Real Cost Savings of LED vs MH/T5

[alten78]

Im glad I ran across this thread, I was just having this conversation with another hobbyist this weekend and I was starting to consider switching to LED's. After reading through everything, it certainly appears to be a case by case basis with valid arguments on both sides (not to get away from the threads original intent on power consumption.)

For me, ive ran the same 2 aqua medic pendants for the past 7 years. Ive tried several different bulbs and have settled on phoenix's as I have no supplementation, so yearly im looking at $60 bucks a bulb and have replaced the ballasts maybe 3 times, the ceramic ends a few times.

Being in IT I have to stay up to date with the latest technology, but reading through this thread I realized I know nothing about LED's and how much they have changed the past few years. Eventually Ill have to get new fixtures, but im stuck in my ways...and cheap

 

[d2mini]

Wow, any idea why so many ballast replacements?

 

[alten78]

I think the design of the originals was just plain bad with very little air movement, dust gets trapped and caked in it. Doesn't help where I have them positioned and often forget to blow them out as part of my monthly routine. They have switched designs a few times, the most recent of course looks promising...but I have enough parts and solder to keep me going for awhile

 

[DaddyJax]

Looking to get back into the hobby soon and I was wanting to go LED because I did not want a chiller and a massive elec bill. Here in Tampa I never used a heater but ran a chiller 365/year not to mention the AC running harder too. I would think that starting out it would be a smart choice given the location but my concern is about the color and growth as well. Dont care about savings if the corals are not happy.

 

[noy]

really good quality post - kind of stuff I go to RC for.

awesome research dennis!

 

[BigCountry74]

i don't care about $100/year in this hobby.

I care about if the $3000 in sps are coloring up and growing as quickly as possible in large colonies without any shading. Not saying that led can't do this but the cost saving of led power usage is on the far bottom of my list of priorities.

x2

 

[Windirmere]

Wonder how much gas/diesel is used to ship all these bulb replacements releasing huge amounts of green house gasses and acidifying our oceans.

jokes aside, should add shipping costs to Mh and T5!

 

[rtparty]

Wonder how much gas/diesel is used to ship all these bulb replacements releasing huge amounts of green house gasses and acidifying our oceans.

jokes aside, should add shipping costs to Mh and T5!

As a hobby we are such a small drop in the bucket it would make ZERO difference if everyone used LEDs. Producing LEDs isn't even as green as some people want you to believe.

 

[Windirmere]

I just wanted to make a joke about Led users seeming to get branded as reef "vegans" lol

 

[rtparty]

I just wanted to make a joke about Led users seeming to get branded as reef "vegans" lol

Yeah I got the joke lol.

 

[d2mini]

jokes aside, should add shipping costs to Mh and T5!

Free shipping FTW! :beer:

 

[chadfarmer]

Let's say I started today and bought lighting for my 300dd. In a canopy to keep it simple.

Led: 3 ecotech radion pro cost 2,250

Mh/t5: like rtparty example is be in at 1,100

I have 1,150 in cash to spend on lighting and electricity before I'm even.

Fast forward 3 years

9 bulbs at 80$ = 720$ plus electricity in my area

750w halides minus 300w for LEDs = 450w per hr x 8 hrs x 365 x 3 = 3,942 kWh at .14/kWh = $552 over the three years

IMO the majority of people will upgrade their LEDs to the new tech within 3 years.

2,250 - depreciation of 60% = $900 then you buy the new tech for 2250 again.

So at the end of four years now for total costs

LEDs cost after four years $3,600

Mh cost after four years $2,600

Slice it anyway you want. Add in t5's change bulbs over a longer period. When you run the numbers and don't factor in all the costs the. LEDs are great. The issue is when you actually look at everything.

Yes you can get a cheap led setup but most likely you will upgrade that fixture faster then the 3 year period to get better control.

my friend did 3 and not enough light had to go with 6

 

[mayjong]

I think LEDs in general are FULL of non essential features. It's not just one brand or style. I think all of us are after one thing: healthy corals. Bells and whistles are nice but are non essential in the end.
.

this is SO true.
funny thing is, when people are running mh, there is no NEED (or ability) to "ramp" up or down. the supplements come on 2 hours before and go off two hours after the main lights.
then comes LED, and now YOU HAVE to be able to run a sunset/sunrise light cycle. funny....
anyway, i WOULD agree with most of the arguments against LED and saving money ... Except.... they don't really cost that much for them. people PAY that much, but they don't COST that much. i (and anyone else willing to do the research) can light a 7' tank with full spectrum LED for less than $1000, including shipping, and that will save me $ over mh and t5.it will save in cost, energy, heat, and replacement bulbs. pretty significantly. heck, if you build your own, they cost even less!
i would never pay for a so called "high end" led fixture, you are just paying for those "bells and whistles"
i would also argue that JUST BECAUSE this hobby is excessive, i try to save even more $ wherever i can, not spend more!

the difference in how coral looks compared between the two is another argument!

