectable nitrates runs the risk of cyano, due to their N fixing ability, as long as other nutrients are available. Reality check, other nutrients are C and P, with C being available, whether we add vodka, zeostart, pellets or nothing to our tanks.
I propose that you experienced cyano because the product was working, i.e. because it gave you ultra low levels of NO3.
I have said this in many posts on other forums, and here too, but I'll say it again: Any product which removes N biologically via additional Carbon, will inadvertently remove P. However, our addition of N relative to P is skewed towards P.
This will result in some P being left over for cyano to grab.......
My apologies to RC staff and members if the above might be a bit off topic, but its important to keep things and people in perspective....
mandarinfanatic
New member
as i said. let the people experience the product and lets see how it works for them. if it works great. it didnt work for me. my bad.
sent from my galaxy s3
sent from my galaxy s3
mandarinfanatic
New member
ps i dont want a product that has cyano as a by product when working correctly. but that is my opinion only. let the people make up their own minds.
sent from my galaxy s3
sent from my galaxy s3
mandarinfanatic
New member
mofro unfortunately anyone who has a negative comment on any product you are currently using will be ridiculed. i hope when experiental feedback starts coming in from the usa that the participants dont experience the same fate. you and the bio cube crowd were invited to a q and a on mysaltyreef which was ignored and you and the crowd have since only floated around on the site to read threads to see if the product needs protecting. the second site masa where biocubes is a sponsor and a moderator of its own threads deletes any negative comments and direct questions result in being banned if one is persistant. the sponsor is always right on masa. i cannot with a good conscience not voice my experiences and opinions with this product so that people will know that this is a product that has some positives and negatives that will be experienced by the user. for example. if flow is too slow or stops for any period of time though cubes. they go off and need to be replaced and then it is another three weeks before they are operating fully again.
sent from my galaxy s3
sent from my galaxy s3
carlosdeandrade
New member
I would like to add my little two cents worth here. I have been using the orca products for a few months now and I have NEVER, EVER, had any issues with cyano, my NO3 is at levels that I have never experienced before in my life, and I am a heavy feeder and a overstocker in the fish department. Yes what @mofro says is true, my PO4 levels are not 100% eliminated, but that is easily rectified with GFO.
carlosdeandrade
New member
This will also occur with Pellets as well, and from what I understand, as long as there is still flow, the product will not need replacing. I have experienced one or two power failures since I have had the cubes, and my cubes are located in my sump where the flow is never stopped as my return pump is connected to my UPS, my air pump has stopped working (not connected to UPS, but can be
), but flow still occurs, and I have not experienced any loss and the cubes remained viable.mandarinfanatic
New member
This will also occur with Pellets as well, and from what I understand, as long as there is still flow, the product will not need replacing. I have experienced one or two power failures since I have had the cubes, and my cubes are located in my sump where the flow is never stopped as my return pump is connected to my UPS, my air pump has stopped working (not connected to UPS, but can be
glad to hear you have had a positive experience with the product. marius meyer had to restart his bio cubes three times to get it right because of two flow issues. i had the cubes in my tl550 initially and the flow must have been too slow and the cubes rotted/stank and didnt help. i think as long as you keep your flow going nicely they will be safe from the rotting perspective.
sent from my galaxy s3
mandarinfanatic
New member
carlos how often have you been doing waterchanges if any
sent from my galaxy s3
sent from my galaxy s3
carlosdeandrade
New member
I am a man that believes in water changes, and I use to do at at least 10-15% a week. Since the 12th October 2012 (the day I started with the cubes), I have done 2 water changes of about 10%, once when I got back from holiday (tank was fine, but I was paranoid) and a few weeks back when I changed over to my new tank, and I had to do a change because of the greater volume. I do check my numbers religiously, at the moment, my NO3 has peaked to 3ppm in the current tank, and I haven't checked my PO4, I got some brown diatoms, but those have cleared up.
I stopped water changes (not advisable though) because I was told how the cubes would decrease the need for changes, but then one loses out on the advantage of adding new essential trace elements. The first time I did a water change, I did notice that my corals din't enjoy the new water, they sulked for about two days, however this could've also been my fault as you know marines is not an exact science in terms of success and husbandry.
I stopped water changes (not advisable though) because I was told how the cubes would decrease the need for changes, but then one loses out on the advantage of adding new essential trace elements. The first time I did a water change, I did notice that my corals din't enjoy the new water, they sulked for about two days, however this could've also been my fault as you know marines is not an exact science in terms of success and husbandry.
mandarinfanatic
New member
it will be interesting to see how your tank progresses if you dont so waterchanges. i do have an opinion that waterchanges are important no matter what methods you are using
sent from my galaxy s3
sent from my galaxy s3
mandarinfanatic
New member
Similar threads
