Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

OK, I see what you're talking about now. The airhose on the Durso needs to be above normal water level in your weir, but slightly below the emergency intake level. This way it's an open-channel standpipe under normal operation. And then you'd want to open the valve on it, too... it should not be restricted. I think you've got it throttled because it's also being used as a siphon right now.
 
afgun said:
OK, I see what you're talking about now. The airhose on the Durso needs to be above normal water level in your weir, but slightly below the emergency intake level. This way it's an open-channel standpipe under normal operation. And then you'd want to open the valve on it, too... it should not be restricted. I think you've got it throttled because it's also being used as a siphon right now.
Click to expand...

Actually you have this reversed, and I've seen it installed improperly in several posts. Now I'm no expert and haven't run one of these before, but Bean says what's on his site is accurate and nothing has changed

from Bean's site

1) The Emergency (left) standpipe is set at a level slightly higher than the normal operating height of the overflow box. It is simply an up-turned elbow or strainer. If the water level rises above the normal operating level then it will flow down the Emergency (left) standpipe. This standpipe is also airtight. If the water level rises high enough the standpipe will begin to siphon and flush the overflow box.

NOTE:The Emergency (left) standpipe will also kick in during system startup. It takes a few moments for the air to be purged from the Siphon (middle) standpipe, during which time the water level in the overflow box may run high and into the Emergency (left) standpipe.

2) The Open Channel (right) standpipe is equipped with an airline that is attached to the high water line in the overflow box. If the water level rises to the critical point of overflow and the Emergency (left) standpipe can not handle the flow (say due to blockage from algae or something) then the water will cover the inlet of the airline. The flooded air intake will in effect convert the Open Channel (right) standpipe into a full siphon standpipe, allowing it to handle much more flow. This will flush the overflow box and prevent flooding.

That's it... simple and effective!
Click to expand...
 
I agree with opening the valve on the open channel. I was thinking that maybe the siphon is not starting fast enough which is why I suggested shortening the length in the sump.
 
Bean has suggested several times that the emergency and open channel pipes technically do not need valves, the only one that needs it it the siphon standpipe.

Although, if you wanted the open-channel to act exactly like the siphon standpipe in the event that the siphon standpipe clogged completely, it might be a good idea to put a valve on that one also and tune it separately (with siphon pipe closed)
 
The open and the emergency should be wide open and they don't need the valves on them the only reason bean had them on all three is because his was a test system and wanted to be able to control all of the valves the same.

You also want you air tube coming off the open channel pipe to be attached just below the top of the emergency elbow that way it kicks in first but will not always be in use and should be above the normal overflow box water level.

So open both the open channel and the emergency all the way... and only adjust the main siphon pipe.

Also the open and the main siphon should only be 1/2" to 1" below the sump water level... as far as the emergency should terminate just above the normal operating level because you want to know when the emergency is in use and you should be able to hear it splashing.
 
quick question for those who did not use the external box setup... how far out do the pipes stick out from the back of your tank?
 
Would uniseals be a wise choice for the bottom of an external overflow? Or should I still use bulkheads?
Also, does the plumbing remain the same with the sanitary tee just above the uniseal or bulked? Or is there a more optimal way of plumbing the external overflow?
 
Floyd R Turbo said:
Bean has suggested several times that the emergency and open channel pipes technically do not need valves, the only one that needs it it the siphon standpipe.

Although, if you wanted the open-channel to act exactly like the siphon standpipe in the event that the siphon standpipe clogged completely, it might be a good idea to put a valve on that one also and tune it separately (with siphon pipe closed)
Click to expand...

You don't want to regulate the open channel under any circumstance. The valve (if used) is only there as a shut-off control if needed. This standpipe needs to be wide open during system operation.
 
scott26 said:
Also the open and the main siphon should only be 1/2" to 1" below the sump water level... as far as the emergency should terminate just above the normal operating level because you want to know when the emergency is in use and you should be able to hear it splashing.
Click to expand...

BeanAnimal said:
It will work just fine if it terminates above the water level. You don't need to worry about the splashing sounds alerting you... the sucking and gurgling in the overflow box will be a dead giveaway :)
Click to expand...

I know that my overflow box starts making plenty of noise before the emergency ever kicks in.
 
Bean, there seems to be some disagreement about the position of the air tube for the open-channel. Your website has it to be above the emergency and below the maximum water line in the box so that the OC kicks in siphon mode if the emergency standpipe gets overwhelmed. Several builds I've seen and comment posted show/state that it should be positioned below the level of the emergency standpipe inlet.

Which is it, does it make that much of a difference?
 
Bean, there seems to be some disagreement about the position of the air tube for the open-channel. Your website has it to be above the emergency and below the maximum water line in the box so that the OC kicks in siphon mode if the emergency standpipe gets overwhelmed. Several builds I've seen and comment posted show/state that it should be positioned below the level of the emergency standpipe inlet.

Which is it, does it make that much of a difference?
 
Floyd R Turbo said:
does it make that much of a difference?
Click to expand...

The difference it makes is when the open channel becomes a siphon, Before or after the emergency kicks in.

I believe it may have something to do with the actual startup as well. From my understanding, When starting up, You do not want the open channel to start a siphon. You want the emergency to drain the excess water.

Excerpt below is copied from Bean's sight: (http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx)

"2) The Open Channel (right) standpipe is equipped with an airline that is attached to the high water line in the overflow box. If the water level rises to the critical point of overflow and the Emergency (left) standpipe can not handle the flow (say due to blockage from algae or something) then the water will cover the inlet of the airline. The flooded air intake will in effect convert the Open Channel (right) standpipe into a full siphon standpipe, allowing it to handle much more flow. This will flush the overflow box and prevent flooding."

According to above statement, the air line would be positioned above the emergency pipe.
 
Since my water level in the overflow rises very quickly (Dart pump), I have configured my open-channel airline just below the emergency standpipe lip, to turn on a siphon quickly during my startup. YMMV. :)
 
Yes, I posted that same quote yesterday in post 3064 and then scott26 posted the opposite in post 3067. This is why I requested some insight. I agree with you RS I'm just wondering why people suggest doing it otherwise, and if there is in indeed some reason.
 
I always thought the air line should be below the emergency. I have been corrected. But this was my reasoning. The open channel always has some water flow. So maybe algae, snail low light coral could grow in there and obstruct the drain. Not enough hear or see a problem. So now it tries to great a siphon an can't get enough flow. It always seemed to me that the emergency should handle this case.

I honestly don't know if it matters except maybe in some odd start up case. I also maybe missing something since my next tank will use this, my current does not support this type of drain.
 
? Wondering if I can jump in to ask some tank specific questions? I'm sure they've been covered but this thread is overwhelmingly long. My tank has a center overflow with there holes in it. Inch and a half, and two three quarter inch holes. If i use beans method with the 3/4"bulkhead for siphon, where do i place the valve? Also will stockman standpipes work with this method? and a few more questions if someone will help. I don't wanna give up, I'm not a quitter, but I'm frustrated!!
 
It will work the valve should be near the sump on a long run. If it is a short run it can be near the top.

Stockman will not be as quiet as designed here.

Did you look at Bean's website. It has all/most of the info without all the questions.
 
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