Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
TheFishMan65
New member
That would work for location. The Sanitary Ts has a wider bend and may be quieter, but are harder to find. You might find it in 1.5 inches, but not in .75.
mc-cro
(macro)
Regarding the valve being at the end of a long run, I understand it in theory. However, in practical application it can be tricky to set up.
In my set up, my sump is in the basement, with about a 15ft horizontal run. I have the valve about a foot below the tank, and I adjust the siphon flow from there, and I can see the water level in the overflow and make small adjustments as needed without running up and down the stairs. The downside, is that it does take several minutes for the water to fill the long run of pipe, and the open channel does take on a most of flow while the siphon is starting, and it sometimes takes quite a while before it settles in. On occasion it has taken hours to get all the air bubbles out and quite flushing. I think this is due to all the open air space in the full siphon line between the valve and the sump basement sump.
If you put the valve at the end of the run, it will fill up the pipe, and create a full siphon much quicker, however I cannot see the water level in the overflow chamber, and the only way I know what is happening is by watching how much water is coming out of the open and overflow channels. I have flooded my floor this way when I was only running 2 lines and did not have the emergency overflow. (imagine standing in the basement trying to gauge the water flow, when water starts dripping on your head)
IME having the valve at the end of the run makes more sense, however its kinda of a pain in the butt. The same thing can be accomplished with the valve at the bulkhead end of the line.
In my set up, my sump is in the basement, with about a 15ft horizontal run. I have the valve about a foot below the tank, and I adjust the siphon flow from there, and I can see the water level in the overflow and make small adjustments as needed without running up and down the stairs. The downside, is that it does take several minutes for the water to fill the long run of pipe, and the open channel does take on a most of flow while the siphon is starting, and it sometimes takes quite a while before it settles in. On occasion it has taken hours to get all the air bubbles out and quite flushing. I think this is due to all the open air space in the full siphon line between the valve and the sump basement sump.
If you put the valve at the end of the run, it will fill up the pipe, and create a full siphon much quicker, however I cannot see the water level in the overflow chamber, and the only way I know what is happening is by watching how much water is coming out of the open and overflow channels. I have flooded my floor this way when I was only running 2 lines and did not have the emergency overflow. (imagine standing in the basement trying to gauge the water flow, when water starts dripping on your head)
IME having the valve at the end of the run makes more sense, however its kinda of a pain in the butt. The same thing can be accomplished with the valve at the bulkhead end of the line.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
The problem is that in a system with a long vertical drop, cavitation may exist all of the time. This cavitation will most likely be at or near the bulkhead and be rather noisy.
To revisit though...
Even if it takes two people to get the system set, it really never has to be adjusted
You have no chance of flooding during adjustments, even if you are by yourself, as the system is fail-safe with regard to you fully closing the siphon valve
To revisit though...
Even if it takes two people to get the system set, it really never has to be adjusted
You have no chance of flooding during adjustments, even if you are by yourself, as the system is fail-safe with regard to you fully closing the siphon valve
Tautog
New member
Bean, thanks for being such a help to everyone on here and now it's my turn to ask a couple of dumb questions with this being my first system with a sump. I am downgrading from a 90 to 75. What I'd like to do is make the box centered in the tank at an over all length of 40". Then on each side of the box I'd like to drill out my holes for 2 returns. Would this be an acceptable design? Also does it matter where the 3 siphons are located in the box and what order they are in? What would be the proper return pump size for what I am designing, I only plan on soft,lps,zoos, no sps. I was planning on something equivalent to the mag 9.5. Then as far as pluming goes a couple of people said that the lines could be 1" instead of the 1.5''. Would that be okay also? I tried finding some dimensions as far as the height of the overflow box and the depth from the wall it should be, but that hasn't been easy to find. I am extremely sorry for all the PITA questions, but this is something I really want to do and the more I read the crazier it makes me, so I'd figure I'd go right to the source. Thanks for your time.
Pete
Pete
GPrime22
New member
Curious as to how the whole system works, i've read through the main article but i dont understand how the full siphon (without the airline tubing) starts up and begins siphoning on its own. im filling up my tank now and its not doing anything, the emergency kicks in untill the open channel gets the water inside the box to the appropriate level but the full siphon is not doing anything. do i need to prime it? If so then how does it kick back in if say a power outtage happens?
RocketSurgeon
New member
If you followed the directions correctly, the system works. post pics of what you have, or explain in detail. We can help identify the problem.
Two main reasons the full siphon doesn't start, air leak and pipes terminate too deep into the sump. Remember that air tight and water tight are two separate terms.
TheFishMan65
New member
Do you have a picture?
Is the valve all the way open?
Where do the ends terminate in the sump?
What are the heights of the intake?
I think we need a little more information.
Is the valve all the way open?
Where do the ends terminate in the sump?
What are the heights of the intake?
I think we need a little more information.
GPrime22
New member
I think that would be the main problem as it is right now we were just testing the system out but the ends of the pipe are terminating about 10" under the water level ( we were planning to cut them shorter, following the design guide ) but didnt think it would be an issue during the initial system test, but thinking about it now realizing how much it has to push out the existing water in the pipe rather than just "falling" out puts to much back pressure on the siphon. will report back once ends are shortened to proper length. and yes the full siphons ball valve is fully open for now
RocketSurgeon
New member
It's an issue! Good luck finishing up the build.
GPrime22
New member
the water level isnt not high enough in the overflow box, or your elbows arnt deep enough causing the siphon to draw in air would be the only other thing i can think of.
RocketSurgeon
New member
Need to isolate where the bubbles are coming from. Are they in the Display or the Sump? Open channel or Siphon?
In my experience, Bubbles in the siphon are from a bad connection, generally the threads of the cap or a faulty valve.
RocketSurgeon
New member
My tank is 9 3/4 inches from the wall. The pipes are 6 1/2 inches.
I purposely have my tank out from the wall, because my skimmer was too tall to fit under the stand comfortably (would have made it extremely uncomfortable to remove waste cup).
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GPrime22
New member
That was the issue, the pipes were terminating too deep under the water, everything isworking nicely, the emergencies not even being used during the initial startup, i used 1 1/2 ABS so maybe i might have gone a little big? but its a 120g tank so i dont see the harm.
wasnt using the final return pump for testing so itll take some time before we get it dialed in right, but everything looking good *knocks on wood* thanks for the help guys.
wasnt using the final return pump for testing so itll take some time before we get it dialed in right, but everything looking good *knocks on wood* thanks for the help guys.
1234
New member
Bean
I'm helping a friend with his new build and I'm thinking of having him use 2" for the Bean Animal. His tank will be 72" x 27" x 47.5" with a 48" external overflow. Either that or use x2 1 1/2" as you suggested on your web site, but as you mentioned balancing between the two will be hard.
See any problems?
I'm helping a friend with his new build and I'm thinking of having him use 2" for the Bean Animal. His tank will be 72" x 27" x 47.5" with a 48" external overflow. Either that or use x2 1 1/2" as you suggested on your web site, but as you mentioned balancing between the two will be hard.
See any problems?
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