Sea Shepard turns its attention to our hobby
- Thread starter Ooulophilia
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cortez marine
In Memoriam
How do you work full time on something for 30 some years and avoid that charge?
The difference between exploitation and full time commitment to a cause is...is what?
Steve
The difference between exploitation and full time commitment to a cause is...is what?
Steve
cortez marine
In Memoriam
Re-investing in the cause and spending months at sea.... especially in the nastiest of oceans, the Southern Ocean make the charge absurd.
Then again, we could support the International Whaling Commissions fine, non expoitive efforts...or how bout the ....er....comon, there must be another one out there doing something!
Steve
Then again, we could support the International Whaling Commissions fine, non expoitive efforts...or how bout the ....er....comon, there must be another one out there doing something!
Steve
returnofsid
New member
The same TV show that has brought the issue to the forefront of millions of people, who happen to watch TV. The issue would be virtually unknown, if it weren't for the "sensationalism" that the show represents.
Hold on Steve. I like you but this is a double standard!
The thing is, (correct me if I'm wrong) Minke whales are not at risk and the only reason people don't like hunting them is because they have an emotional attachment to the animal. Same with harp seals.
This is exactly the same reason why people are attacking the aquarium trade. If you ask, many of them will say that it's the 21st century and it's time to stop imprisoning reef animals for our entertainment. Of course I don't agree with this but I can see how people would think that way.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
As I wrote a week or so back in this thread;
As a diver all my life, I have had dozens of encounters with whales and dolphins and I can tell you, there is something more going on in their minds then any other animals. [ but, I admit to never working around other primates]
Equating the soul of a Minke Whale with a yellow tang is indicative of an ignorance its a shame to have to deal with.
Steve
ps.
I am sorry for Hawaiian collectors that have to work near so many knee jerk irrationals that never do anything but trash the livlihood of collectors.
Everyone loves the fish, no one loves the fisherman.
As a diver all my life, I have had dozens of encounters with whales and dolphins and I can tell you, there is something more going on in their minds then any other animals. [ but, I admit to never working around other primates]
Equating the soul of a Minke Whale with a yellow tang is indicative of an ignorance its a shame to have to deal with.
Steve
ps.
I am sorry for Hawaiian collectors that have to work near so many knee jerk irrationals that never do anything but trash the livlihood of collectors.
Everyone loves the fish, no one loves the fisherman.
Dingo44
New member
Just like the 9-11 terrorists, Paul Watson sees himself as some sort of hero and not as a terrorist. They all see themselves as heroes on a mission from God. Paul Watson and his friends probably see the hijackers more as heroes and less as Terrorists.
If Paul Watson and the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society really wanted to end whaling, all he would have to do is to find the whaling ships and follow the whalers in boats fitted with underwater acoustic equipment much like the LRAD system the Japanese whalers have used. This would frighten the whales away and keep them away from the whaling ships. Something on the order an ultrasonic dog repellant device. With the physics of sound waves traveling through water, there would not be whale within 10 miles of a whaling boat, but that would negate having to engage in direct contact with the enemy that makes for great fundraising stories i.e. there is no money in that plan. It would also allow for utilizing much smaller boats to thwart the whaler's efforts. No sea captain wants to downsize their boat and with Paul Watson's ego built up on being an outlaw rebel pirate, no reduction in boat length is going to happen. Of course if money is the primary concern over their actions attempting to save whales, there is no reason to adopt this battle plan.
This is how I feel about the situation as well, people who don't like what the Japanese are doing are imposing their values on a different culture just because they have an emotional attachment to the animals. The Japanese don't see the animals as some magical creature with the same mental level as humans, they're just animals.
ps.
I am sorry for whalers that have to work near so many knee jerk irrationals that never do anything but trash the livlihood of whalers.
Everyone loves the whales, no one loves the whalers.
