Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Enthusiastic]

Thank you Beananimal and Uncleof6 for taking time to answer questions.

Unfortunately I was believing the tank specialist as the professional. Now I'll tell him what to do.
Concerning the overflow I understand that it is MUST for quick proteins removal which tend to bind to surface and for good light penetration to the tank.

But as I understand for good surface skimming one of two things required - long calfo overflow or good surface agitation. I plan to direct nozzles from the return line a little upwards to agitate the surface. Given I have two pumps for the return - Eheim 1262 (900gph) and Atman (1300) by the way is it enough for 170g tank and 40g sump or I need more?

If surface agitation is not enough for good reef keeping (I plan to achieve) I can put a calfo style overflow at the space left besides old overflow - about 10". Then I will have pipe coming from the side of the tank to calfo and I think to use this one
as an pen channel.

Concerning the hole in the bottom of the old overflow. Is it possible to use it as the siphon considering that :
1 the siphon pipe will be 2,5" (I guess it will be hard to control it?)or
2 it will be 1,5" pipe connecting with the 2,5" bulkhead. As I read at this thread it will give noise when the water falls from narrow pipe to the wider one which is not the point of this system.

 

[Enthusiastic]

Thank you Beananimal and Uncleof6 for taking time to answer questions.

Unfortunately I was believing the tank specialist as the professional. Now I'll tell him what to do.
Concerning the overflow I understand that it is MUST for quick proteins removal which tend to bind to surface and for good light penetration to the tank.

But as I understand for good surface skimming one of two things required - long calfo overflow or good surface agitation. I plan to direct nozzles from the return line a little upwards to agitate the surface. Given I have two pumps for the return - Eheim 1262 (900gph) and Atman (1300) by the way is it enough for 170g tank and 40g sump or I need more?

If surface agitation is not enough for good reef keeping (I plan to achieve) I can put a calfo style overflow at the space left besides old overflow - about 10". Then I will have pipe coming from the side of the tank to calfo and I think to use this one
as an pen channel.

Concerning the hole in the bottom of the old overflow. Is it possible to use it as the siphon considering that :
1 the siphon pipe will be 2,5" (I guess it will be hard to control it?)or
2 it will be 1,5" pipe connecting with the 2,5" bulkhead. As I read at this thread it will give noise when the water falls from narrow pipe to the wider one which is not the point of this system.

 

[ram1500]

back to basics.. Once thing I never figured out was should the open channel air line be set below or above the emergency drain? Mine has been set just below the top of the upturned elbow. Does it matter?

Thanks
Gus

 

[BeanAnimal]

If you set it below, then it will kick in as needed and keep the dry emergency a dry emergency and startup fail-safe.

To avoid confusion:

I should also add that it will work the other way (set above the emergency standpipe intake) and that is how the origianl plans were developed. My suggestion is to try it both ways and see what works best for you during startup. The reason (at least one of them) I set it ABOVE the emergency standpipe is because once the fail-safe hose (airline) is filled with water, it takes a bit of time to stop gurgling.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Enthusiastic,

Surface agitation mixes the bound nutrients back into the water column, where they can be consumed by nuisance algae, etc. It takes a very significant amount of agitation to prevent surface scum in a reef tank that has no surface skimming component.

 

[uncleof6]

Thank you Beananimal and Uncleof6 for taking time to answer questions.

Unfortunately I was believing the tank specialist as the professional. Now I'll tell him what to do.
Concerning the overflow I understand that it is MUST for quick proteins removal which tend to bind to surface and for good light penetration to the tank.

But as I understand for good surface skimming one of two things required - long calfo overflow or good surface agitation. I plan to direct nozzles from the return line a little upwards to agitate the surface. Given I have two pumps for the return - Eheim 1262 (900gph) and Atman (1300) by the way is it enough for 170g tank and 40g sump or I need more?

If surface agitation is not enough for good reef keeping (I plan to achieve) I can put a calfo style overflow at the space left besides old overflow - about 10". Then I will have pipe coming from the side of the tank to calfo and I think to use this one
as an pen channel.

Concerning the hole in the bottom of the old overflow. Is it possible to use it as the siphon considering that :
1 the siphon pipe will be 2,5" (I guess it will be hard to control it?)or
2 it will be 1,5" pipe connecting with the 2,5" bulkhead. As I read at this thread it will give noise when the water falls from narrow pipe to the wider one which is not the point of this system.

The two concepts, surface skimming and surface agitation are related, however, they serve different functions-- and both are needed for a marine system.

The longer the length of the overflow, the more efficient the surface skimming, or the faster the organic "film" is removed. The full length overflow or "coast to coast" championed by Calfo, is the best design, at this time.

Although the organic "film" at the surface, does hinder light penetration, it is hardly significant enough to be of concern. This film, on the other hand, does hinder gas exchange, and this is significant.

Swift removal of the surface organic "film" gets the organics to were they can be processed, and eliminates this hindrance to "gas exchange." meaning carbon dioxide out, and oxygen in.

Surface agitation, does not remove the organic film at the surface, and surface SKIMMING is the only way to "remove" it. The surface agitation does create surface currents, which aids in moving the surface "film" to facilitate skimming. Surface agitation, does however, remove the other hindrance to gas exchange: it breaks up the surface tension of the water, facilitating the movement of oxygen into the water, and carbon dioxide out of the water.

If you are going to do a coast to coast overflow, you may wish to proceed differently, than you would with the corner overflows, and the bottom bulkheads, may not be the best solution. Just for info, with your target flow rate, a 1" siphon line, 1.25" open channel, and a 1" dry emergency will be sufficient.

