redtop03's 360 gallon plywood adventure

[redtop03]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941333#post14941333 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodophyta


On tanks taller than 24" or fiberglassed tanks of any height, I would bring up a frame around the tank, built like a residential wood wall with studs on 12" centers, or closer with really tall tanks, but not attached to the tank. It will be part of the stand. This will reduce flexing when the water level in the tank is changed. Using a sump and doing your water changes there will help by reducing the number of times the tank is flexed by changes in water level.

I like this idea for the wall supporting the tank,but the 12" centers would make it impossible to get into the sump for me,could this be built from the top of the stand up,and still prevent the flexing

I always do the water change in the sump,its less disturbing to the critters.

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941622#post14941622 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03
your saying use 2 2x6s with a strip or 1/2" plywood sandwiched between them for the front of the stand,to support the wall in the tank where the glass will be?

if this is what you're meaning,wouldn't it be best to do the whole top perimeter of the stand that way to support all the plywood seams

I've not went so far that I can't change things on the stand yet,
if you think I should change anything let me know,that just means disassemble and re cut,once I have it like I want,I will disassemble and glue all the wood joints anyway,so I want to make sure it doesn't collapse,thats a lot of weight going on it,I also plan on it being built in,so the wall will help with keeping it from shifting sideways

Yes it would be best to do the whole perimeter that way, but the bottom center of the silicone seal around the glass is critical. If the bottom sags near it, it can pop. Taking out the crosspieces will mean less cutting, and a stronger result, close to a laminated wood beam. When you put the cross pieces back in, glue a rail below them and "toenail" them back in. I think that term visualizes how the screws go in diagonally and the screwheads sort of look like toenails. I would go with closer centers (12 or 8 OC) in a tank deeper than 24". On a 24" tall tank, I run an extra rail left to right down the middle and omit the crosspieces, less cutting and room for a strip light if you want light in the sump area. Closet fixtures and PC bulbs will fit between the crosspieces.

 

[redtop03]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941686#post14941686 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodophyta
Yes it would be best to do the whole perimeter that way, but the bottom center of the silicone seal around the glass is critical. If the bottom sags near it, it can pop. Taking out the crosspieces will mean less cutting, and a stronger result, close to a laminated wood beam. When you put the cross pieces back in, glue a rail below them and "toenail" them back in. I think that term visualizes how the screws go in diagonally and the screwheads sort of look like toenails. I would go with closer centers (12 or 8 OC) in a tank deeper than 24". On a 24" tall tank, I run an extra rail left to right down the middle and omit the crosspieces, less cutting and room for a strip light if you want light in the sump area. Closet fixtures and PC bulbs will fit between the crosspieces.

gotha,I'll get some more 2x6s and change that,I like the idea of the center beam from side to side better than the way I have it,should I use more than 1 in the center?

 

[chriscobb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941356#post14941356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodophyta
A heat exchanger would be more energy efficient than an exhaust fan. It brings in outside air exchanging the heat so you don't lose your heat in the winter and vice versa in the summer. Dehumidifiers produce waste heat which is OK in winter, but cost more to run.

Sorry should have been alittle more clear...not using your typical exhaust fan.....Heat exchanger isn't an option

 

[chriscobb]

Rhodophyta I had asked a question a long time ago about laminating pieces and was strongly advised against doing that saying that it was waste of time and that would be an area that would lead to failure???? I would think finding less damaging ways to attach the 45's such as Gorilla glue would help the situation, but when you reflect that you are trying to find a way to insert these with minimal damage, not using them at all is safest.
If you want to reduce the bend in fiberglass layers, using a fiberglass product intended for that purpose seems more appropriate.
So your telling me I should void the technical advice from West Epoxy techs?

 

[Rhodophyta]

Chriscobb, I was kind of switching back and forth between tank and stand topics so I don't know which you are referring to. When you "laminate" boards for the stand, you don't just glue and screw, but you also clamp well. It's the clamping that makes the result strong and stable. The grain in the opposing boards should be turned for the best symmetry. If the grain in one board runs to the left, try to turn the other board so its grain runs to the right. I have stands built this way in 2004 that still look brand new and still have no deflection.

Yes any laminating in the tank should be avoided, such as the 45's. Sometimes with huge tanks bigger than available plywood panels, you have to make a joint and box or laminate over it. I'd prefer a boxing with a gasket, since it seems more dependable to me, and if it does go wrong, it is a lot easier to correct.

As to West System techs, there is no advice on the West Systems site when you search under "plywood aquarium". Only some great tips/articles on building wood boats which may or may not apply when you switch from solid cedar strips to plywood panels. In a boat the water is obviously on the outside compressing the boat while we have the opposite problem of water pushing out and trying to open seams rather than compressing them together. I would think an adhesive panel filler for fiberglass would be better than the 45's. You could round it like a big silicone corner bead so it would actually have less angle to it than the 45 degree angles have.

 

[chriscobb]

Thanks Rhodophyta that is what I'm doing with the 45s when applying the thickened epoxy making it less of an angle.....I fully understand the process of watching grains on laminating.
On larger tanks bigger than the standard dimensions of plywood I've seen people use "biscuits" to make longer panels...

