Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[darb85]

for a twenty long with c2c overflow, should i run 3 1inch lines or would i get away with 3/4?

 

[Barfly]

Hello,

Thanks so much for the informative thread. Please forgive me if this was already answered. I found a couple references and think this will work but just wanted to run this by everyone.

From my understanding, dual overflows can be adapted to this but a single overflow is best. I am planning for about 2000 GPH through the overflow in a 270. Thinking of a single 30 x 6 overflow with 3 1.5" bulkheads. I believe the original design was with 1" bulkheads with 1.5" plumbing. The complicating factors are that I'm running a wavebox and mp60 for flow, which may change water height up to 2" at any given point. I think the BeanAnimal overflow's ability to handle different water levels and "self adapt", this should be okay but just wanted to make sure since the tank is still in the design phase.

Thanks in advance.

You will definitely want to use a single overflow, not two. Depending on the head height of the drains, 1.5" is more than enough and you might easily get away with 1". Here is a link to an article on Bean's homepage that also has a calculator that will help you determine what pipe size you really need.

http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx

 

[Barfly]

for a twenty long with c2c overflow, should i run 3 1inch lines or would i get away with 3/4?

I would stick with the 1". Easier to keep the open channel quiet and working properly.

 

[roni]

You will definitely want to use a single overflow, not two. Depending on the head height of the drains, 1.5" is more than enough and you might easily get away with 1". Here is a link to an article on Bean's homepage that also has a calculator that will help you determine what pipe size you really need.

http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx

thanks, that's the article I was looking for.

 

[JWan]

Great thread and interesting design. I've honestly never had a problem with noise on my dual durso setup, but I've got lots of noise in my sump from my refugium dripping into the skimmer section (I really ought to fix that).

I'm thinking of replacing my current system and ordering a custom tank similar to the DSA Neo 185 using a 3 or 4 foot overflow box, but I don't quite understand how to properly design the internal overflow box. I read through the first 60 pages or so but didn't see a specific way to go about designing this.

As I understand it, as long as you make the depth of the internal overflow box big enough to fit the bulkheads and elbows used for the 3 standpipes, you should be in good shape in terms of getting all the drains setup. Seems straightforward enough. The thing I don't understand is how to calculate the height of the internal overflow so that the water level stays below the rim of the tank and won't overflow on startup. I plan on using 4 Tunze PHs with the wavemaker settings on a Tunze 7096 (it looks cool! ), if that affects the safety margin I need to give myself.

Also, it just occurred to me that the euro-bracing might make things a lot harder on initial setup. Any suggested solutions there?

 

[crossleymarko]

i started another thread asking this as i thought this one was closed, and bean animal pointed me in the right direction, thanks

the parts list bean has put on there states a 1" (25mm) bulkhead fitting, here in the uk we can only get 21.5mm overflow bulkheads. converted to 32mm (1 1/4") as bean has done. well he has used 1.5" (40mm) or should i just go with 1 1/4" or 1.1/2" straight through.

also bean has said to include details of my pump for my 140 gal play tank,
it is hailea hx6840 5000 ltrs hr (1099 uk gal roughly 1300 gal us) from top of pipes to top of 55 gal sump will be 5ft.

hope this helps


thanks

 

[crossleymarko]

noone on this thread.... please advise

 

[BeanAnimal]

so bean were does the plumbing go to, do all 3 join into 1 outlet or are they all seperate. i have looked and cant find anything. what is the full plumbing diagram please

thanks

They all terminate in the input section of the sump. They do not combine, if they did, they would interact and create stability problems.

 

[BeanAnimal]

for a twenty long with c2c overflow, should i run 3 1inch lines or would i get away with 3/4?

That all depends on the prosed flow.

 

[matiLanza]

the bigger the pipe the less friction= less noise

 

[BeanAnimal]

The thing I don't understand is how to calculate the height of the internal overflow so that the water level stays below the rim of the tank and won't overflow on startup.

The emergency standpipe will kick in if needed. The whole idea of the system is that under no reasonable (and most unreasonable) circumstances will the display overflow.

Set the weir height to the bottom of the trim so that even when the return pump is off, the water line is hidden.

I plan on using 4 Tunze PHs with the wavemaker settings on a Tunze 7096 (it looks cool! ), if that affects the safety margin I need to give myself.

