redtop03's 360 gallon plywood adventure

[chriscobb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14957664#post14957664 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
he hasn't got the front glass in yet:eek2:

I was referring to his post on hope it doesn't come back to bite him in the rear.....I was stating "water test" will tell!!!!!!!

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941663#post14941663 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03
....I used 2 plys of plywood here,1 fastened on top of the bottom and the sides,1 in front,both glued and screwed together from the outside.

Do you mean you doubled the bottom? That is one of those good-sounding ideas with pretty uniformly bad results. They always seem to develop leaks. Some moisture is one way or another going to get into the plywood. If it can evaporate out, no harm, but if it's trapped inside.....:eek1:

Yes I was referring to the screwheads on the outside of the tank. I guess I would not have been able to imagine someone putting any of them on the inside of the tank because they would be a hole and perennial weak spot.

 

[redtop03]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14960799#post14960799 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodophyta
Do you mean you doubled the bottom? That is one of those good-sounding ideas with pretty uniformly bad results. They always seem to develop leaks. Some moisture is one way or another going to get into the plywood. If it can evaporate out, no harm, but if it's trapped inside.....:eek1:

Yes I was referring to the screwheads on the outside of the tank. I guess I would not have been able to imagine someone putting any of them on the inside of the tank because they would be a hole and perennial weak spot.

no the bottom,sides and back wall are all 1 ply,the 3/4"frame for the glass looked flimsy to me so I doubled the glass frame,glued clamped and screwed together from the outside,

I put the first ply in like the garf.org said to do,then added the second ply on the outside of the tank,so to anchor to the bottom,sides,and top euro 2 ways....I spaced my screws so to not run into each other,.......I hope that makes sense

the only screw I have on the inside are to hold the over flow on,
I did bondo over all the screw holes and paint over all of 'em with the sweetwater epoxy paint,hoping to keep moisture from any part of the tank,

I used epoxy & fiberglass matting on the inside but I didn't use it on the outside of the tank,just the sweetwater paint

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14960826#post14960826 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03
no the bottom,sides and back wall are all 1 ply,the 3/4"frame for the glass looked flimsy to me so I doubled the glass frame,glued clamped and screwed together from the outside,[/B]

3/4" frame is enough, even for a tank 48" tall. It is going to be sealed to the glass, so beefiness could be a drawback, if any twist ever affected the plywood.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14960826#post14960826 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03 I put the first ply in like the garf.org said to do,then added the second ply on the outside of the tank,so to anchor to the bottom,sides,and top euro 2 ways....I spaced my screws so to not run into each other,.......I hope that makes sense [/B]

It probably does not make "design" sense because the direction of the screws does not make a strength difference so alternating their direction would complicate assembly without any structural benefit. But it sure does make sense not to screw one screw into another. The collision can go just about any direction.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14960826#post14960826 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03 the only screw I have on the inside are to hold the over flow on,
I did bondo over all the screw holes and paint over all of 'em with the sweetwater epoxy paint,hoping to keep moisture from any part of the tank,[/B]

I would not have done this. Paint (epoxy and fiberglass in this case) the overflow on all edges and then attach it by using aquarium sealant (silicone). That way you don't have to start out by patching holes in the tank, and remodelling is easier if you decide you'd like to move the overflow later on.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14960826#post14960826 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03 I used epoxy & fiberglass matting on the inside but I didn't use it on the outside of the tank,just the sweetwater paint [/B]

I would except for the top and near the top, use only a latex paint that breathes on the outside of the tank so that any moisture doesn't get trapped between two waterproof layers. At this point I'd use enough fiberglass layers to feel assured that even it the plywood went south, the fiberglass would be thick enough and strong enough to do the job on its own.

The couple that founded the local saltwater club here in 1972 used to dig a hole in the ground, line it with newspaper, then build up resin and fiberglass in enough layers that it could stand on its own if you lifted it up out of the ground. If newspaper and dirt is good enough, anything that could go wrong with plywood can be avoided just by regarding the plywood as a mold for the fiberglass. I used to have several tanks that were 100% fiberglass, lifted from the mold, and still have a low 100 gallon that used to grow Caulerpa in a circulating system, but has retired now to house lionhead goldfish.

 

[redtop03]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14964265#post14964265 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodophyta

At this point I'd use enough fiberglass layers to feel assured that even it the plywood went south, the fiberglass would be thick enough and strong enough to do the job on its own.
[/B]

I think my plywood already went south,I think its from Canada:lol: :lmao: :lol2:

sorry,I just couldn't resist,(my smart a** side coming through)

how thick would you think the fiberglass would need to be to support that much water?

 

[redtop03]

Rhodophyta,
I have reworked my stand and beef it up some,I doubled the 2x6 and added 1x6 between them,around the perimeter, glued, clamped, and screwed them together,and added more cross pieces,on 12" centers,and added more 2x4 uprights in the corners,

I dont know if that will be enough,but it sure made it a lot stronger and heavier.

heres some pics

 

[redtop03]

cap'n,with the extra wood for the stand,and some extra bulkheads,I'll be around $913.80 for the tank and stand,but I'm gonna owe my sister about $350,

I got the slip bulkheads the first that I ordered,I wanted the threaded,so I ordered more,got one for the sump so I can use an external pump if decide to later,plus I'll be putting one in the tank for a closed loop,I'll just run the returns over the top.I just don't want to drill anymore holes in the tank

bulkreefsupply.com has a sequence snapper pump for $209.99,I'll probably go that route,with an OM wave maker for the closed loop,be 'bout 2400gph

I'm thinking 'bout 1200 to 1800gph for the sump pump,what do you think I would need?

