Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[ram1500]

Opted for the magdrive 9.5

Ill throttle it back as needed also t ing off for the refugium as well.

Gus

 

[rayn]

Would this system work the same with a plywood tank as with a glass tank? Would the drain pipe diameter need to be bumped up any or would the 1 1/2" still work? Tank would be around 400 gallons if that makes a difference.

 

[ram1500]

I picked up a bunch of 3/4" elbows, ball valves, and pvc pipe to plumb up the sump tomorrow night. Now I'm wondering if 3/4" is too small? should I have gone with 1"? Typical sump set up. Skimmer and refugium on the outsides and return section in the middle which will feed the refugium through a tee and ball valve to control flow.

72g bowfront, total 24" overflow with bean system.

Thanks
Gus

Any thoughts?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Gus,

It really depends on your return pump flow, but in general 3/4" for the open channel is very limiting. The mag 9.5 with head loss will likely give you somewhere in the neighborhood of 700 GPH. That is really on the borderline of the capacity of a 3/4" siphon with a 24" or so drop.

 

[ram1500]

Beananimal,

Sorry I may not have been clear. The siphon, open and third pipes are all 1-1/2" pvc exactly per your specs. I"ll post some finished pics soon. I was wondering about the return from the pump to the DT. The mag 9.5 has a 3/4" output and I just assumed 3/4" back to the DT would be fine. I'm also t'ing off the return for the refugium secion.

Tanks
Gus

Gus,

It really depends on your return pump flow, but in general 3/4" for the open channel is very limiting. The mag 9.5 with head loss will likely give you somewhere in the neighborhood of 700 GPH. That is really on the borderline of the capacity of a 3/4" siphon with a 24" or so drop.

 

[BeanAnimal]

It will be fine, though 1" or larger would have been better. Larger pipe is always better with regard to reducing frictional head loss. For your pump anything over maybe 1.25" has diminished return with regard to cost and convenience.

 

[ram1500]

Thanks... I think I'll bring back the pipe and fittings and exchange them for 1".

I probably should have asked before, not after...

Thanks
Gus

 

[scott26]

Since you 70 is close to my 90 what I did was use 1" street ells in the overflow and then converted to 1.5" tubing as the drains. Just an idea.

 

[ram1500]

My drain pipes are 1.5" down to the sump. I was unsure of the return size and going to make it a 1" pipe back to the DT

Thanks

Since you 70 is close to my 90 what I did was use 1" street ells in the overflow and then converted to 1.5" tubing as the drains. Just an idea.

 

[ram1500]

Another thought on the md 9.5. In addition to splitting off for the refugium will i lose any efficiency if i split the return back to th dt. One on eadh side of the tank. Going 1.25" on the plumbig

Thanks
Gus

 

[RocketSurgeon]

Another thought on the md 9.5. In addition to splitting off for the refugium will i lose any efficiency if i split the return back to th dt. One on eadh side of the tank. Going 1.25" on the plumbig

Thanks
Gus

I'm running a Mag 9.5 as well. I chose to use 1" pipe, splitting it at the bottom of the tank and running up both sides. I also split it off for the refugium too.

1.25" cost a little more, but more importantly to me, was harder to find all the parts I needed. 1" is readily available anywhere.

 

[ram1500]

It's alive.... and running. Now I need some advise on how to tune it.

There's a tee for the refugium with a ball valve and a tee on the main return to the DT with a split to distribute water evenly on both sides of the tank.

Cut the power a few times and watched it come back and balance itself out pretty well, takes a few minutes.

Is there a sequence of steps I should follow to make sure I now how to tune it and what to look for? Much appreciated. I feel a huge sense of accomplishment.

So far the only thing I can't answer for is I think the center baffle isn't high enough. Seems like I can't get the water to stay below it and it overflows slightly. Kinda defeats the purpose of the bubble trap. Maybe I need to move it up or it will work itself out with tuning. The center baffle is 1.5" higher than the two baffles fore and aft.

The only noise you hear is the water splashing back on the surface in the DT. Should I extend the pipe so it drains below the surface? Not sure if that will create a siphon issue.

Thanks
Gus

 

[dlp211]

@ram1500,

I would just through a 90 elbow just below the water surface. You will get a small back flow in a power outage but you just mark your sump to stay below a certain level to handle it.