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14943605#post14943605 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chriscobb
Thanks Rhodophyta that is what I'm doing with the 45s when applying the thickened epoxy making it less of an angle.....I fully understand the process of watching grains on laminating.
On larger tanks bigger than the standard dimensions of plywood I've seen people use "biscuits" to make longer panels...

Not too keen on biscuits in plywood. Work great in solid wood. I've seen plywood panels up to 20 feet long special order so with a really long tank, I think that would be wiser.

I think just the thickened epoxy or the adhesive panel filter would reduce the angles better alone than when over the 45's. When the plywood flexes, the 45 will cause the flex to concentrate along its seams even buried under the filler. Without the 45, the flex would be spread over a larger area.

 

[thriceanangel]

Not sure the quality of the ply you're using, but biscuits will work fine in any higher quality ply. Go for furniture quality -AB or even AC pine and the biscuits will work awesome. I understand what Rhodophyta is saying, and for lesser quality plywood the biscuit will probably not be as tight or have the possibility to be slid into a void spot/gap in the plys. But this sin't the case in the more expensive PW.

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941678#post14941678 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03
I like this idea for the wall supporting the tank,but the 12" centers would make it impossible to get into the sump for me,could this be built from the top of the stand up,and still prevent the flexing.....

It's only for the back and sides of the tank, not the front, which will be largely glass, not fiberglassed plywood. You should still be able to access a sump from the front. Maybe not ideal since side access can be nice. Plus, yes, you could start them at tank level. They don't have to go all the way to the floor or all the way to the ceiling, though when practical I have done it that way.

 

[redtop03]

I was planning on maintenance being done from the rear,in sort of the fish room/closet,the side access wont be possible,8' tank centered in a 12' nook

I was studying on it today and I think I can do what your saying and still have access from behind,....floor to ceiling on the sides and around to the stand openings in the rear,...frame in above the openings to connect the 2 sides,and anchor to the stand all the way around,...I hadn't thought about all this til you mentioned it,but it all makes sense to me.

I have to have some frame work in there for my light anyway

Rhodophyta,I appreciate all your help with this,I'm glad the cap'n talked me into starting this thread

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14945418#post14945418 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03
I was planning on maintenance being done from the rear,in sort of the fish room/closet,the side access wont be possible,8' tank centered in a 12' nook

I was studying on it today and I think I can do what your saying and still have access from behind,....floor to ceiling on the sides and around to the stand openings in the rear,...frame in above the openings to connect the 2 sides,and anchor to the stand all the way around,...I hadn't thought about all this til you mentioned it,but it all makes sense to me.

I have to have some frame work in there for my light anyway

Rhodophyta,I appreciate all your help with this,I'm glad the cap'n talked me into starting this thread

:thumbsup:

maybe I can convince you on the blogs also

http://www.reefcentral.com/wp/?p=346

 

[redtop03]

cap'n,I don't think I'll go that far,may be in a few years,I got a lot a learning to do yet

starting this thread has been great,I've learned a little....I know to not use Superglue gel in China....from waterkeeper....I'll never forget that

 

[redtop03]

I ordered my glass for the tank yesterday,should have it in a week or so

cap'n, its gonna cost a little more than from glasscages.com but the place is a lot closer to home for me,

glasscages.com quoted it for $175.....about 300miles from here

the place I ordered it from quoted it for $192.54......about 30 miles from here,I can't drive to glasscages for the difference.

still less than $800 in the tank,I used cheaper epoxy and fiberglass,and not as much,than most that have built these things,and I didn't get it as smooth as I wanted.

I hope that don't come back and bite me on the rear

 

[chriscobb]

Water Test!!!!!!

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14956855#post14956855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chriscobb
Water Test!!!!!!

he hasn't got the front glass in yet:eek2:

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14956108#post14956108 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03
I ordered my glass for the tank yesterday,should have it in a week or so

cap'n, its gonna cost a little more than from glasscages.com but the place is a lot closer to home for me,

glasscages.com quoted it for $175.....about 300miles from here

the place I ordered it from quoted it for $192.54......about 30 miles from here,I can't drive to glasscages for the difference.

still less than $800 in the tank,I used cheaper epoxy and fiberglass,and not as much,than most that have built these things,and I didn't get it as smooth as I wanted.

I hope that don't come back and bite me on the rear

a water test will only tell
that's excellent on the price---wow they might be still hope for me to one day go to a 220 gal even though we have been stripped of our charge cards

 

[WaterKeeper]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14956108#post14956108 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03
I hope that don't come back and bite me on the rear

A good reason not to get a shark or a really big Morey.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14957847#post14957847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
A good reason not to get a shark or a really big Morey.

or a bobbit worm:eek2: :lol:

 

[redtop03]

I could handle a shark or a moray eel

3 or 4 hundred gallons of water in the floor,

the wife would be mean :furious:


stripped of the charge card.....I finally cut mine up.....after I bought the plywood,fiberglass epoxy and epoxy paint

I was shocked when she quoted the price,they recommended that I use tempered,so thats what I ordered

yep,the water test will tell,I went over the inside with a D A sander this evening,put another coat of paint on,it looks a little better now.