I have an eheim 1262 I'm using on the 150,I'll use it until I can afford a bigger pump

I'm not gonna upgrade the skimmer for a while but I have 3 turbo floater 1000's I can use,all 3 would need around 700 to 800gph fed from the drain,but I don't know if I'd need all 3,1 of these was doing a good job on the 150,since I added the 120 to the system I also added the second skimmer to the system,I found the third skimmer at a LFS used for price I couldn't pass up,so I have an extra

how many gph would I need running to the chaeto fuge?

and if I use the RDSB how many gph for it?

 

[das75]

great build, thanks for sharing

 

[redtop03]

thanx das75,thanx for looking

 

[chriscobb]

Looking good!!!!

 

[shovel]

are you woried about the corners of thank where you screwd the but joints together into end grain of plywood? did you glue the crap out of it? will the fiberglass also hold it together? not trying to be a spoil sport just with that water volume that is a lot of pressure on a weak point what are youre thoughts? and this looks sweet by the bye good wood working!

 

[chriscobb]

Honestly it shouldn't be worried about the joints.......But for added piece of mind that is why i "rabbeted" my joints, and I feel the need for the 45s'.

 

[redtop03]

I'm not too worried,I did glue it well,fiberglass should hold it,its all very strong,I was very careful not to split the plywood by pre drilling my holes,that glue is some tuff stuff,I wore it on my hands for about a week,finally got it all scrubbed off,couldn't find anything that would take it off,tried paint thinner,tried gas,tried bleach it was embarrassing

 

[redtop03]

chris,
something happened to my last coat of paint,it has a dull look to,no shine at all,I used the last I had,I can't figure what went wrong.

it dried good none of the other coats did that,it may still be alright,but I ordered another gallon,and I'll try it again

 

[redtop03]

I'll have so much paint on it,I'll loose a gallon or two of water volume

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14976607#post14976607 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chriscobb
Honestly it shouldn't be worried about the joints.......But for added piece of mind that is why i "rabbeted" my joints, and I feel the need for the 45s'.

Lots of people used to "feel the need" for the 45's. Think about this. The tank flexes, which it will do. It's plywood. If there is a single seam right at the butt joint of the two plywood panels, it cannot open up much. If there are two seams an inch or inch and a half up and in from the plywood seam, the 45 is solid wood which does not flex or expand the same way plywood does. There is going to be a much larger gap on either side of the 45's which will probably be beyond the ability of the waterproofing to bridge without eventual failure. If you feel the need for a 45, make it a bead of silicone over the fiberglass/resin or epoxy.

 

[MattShack]

redtop03 - Just read through your build (again)
It may be too late to respond now, but at the start you were asking about your top bracing. I think it looks good. I'll post a link to a plywood tank that I've seen in person. His looks good and his top bracing was done similar to yours and his is fine, except yours looks stronger. I think your stand looks more than strong enough. I have a DIY stand for a 120 gallon that is made from 3/4" plywood only. No 2"x4" uprights at all. Just 2"x4"'s around the top on the inside to support the plywood top. Works great with no problems. If you want to make sure, covering the perimeter with plywood would add tons of strength.
FWIW - I don't see any problems with the way you have your screws on the inside. I don't see how they could cause a problem being covered in Bondo and the fiberglass.
I think it looks good.
I am getting ready to start my 1000 we were talking about on acrosteve's build thread. I'm sorry if I missed it in the thread if you have alread covered it. But, what brand of epoxy did you use? and how do you like the Sweetwater? I plan on using it on mine. Probably going to start my build thread in a few weeks.
Link to tank I've seen - http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1046155

 

[MattShack]

One more thing. I saw where you were going to use 2 surge buckets. I would definitely consider covering the stand in plywood. That volume of water rocking back and forth will put a lot of lateral stress on the stand and even though it's strong enough to support the vertical weight, you might have a problem in the long run on the lateral load causing the stand to collapse to the side. Plywood would make it resistant to the lateral load of the water rocking in the aquarium. Kind of like putting plywood on the outside of a house to resist the lateral wind load on the walls. Don't know if you would ever have a problem, but just a thought to consider.

 

[redtop03]

matt,
thanks,I was considering the surge buckets,but I've bout decided against it....I am planning on this being built in,so it would have a wall for the lateral support,plus extra bracing,and I do plan on the ends of the stand being covered with plywood,and maybe some of the front,but I'm gonna leave the back open for servicing....I was concerned with the strength of the stand also for that reason

the epoxy that I used was from here http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/the-Resins-cln-Epoxy-resin/Categories I think this is a really good product,but I hadn't ever worked with any other brand before,so I don't know about the other brands,most everybody uses the mas or west systems,but I'm on a really tight budget and what I got was cheaper,it has little to no smell,it sets fairly quick with about 90 deg. temp.I'd for sure use it again...

thanks for that link,thats 1 I haven't read yet......on my top bracing,do you think I can take out the 2 braces that I don't want,just use the center brace like the Dr did in that his build?

I'm probable gonna leave all 3 cross braces anyway,I doubled the plywood on the cross braces,and the way I cut out the top,the euro will be doubled in the front and tripled in the rear

 

[redtop03]

matt,almost forgot,1000 gal.just the tank,or the hole system...1000 gal tank would be sweet you are gonna to do a build thread on that,I hope,I want to see that come to life......have you looked at the 1000 gal. tank that kent from fingerlakesreef did,9'x5' with 3 glass panes,peninsula style....I was considering kent as the plywood guru,but after acrosteve built his,kent has some competition for that title now in my eyes ....you listen to those 2 people for your build,I'm sure you'll have an excellent build...good luck to you

matt I PMed you that link to kents build