Also, and this is just from what I have read about plumbing, but everyone is putting the Tee on wrong on their returns. It should be plumbed so that the pipe goes through it and you tee off of the branch. This reduces back pressure on the pump. Also using two 45 degree elbows adds more restriction then a single 90 degree elbows.

 

[ram1500]

So far so good..... I"m amazed.. Set and forget is absolutely true. Been cycling the power randomly just to see it go through its paces. Only takes a few minutes for the system to balance itself. Water level in the overflow rises and lowers, cycles, about 4 times before finding it's level. The mag9.5 is full throttle to the DT and the valve to the refugium is 1/4 closed leaving a gentle overflow to the return section. Water level seems to be just below the center baffle on the skimmer side so I know it's all going through the bubble trap. I could probably get away but going to recut another panel and make it taller.

Just a few more things including getting a new skimmer and I'll be ready to move it upstairs...

Thanks
Gus

 

[BeanAnimal]

Glad ot hear it is all working and your are happy Gus!

 

[ram1500]

A few observations:

Humming sound from pump resonating through system. Pump is slightly suspended, not touching glass. PVC not touching anything either but the humming sound of the pump is throughout. Not sure how it's going to sound when up in the living room

A lot of air bubbles coming out of the main syphon drain. Also some on the open channel. Is this indicative of an air leak.

Thanks
Gus

 

[rayn]

If the pump is suspended che k your plumbing. I has that when the plumbing was laying on the sump. Put a mouse pad or something under it to dampen it. Some air bubbles may be normal on startup, mine do but go away as the system stabilizes.

 

[phi delt reefer]

Hey guys - got by bean animal overflow setup and I am still getting some "draining"/"running water" noise out of the open channel.

some fyi points;

3/4" plumbing for full siphon channel with gate valve
3/4" plumbing for open channel with ball valve
1" plumbing for emergency channel with ball vavle
EHEIM 1250 return pump that is probably pushing 200-250gph after head loss (rated for 317gph with no head).

I re-read bean's instructions a few times and here are my concerns/observations to hopefully get some help in troubleshooting...

1. siphon channel is pretty much 85% closed (15% open) in order to get the water level high enough to "flood" the first standpipe so it creates the siphon. Bean had stated his was only 30% open in his system so i assume its not an issue. This is the only way i can get it so i get no bubbles in the sump from this stand pipe. Any more open and it cavitates and the pvc starts shaking and getting noisy.

2. open channel - i am having the most trouble here. No matter how low or high i get the water in the overflow box (by adjusting the gate valve on the full siphon) this channel is noisy. At its worst it starts to gurgle - at its best it has it make a running water noise and has produces a few bubbles in the sump every so often. It does get quiet for a second then it goes back to making its draining/running water noise. I tried fiddling with the ball valve on this channel to see if i could tune it but it didnt seem to help much. I have a hole drilled in the top of the elbow to help the channel breathe but its not making a difference. I tried putting some airline hosing down the channel to see if that would help but it didnt do much either.

I know the system should sort of self tune but i can only get it kind of quiet at VERY specific setting. I am hoping to also get all the sump bubbles to stop for i am starting to see some salt creep.

3. I was messing with the valves and I noticed at full open the full siphon channel could pretty much handle all of the flow for the tank. It wouldn't even get to full siphon unless i really dialed back the channel.
Is possible that my system is just turning over too slowly for the bean animal system to work? I know it should work on low flow system but how low is low?
Is there a point where the flow just isnt sufficient enough to overcome the air in the open channel?

i filmed the system in action on my camera but the file is like 170mb and is a avchd file? anyone know how to convert it into something that i can share with the forum?

Thank you all in advance for your assistance;

Vince

LEFT (open channel)/RIGHT (full siphon) (no water in tank yet)

system running but full siphon was not created yet

its not this bubbly - i have tuned it so the full siphon creates no bubbles but the open channel does bubble every so often

 

[BeanAnimal]

3/4" is very small for the open channel, regardless of the flow. Water falling down the narrow pipe will want to bridge the diameter and create suction (and noise).

 

[phi delt reefer]

3/4" is very small for the open channel, regardless of the flow. Water falling down the narrow pipe will want to bridge the diameter and create suction (and noise).

should i convert the 1" emergency to the open channel? Is there an issue possibly with how i have the elbows setup and the "breather holes"?

thanks for responding Beananimal - much appreciated