 

[Enthusiastic]

Ok. I got it. I guess 10" surface overflow will not be enough? What length would you suggest?

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[Enthusiastic]

And considering that I will connect calfo overflow with my old corner overflow. What for is better to use that bottom bulkhead?
Thanks for advice.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[Enthusiastic]

The reason I want pipes on the side of the tank is that back and front glasses are tempered. So back calfo overflow will flow in to the corner overflow and the same will do the side one.

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[erptacmt]

I'm planning a 120 gallon Reef tank with a C2C overflow. My question is what would the dimensions be for the box, h x w? Should I go with 1" or 1.5" drains. Can the 3 drains be spaced out along the whole overflow box or do they need to be close together. Thanks for your help.

 

[uncleof6]

I'm planning a 120 gallon Reef tank with a C2C overflow. My question is what would the dimensions be for the box, h x w? Should I go with 1" or 1.5" drains. Can the 3 drains be spaced out along the whole overflow box or do they need to be close together. Thanks for your help.

1) The standpipes can be any where in the overflow, as long as the tank is dead level.

2) Pipe size depends on the flow rate.

3) http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19609419&postcount=4086

 

[erptacmt]

Uncleof6, I have 2 pumps to use on return. Reeflo blowhole 1100 and 1450. About 1000 gph and 1300gph on high setting. I was thinking of using the 1100 for return and 1450 for a closed loop. So based on that what size drains should I use. I'm in Temecula, not a lot of choices for lfs, any good store in San Diego. Thanks

 

[uncleof6]

1" siphon, 1.25" (or 1.5") open channel, 1" emergency drain. As for LFS, <shrugs> the bread and butter of the LFS is freshwater, not salt. For equipment I would suggest Custom Aquatic in Oceanside (online, with warehouse in Oceanside--call in order for will call) Aquatic Warehouse in San Diego is not bad, has critters, some lower end lighting, PLUMBING PARTS! lol sometimes including 1.5" sanitary tees...... I heard that Pet Kingdom in San Diego, near the Sports Arena was alright, but I was not all that impressed-- too diversified. The choice of LFS places is very limited, heck there isn't any money in it. You would think the opposite is true, however, the aquarium persuit has a very limited clientele.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I have been running my BA system (not really mine, a customer's, but anyways) for a few weeks now. I set it up and 'tuned' it, for the most part, right after adding all the rock, fish, and corals. I noticed today that the water level in the overflow box has dropped about 1" or so, such that the OC is dry, where it used to be about 1/2 way up the elbow. I had to crack open the pump a little and close the siphon valve a little.

Is there a break-in period on a new system in general where the pipes will 'slime up' as I call it, and cause a slight decrease in friction, allowing a slightly increased flow rate? Also, the temp went from around 76 F to around 79 F (after adding lights, an additional pump, etc). I'm wondering if the two in combination might have caused this.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Floyd, it can be a combination of many things, but certainly the biological film inside the pipes, valves and pumps can have a net effect on friction and therefore effect the flow.

 

[antbreon]

works beautifully...:beer: thank you for sharing..you are making tanks quiet all over the world...now i just need to get my doors made..

 

[ReefTeacher]

I am designing a sump for a 180 gal penisula tank. The BA overflow will have to be on the short side. My question is about horizontal runs: it would be most convenient to have the electrical compartment closest to the wall...but this would mean a horizontal run for about 18-24 inches. With 1300-1500 gal/hr flow is this a bad idea? I could switch the 2 compartments, but this would mean running an electrical feed over the sump for about a 4 foot run. What is the best solution?

 

[ReefTeacher]

I am designing a sump for a 180 gal penisula tank. The BA overflow will have to be on the short side. My question is about horizontal runs: it would be most convenient to have the electrical compartment closest to the wall...but this would mean a horizontal run for about 18-24 inches. With 1300-1500 gal/hr flow is this a bad idea? I could switch the 2 compartments, but this would mean running an electrical feed over the sump for about a 4 foot run. What is the best solution?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I guess I'm not understanding your dilemma. There's no issue with running electrical over a sump. Any exposed wire/romex should be in conduit up to an outlet box anyways. Is the horizontal run you're talking about the electrical or the plumbing? If it's the plumbing, I would say try to avoid the horizontal run if you can. It wouldn't be the end of the world if you can't avoid it though, just not ideal. You might have trouble getting the siphon to purge quickly with a long horizontal run, not sure if 18-24" is considered long.

 

[uncleof6]

For electrical safety, you cannot run Romex in a conduit, it is a violation of the NEC, and is a fire hazard--temperature related. Of course, there are things you can do with a plug connected appliance (an aquarium) that violate the NEC. I only point this out, because the regulations exist for your safety

If you must run electrical wiring over a sump, it is fine, as Floyd pointed out, just run it in either PVC rigid conduit or liquid tight non metallic flexible electrical tubing, Seal Tite or I-Flex or similar, and non metallic liquid-tight fittings and connectors. Run individual conductors, and ground. You can use Romex, just strip off the outer jacket, and use the individual conductors and ground. If you have to run cords, over a sump, i strongly recommend changing out the cheap cords that come with some equipment and use Type SOW cord (600V) which is water resistant, SJOW (300V) would be fine too, if not for lighting output. Variants that would be fine would be SOOW and SJOOW. Oh you can't (shouldn't in an appliance.......) run a cord through conduit either.

As for the horizontal run for the drain lines, the drains will work better, by how much is debatable , straight down; and if less than ideal circumstances exist, keeping it generally at a downward angle, rather than horizontal, will still work well. e.g. using 45's rather than 90's.