If Paul Watson and the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society really wanted to end whaling, all he would have to do is to find the whaling ships and follow the whalers in boats fitted with underwater acoustic equipment much like the LRAD system the Japanese whalers have used. This would frighten the whales away and keep them away from the whaling ships. Something on the order an ultrasonic dog repellant device. With the physics of sound waves traveling through water, there would not be whale within 10 miles of a whaling boat, but that would negate having to engage in direct contact with the enemy that makes for great fundraising stories i.e. there is no money in that plan. It would also allow for utilizing much smaller boats to thwart the whaler's efforts. No sea captain wants to downsize their boat and with Paul Watson's ego built up on being an outlaw rebel pirate, no reduction in boat length is going to happen. Of course if money is the primary concern over their actions attempting to save whales, there is no reason to adopt this battle plan.
This is how I feel about the situation as well, people who don't like what the Japanese are doing are imposing their values on a different culture just because they have an emotional attachment to the animals. The Japanese don't see the animals as some magical creature with the same mental level as humans, they're just animals.
ps.
I am sorry for whalers that have to work near so many knee jerk irrationals that never do anything but trash the livlihood of whalers.
Everyone loves the whales, no one loves the whalers.
Maivortex
New member
The LRAD seems like a great idea!
cortez marine
In Memoriam
E
Did you really say that? Did you think its the same?
Wow! We have flushed out some pro whaling people here.
Steve
[ ie. no one loves the ones who kill them?]
Did you really say that? Did you think its the same?
Wow! We have flushed out some pro whaling people here.
Steve
Dingo44
New member
I flipped around what you said to show the perspective of the Japanese and other whaling countries. I really don't see anything wrong with sustainable whaling, they are a bounty of the sea like any other creature. I don't like the whaling, or fishing for that matter, of endangered species, the key word is sustainable. The people who are against all types of whaling have an emotional attachment to the animals, and emotions can be irrational.
Dingo44
New member
What many people keep bringing up in relation to the research is that more, less lethal, ways are available: therefore the Japanese research isn't real research. No, it's not that simple. Despite some actual advancements in whale biology and understanding, the research entails sustainability of whale populations in relation to fishing. Their research has pretty much conclusively shown that, especially Minke, certain whale populations can be hunted routinely and sustainably. Their research is to show the point that whaling has no reason forever being banned, forever thinking that whales shouldn't be eaten for no other reason than a built in social ignorance that they are "speshul". Whales were originally protected SO their populations could be sustained. And if whaling were to continue again, as a consumer venture, whaling would be regulated and the whale populations still sustained.
The people who are against whaling for no reason other than a unfounded, paranoid fear or hatred for it are the same people who got horse meat banned in the US. Horse lovers lobbied to have horse meat banned from sale for no other reason than they didn't like seeing horses be killed. Which shut down well doing horse meat factories, for no reason.
The people who are against whaling for no reason other than a unfounded, paranoid fear or hatred for it are the same people who got horse meat banned in the US. Horse lovers lobbied to have horse meat banned from sale for no other reason than they didn't like seeing horses be killed. Which shut down well doing horse meat factories, for no reason.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
...and dogs?
They are sustainable to be sure.
The feeling of a kinship to the more intelligent animals is not the result of a scientific process.
I hope that if aliens ever come to earth, they don't think as you.
I pray that they find something in us worth considering beyond the simple sustainability equation.
Obviously theres a value judgement in holding self aware creatures in higher regard.
If it seperates us from minimalist, simplistic thinking, so be it.
They are sustainable to be sure.
The feeling of a kinship to the more intelligent animals is not the result of a scientific process.
I hope that if aliens ever come to earth, they don't think as you.
I pray that they find something in us worth considering beyond the simple sustainability equation.
Obviously theres a value judgement in holding self aware creatures in higher regard.
If it seperates us from minimalist, simplistic thinking, so be it.
Dog Food
Dog Food
Dingo should get off those two (edible) horses he seems so fond of: 'cultural imposition' and "emotional attachment'.
Cortez makes a good point about dogs. Why not eat all those protein consuming non-productive golden retrievers and cocker spaniels? Dog meat, I'm told, is very tasty, and we have scores of millions of dogs in the US, enough to supply a substantial amount of our habitual meat consumption.