Depending on how much sloshing you have, a second open channel at a slight higher set point may help to keep the system in balance (more below)

Also, it just occurred to me that the euro-bracing might make things a lot harder on initial setup. Any suggested solutions there?

Yes, that can be an issue and a reason to run an external overflow box. The exernal box with the pipes through the bottom allows height adjustment of the intakes as well.

 

[BeanAnimal]

i started another thread asking this as i thought this one was closed, and bean animal pointed me in the right direction, thanks

the parts list bean has put on there states a 1" (25mm) bulkhead fitting, here in the uk we can only get 21.5mm overflow bulkheads. converted to 32mm (1 1/4") as bean has done. well he has used 1.5" (40mm) or should i just go with 1 1/4" or 1.1/2" straight through.

also bean has said to include details of my pump for my 140 gal play tank,
it is hailea hx6840 5000 ltrs hr (1099 uk gal roughly 1300 gal us) from top of pipes to top of 55 gal sump will be 5ft.

hope this helps


thanks

You will likely be fine with the slightly smaller bulkheads: I don't have time at the moment, but if you plug the inside diameter of the bulkheads and head into the calculator you will get an idea if what they system is capable of.
http://beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx

If you can, stepping up a size in bulkheads will certainly not hurt, even if you can just do one of them instead of all three. It will offer some flexibility.

 

[crossleymarko]

You will likely be fine with the slightly smaller bulkheads: I don't have time at the moment, but if you plug the inside diameter of the bulkheads and head into the calculator you will get an idea if what they system is capable of.
http://beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx

If you can, stepping up a size in bulkheads will certainly not hurt, even if you can just do one of them instead of all three. It will offer some flexibility.

heres what i get.

sub discharged.
head 48 inch
diameter 0.85" (21.5)
1703.23 gph



is this acceptable for my 1300 gph pump. @ 4mtrs
i dont get how the calc works


thanks

 

[crossleymarko]

so how would i line the holes up say i was to have full siphon and partial siphon at 21.5mm and emergency at 32mm.

thanks

 

[roni]

The emergency standpipe will kick in if needed. The whole idea of the system is that under no reasonable (and most unreasonable) circumstances will the display overflow.

Set the weir height to the bottom of the trim so that even when the return pump is off, the water line is hidden.

Depending on how much sloshing you have, a second open channel at a slight higher set point may help to keep the system in balance (more below)

Yes, that can be an issue and a reason to run an external overflow box. The exernal box with the pipes through the bottom allows height adjustment of the intakes as well.

Had a quick question about this. Planning my system right now and the plan had been to have 3 1.5" drains on my system with the weir height such that standard water level would be 3" from the top since with a combination of wavebox and MP60, there may occasionally be a wave as high as 2". This is a rimless tank so don't want water sloshing over the side. Are you saying that by using a 2nd open channel I could possibly raise the height of the weirs so that the water level is a little higher?

 

[crossleymarko]

hey bean just thought, if the water is comming in at 1" then converts to 1.5" and the ball valve tunes it in. why is there no noise after the ball valve. i see it as your tuning back the 1.5" to 1".... hope you understand what im saying

 

[crossleymarko]

not many people monitor here i take it. is there a more responsive forum were i can get some info please..

thanks

 

[crossleymarko]

not many people monitor here i take it. is there a more responsive forum were i can get some info please..

thanks

 

[TheFishMan65]

Well I will take a stab. This is what I think so here goes.

Noise is caused by the mixture of air and water. Either by itself is silent. So once you get all the air out of the siphon line it does not matter if you go to a larger pipe, up and down hills, around a corner - there is no air so no noise. If you let air in then you will have noise - the whole reason you can't tie all three drains together.

Hope this helps.

 

[Barfly]

Had a quick question about this. Planning my system right now and the plan had been to have 3 1.5" drains on my system with the weir height such that standard water level would be 3" from the top since with a combination of wavebox and MP60, there may occasionally be a wave as high as 2". This is a rimless tank so don't want water sloshing over the side. Are you saying that by using a 2nd open channel I could possibly raise the height of the weirs so that the water level is a little higher?

The problem with a wave on this system is if the wave is big enough, there will be a certain amount of time that no or little water is entering the overflow box while the siphon channel continues to drain the box. With 2 open channels (one slightly higher than the other), it may be possible to adjust the siphon channel so It does not drain the box during the wave action.

Hope that answers your question.