redtop03's 360 gallon plywood adventure

[redtop03]

I'm gonna build another box sorta like this one,for the skimmer and probably just use the 30 gal. that I'm using now for the chaeto fuge,

cap'n you said something about a deep sand bed,how should I incorporate one into this?

I have about 5" sand bed in the chaeto fuge now,but I'm not liking it,my ball of chaeto use to spin before I put the sand in there,it don't now,and I have to turn it myself,ain't that just awful

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14938550#post14938550 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03
I did a little more today,I built my sump as big as I could and still get it under the stand....only about 60 gallons,

perfect size--its only a sump-----for housing equipment like protein skimmers. You can do a refugium add on and make it a display tank so it can sit beside the main tank.

Water Keeper---there must be someone on here that is able to covert cubbits to feet---yes that would be PaulB i'm sure of it:lol:

 

[redtop03]

I may just keep my 40 gal.that I have under the 150 for the skimmer and add the DSB in it,that way only skimmed water goes through it,

do you think it'd be big enough for that?

I'd have to drill it for a bulk head,but thats easy enough

 

[Aquarist007]

I came across this thread and thought you might be interested:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1355576&highlight=fuge

 

[redtop03]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14939313#post14939313 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
I came across this thread and thought you might be interested:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1355576&highlight=fuge

cap'n
once again,you are correct,thats an awesome thread,here is sorta what I have in mind for my tank,except built in.

I love red oak,nothing else will do for me,but there are some beautiful stand in that thread that aren't oak

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14939966#post14939966 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03
cap'n
once again,you are correct,thats an awesome thread,here is sorta what I have in mind for my tank,except built in.

I love red oak,nothing else will do for me,but there are some beautiful stand in that thread that aren't oak

wow--that's beautiful---my wife would like that---she is the reason for me not affording an upgrade to a 220g. Because she gave up her hobby room for a fish room she insists on the cabinet being cherry wood. I could probably afford the tank but not the cherry wood cabinet for a 220g

 

[redtop03]

that stand belongs to customclimates the face of it is the way I want mine to look.
cherry is another favorite of mine,but expensive,she has fine taste in wood

 

[chriscobb]

I used 2x12's for my stand build....they were a deal I couldn't pass up from HD....The cutout on the left you were speaking of Redtop03 is for the external wavebox......The other end will be a full viewing panel though.....the external wavebox end will be hidden inwall in the fishroom as well....
Rhodophyta I see your concern or what you have seen in the past, but did you find that when they had failures with the 45's if they were glued? Sealed? I chose not to use screws when installing the 45's....I chose to use Gorilla glue to glue these pieces in place and they were tacked in place using a nail gun....Another area I think might be over looked as well with the possible seam failure is that where the 45's meet the sides is I feel proper bonding sealing technique would be to use an epoxy with a thickening additive to "fillet" the joint. With the use of expoxy it would be sealed, also making it easier to lay your fiberglass as well.

 

[redtop03]

I thought that was kinda small for a viewing pane,but I have seen stranger things thats gonna be sweet

how did you build your stand,do you see anything I need to strengthen on mine?

I think from all the tank build threads I've read,there is only 1 or 2 that didn't use the 45s,but they did frame in the exterior,for the added strength which is what I have planned for mine.

I think all of the ones with 45s did the pour method,with the epoxy too,if you pour it,it will find holes if there are any and fill them completely,so there is little if any chance of a leak,IMO

I believe the less holes you make on the inside the better,the nail gun is a better idea than using screws,but if you're careful and pay attention when using screws,you can off set the screws,so they don't run into each other,IMO

I had a time in the corners,trying to smooth the fiber,I did a poor job there,the 45's would have made that a lot easier,they make the tank stronger and it makes the fiberglass stronger as well.

 

[chriscobb]

Yeah.....the left side is rather small and considering enlarging it for the external wavebox a bit.......As far as the 45's with the use of gorilla glue which expands as it cures to fill gaps and then the area is sealed with thickened epoxy, "fillet" and then sanded not squared off edges should make the epoxy process alittle easier IMO........I used the nail gun to fasten them in to minimize screw holes inside the tank.....The only place inside the tank is where the overflow box connects to the tank itself, but those screw holes will be filled with thickened epoxy and sanded flush and I will be using the "pour" method to try to achieve a smooth finish, and should find ever cranny there is.....Along with the use of 37oz fiberglass cloth should be fine IMO....I have seen tanks done without any fiberlass cloth, and just don't trust that......People say it will be fine, but, it's peace of mind.......
What gave you a hard time with the corners?

 

[redtop03]

I just could not get the fiberglass smooth in the corners,and my epoxy started setting up before I could.I think I tried to do too much at once.

the only screws on the inside of mine are in the over flow,I used bondo,to fill them and the screws on the outside as well.

I don't think you'll have any leaks,you have done a great job so far,

I kinda wish I'd practiced with the sump tank before trying the tank with the fiberglass and epoxy,it came out a lot smoother than my tank,but I did a little at a time til I got it done,I also let my epoxy set up a little before putting in the fiber,I didn't do that with the tank and the fiber tried to float out on me.

 

[chriscobb]

The stand looks good.....The only thing that I would do would be to add another stud on each of the corners on the front side.....I like to use a doubled up cripple stud in my corners......that's just me, but as long as I'm confident with it, because I have to explain to the wife "if" something goes wrong.....LOL.....Why did you lay the bottom 2x4's flat? The framing of the stand is really no different in framing for a house to a degree.....The stand build thread on here is an excellent thread IMO....Even though I overbuilt mine using 2x12's from HD. They were cut off's for .51 each for a 6' section....I only need 4'....the 6' long pieces I did pay full price for, but the sayings on the smaller pieces were worthwhile....I wanted to keep the stand rather open is why I went beefy.