And they are, after all, only animals, and certainly not nearly as smart as even the most educationally disadvantaged whale. There is no reason not to eat dogs, unless one has some imbecilic emotional attachment to those walking canineburgers. Large scale edible dog breeding facilities could easily be established, perhaps by that same guy who owns all those egg farms.
Down with cultural relativism!
Dog Food
Dingo should get off those two (edible) horses he seems so fond of: 'cultural imposition' and "emotional attachment'.
Cortez makes a good point about dogs. Why not eat all those protein consuming non-productive golden retrievers and cocker spaniels? Dog meat, I'm told, is very tasty, and we have scores of millions of dogs in the US, enough to supply a substantial amount of our habitual meat consumption.
And they are, after all, only animals, and certainly not nearly as smart as even the most educationally disadvantaged whale. There is no reason not to eat dogs, unless one has some imbecilic emotional attachment to those walking canineburgers. Large scale edible dog breeding facilities could easily be established, perhaps by that same guy who owns all those egg farms.
Down with cultural relativism!
You might want to take a good a look at the ingredients in fish food used to raise those fish at the farm, as well as in your tanks. All that krill, mysis, clam, silversides, fish meal, etc. is from wild caught sources. It goes right down the choice of which life is valuable and which considered expendable as a "sustainable resource". A lot of personal ethical choices involved, Nemo is emotionally valuable to us, therefore needs to be protected from collecting, while mysis, who cares so long as the fishery is sustainable. It's a completely human construct that he individual organism in question could care less about
cortez marine
In Memoriam
What if you take wild carpet anemones to house your tank raised Nemos?
Anemones may give rise to years and years of generations of clownfish in the wild....Therefore, for a tank taised Nemo to be a positive for the environment, you must for sure disdain wildcaught anemones....right?
Steve
Anemones may give rise to years and years of generations of clownfish in the wild....Therefore, for a tank taised Nemo to be a positive for the environment, you must for sure disdain wildcaught anemones....right?
Steve
Dingo44
New member
It goes right down the choice of which life is valuable and which considered expendable as a "sustainable resource". A lot of personal ethical choices involved, Nemo is emotionally valuable to us, therefore needs to be protected from collecting, while mysis, who cares so long as the fishery is sustainable. It's a completely human construct that he individual organism in question could care less about
That's exactly why we don't eat dogs, it's a human construct and emotionally valuable to us, as Bill so eloquently put, along with being offended about whaling. Other countries have different constructs and emotions about various animals. Who is right? Who is the Judge of who is right?
I have a deep emotional attachment to my pet Mysis (Sis) . Because dogs (filthy beasts) are not emotionally valuable to me, I feed Sis dog meat. One miniature Jack Russell lasts for years, if you slice them real thin.
The obvious "Judge" is the easily determinable size of the potential food source, and its likely survival as a species. Giant Blue Tuna, whales, tigers, tortoises, seahorses, and a host of other beings that have dwindled in numbers because moral cretins find them tasty or have some delusional belief that they can improve their potency, should be given absolute protection. Those who would turn them into human feces because they taste good should suffer the same fate. I'd start with people in my own culture.
Who is right?
Moral relativism is one of the great intellectual crimes that has eroded civilization. I have no problem with snatching whale meat out of the mouths of millionaire Japanese and feeding these selfish punks to whatever sharks still have fins. Ending imports of beef to this country would also be helpful. Learn to grill vegetables, and eat less in general.
The obvious "Judge" is the easily determinable size of the potential food source, and its likely survival as a species. Giant Blue Tuna, whales, tigers, tortoises, seahorses, and a host of other beings that have dwindled in numbers because moral cretins find them tasty or have some delusional belief that they can improve their potency, should be given absolute protection. Those who would turn them into human feces because they taste good should suffer the same fate. I'd start with people in my own culture.
Who is right?
Moral relativism is one of the great intellectual crimes that has eroded civilization. I have no problem with snatching whale meat out of the mouths of millionaire Japanese and feeding these selfish punks to whatever sharks still have fins. Ending imports of beef to this country would also be helpful. Learn to grill vegetables, and eat less in general.
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