 

[nickjj]

My experience with LED fixtures.....Some food for thought.

I ran 4 Orphek Nilus fixtures on my 200G tank for almost a year after coming from many years of MH/T5 use. I needed 4 just to get proper light coverage for the whole tank because I had limited height above the tank. I paid $750 for each fixture. I went through at least 2 driver modules on each unit before I abandoned them. I did not have much success with the look and condition of my sps corals while using the fixtures. My 600w of heaters ran all the time since my tank is in the basement and I live in relatively colder climate.

I replaced the Orphek fixtures with one Sfiligoi Stealth 8x80w T5 fixture I picked up used from a local reefer for $750. Within a month of running this fixture most of my sps bounced back in colour and growth. In my opinion the tank overall looks better. My heaters only run generally in the hours the lights are not on.

I did not see any savings in electricity each month since the heaters had to compensate for the cooler running LED fixtures, especially in the winter.

The LED's may last 50K hours but everything else around them will fall apart. That was my experience in LED's. A contributing factor to the LED's output in par and spectrum is only as good as the driver powering them.

I'm sticking with T5 for now since the benefits of power saving and longevity of LED fixtures have not proven themselves at least to me just yet.

 

[d2mini]

my friend did 3 and not enough light had to go with 6

Yep, no way 3 units would be enough light.

 

[Fredfish]

...
then comes LED, and now YOU HAVE to be able to run a sunset/sunrise light cycle. funny....

Comes with the territory. I've seen this with pretty much every new consumer technology device introduce in the last 30 years. New toy, new features... gotta play... On the usefull side, you can tune the ramping to get your corals maximum photosynthetic potential without going into photoinhibition IF someone can figure out how to detect/measure that point. The advantage being that you can get maximum 'pop' out your corals without unduely stressing them out with too much light. May happen, may not...

anyway, i WOULD agree with most of the arguments against LED and saving money ... Except.... they don't really cost that much for them. people PAY that much, but they don't COST that much. i (and anyone else willing to do the research) can light a 7' tank with full spectrum LED for less than $1000, including shipping, and that will save me $ over mh and t5.it will save in cost, energy, heat, and replacement bulbs. pretty significantly. heck, if you build your own, they cost even less!

Yup, and its been pointed out by others including myself, but some will just keep repeating the same high costs... Copy your text and put it on your desktop so you can copy and paste endlessly until that myth dies out.

the difference in how coral looks compared between the two is another argument!

Yup again. T5 and MH are mature technologies and everyone understands how to use them. For LEDs you still need to work through some stuff to get most setups right. There are benefits and disadvantages to having so much flexibility in a lighting setup. Its hard to mess up MH or T5. Thats not true with an LED setup where you can play with multiple channels and intensity.

As far as 'real' cost savings, I've seen people who claim to have minimal savings (say $25 per month) and those who have seen significant savings. I have no idea why these things fall all over the map. YMMV I guess...

 

[Mike O'Brien]

I'm glad most of you don't care about money ! Must be nice, but some of us do. Cutting my lighting bill in half is a good deal to me matter what.
I went from 300 watts of halide and t5 to 150 watts of LED's running peak 50% for only a few hours a day. I'll take it !!

 

[James77]

SAving $10-$20 a month is not worth it. Owning a reef tank is a luxury in itself...I care about what will make the animals the happiest. It would start making sense if you have ridiculous electric rates or heat probelms. But for quite a few...the savings are not there. I could save more by cutting out the medium iced coffee I buy every other day for $2.53

 

[evolutionZ]

I uses a single 160w 16k maxspect razor which is rather cheap for what it gives, i too dont believe in all those high tech toys and features. Just simple sun rise and sunset dimming thats all. This tank goes over a 48x24x14" sps dominated tank.and yes one single fixture hung 18" above water level.

I believe if i were to go for t5, i would need at least a 6x39w fixture which the fixture alone would most likely cost more than my razor. I'll not talk about MH mainly because i live in a tropical country (my chiller runs 10-15 mins every few other hours) and also because they look big, bulky and ufo-like. But No dount mh/t5 gives the best growth and color.

Another thing is for led, top view is great. Espcially foe clustered or multi chip leds. You get to see crystal clear sps without any strong glaring tubes of t5 or mh blocking your view.

My 0.2 cents

 

[nickjj]

Yup again. T5 and MH are mature technologies and everyone understands how to use them. For LEDs you still need to work through some stuff to get most setups right. There are benefits and disadvantages to having so much flexibility in a lighting setup. Its hard to mess up MH or T5. Thats not true with an LED setup where you can play with multiple channels and intensity....

Totally agree. When I had the LED fixtures I spent more time tweaking the lighting programs, measuring par and adding or removing optics to try and get my corals and tank looking healthy. Let alone keeping the fixtures running by replacing drivers in my situation. MH/T5 proven technology just works and when your corals or tank start declining generally it's time for a bulb replacement. Electricity costs was a wash in my situation and the cost of the bulbs annually is a small price to pay to simplify the lighting requirements I needed.