 

[chriscobb]

Yeah I've heard that if to much epoxy the fiberglass will float, but that's why you basically float it out.....I got some good fiberglass working material from West....they have a very good tuturial on their site, that I printed off and have read repeatedly......I finally broke the new canon camera out today for prom pics for the daughter, so will have to get it out tomorrow and take some pics of my stand.....nothing spectacular and nothing finished....I have so many projects going at once...money is the big key or waiting on materials....I have the sump all but completed except for the top eurobrace panel. The sump is 48"Lx36"Wx18"H, also started the build of my dual chamber calcuim reactor as well......Fishroom is all but finished...still alittle drywall work to do and install exhaust fan....

 

[redtop03]

well,I built the 2x6 frame for the tank to set on,then built 4 walls,like walls built for a house,for the 2x6 frame to set on,if that makes sense,I plan on adding the 2x4s like you said also,
after I posted the pic,and got to looking at it on here,the 2x4s looked kinda flimsy to me with the 24"centers,I may go back and put the 2x4s on 16"centers,and double up in the corners,but I want to leave the back like I have it,so I can get the sump in or out if a problem occurs.

 

[chriscobb]

That should be fine......I always over build.....I built the bottom of my stand and I'm going to line it with FRP, and seal it, that way if I have any leakage from the sump it should be contained there instead of running out into the family room.......

 

[redtop03]

I'm considered doing that as well,that is a good idea,especially building 2 wooden tanks for the same system

 

[Rhodophyta]

For the stand, I'd add some half inch plywood inside the front board since the cross pieces are already in place, and then 2 by six blocking inside the plywood to give you a final solid support area about three and a half inches wide where the glass viewing side will be resting. Doing this before the crosspieces would have been stronger, but it will be plenty strong enough.

There are at least three reasons for not assembling the tank with screw heads on the bottom, but you are past that now. Even stainless steel wood screws can corrode in that configuration because moisture can be trapped there. The wood rim holding the glass is now two piece and so more prone to flex, and during assembly, the bottom configuration causes the boards to be assembled in tension rather than a relaxed position. On the plus side, the seam is just as strong against water pressure whatever direction the boards are.

I would think finding less damaging ways to attach the 45's such as Gorilla glue would help the situation, but when you reflect that you are trying to find a way to insert these with minimal damage, not using them at all is safest. If you want to reduce the bend in fiberglass layers, using a fiberglass product intended for that purpose seems more appropriate.

On tanks taller than 24" or fiberglassed tanks of any height, I would bring up a frame around the tank, built like a residential wood wall with studs on 12" centers, or closer with really tall tanks, but not attached to the tank. It will be part of the stand. This will reduce flexing when the water level in the tank is changed. Using a sump and doing your water changes there will help by reducing the number of times the tank is flexed by changes in water level. Resin and fiberglass tanks are more brittle than epoxy coated tanks and flexing will eventually make them slightly porous. The problem today is that suitable epoxy coatings have to be professionally applied and are not available to the DIYer. So we can't really say anymore don't use resin and fiberglass. There is not always an alternative.

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14940906#post14940906 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chriscobb
.......Fishroom is all but finished...still alittle drywall work to do and install exhaust fan....

A heat exchanger would be more energy efficient than an exhaust fan. It brings in outside air exchanging the heat so you don't lose your heat in the winter and vice versa in the summer. Dehumidifiers produce waste heat which is OK in winter, but cost more to run.

 

[redtop03]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941333#post14941333 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodophyta
For the stand, I'd add some half inch plywood inside the front board since the cross pieces are already in place, and then 2 by six blocking inside the plywood to give you a final solid support area about three and a half inches wide where the glass viewing side will be resting. Doing this before the crosspieces would have been stronger, but it will be plenty strong enough.

your saying use 2 2x6s with a strip or 1/2" plywood sandwiched between them for the front of the stand,to support the wall in the tank where the glass will be?

if this is what you're meaning,wouldn't it be best to do the whole top perimeter of the stand that way to support all the plywood seams

I've not went so far that I can't change things on the stand yet,
if you think I should change anything let me know,that just means disassemble and re cut,once I have it like I want,I will disassemble and glue all the wood joints anyway,so I want to make sure it doesn't collapse,thats a lot of weight going on it,I also plan on it being built in,so the wall will help with keeping it from shifting sideways

 

[redtop03]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941333#post14941333 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodophyta
[
There are at least three reasons for not assembling the tank with screw heads on the bottom, but you are past that now. Even stainless steel wood screws can corrode in that configuration because moisture can be trapped there. The wood rim holding the glass is now two piece and so more prone to flex, and during assembly, the bottom configuration causes the boards to be assembled in tension rather than a relaxed position. On the plus side, the seam is just as strong against water pressure whatever direction the boards are.

[/B]

with screw heads on the bottom, but you are past that now

do you mean on the inside of the tank bottom or the outside of the tank bottom,I have no screws on the inside except into the over flow box on the back wall,I didn't like the idea of any kind of metal fastener inside of the tank.
I used bondo over the screw heads,then epoxy with the fiberglass mat then the epoxy paint

On the plus side, the seam is just as strong against water pressure whatever direction the boards are.

I used 2 plys of plywood here,1 fastened on top of the bottom and the sides,1 in front,both glued and screwed together from the outside.