Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[hhaase]

T: Great link there! Looking at the stuff on that site, it will definitely suit what I wanted to do. The PEX idea is out the window for the overflow for sure.

Jim: I totally agree, I was planning on any valve manifolds being hard mounted on a backing board in order to give them the needed support as well as making the whole install look cleaner.

-Hans

 

[teesquare]

Jim:
Given....
One has to consider adequate support. But - that should apply no matter what the choice of plumbing materials are.
T

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14806905#post14806905 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
Jim:
Given....
One has to consider adequate support. But - that should apply no matter what the choice of plumbing materials are.
T

Well ok if ye wishin to be technical about it....I don't think of everything in one shot..... wonderin what that would be called.....

Jim

 

[teesquare]

???
All I am saying is that if a hobbyist is savy enough to understand this method of overflow, and closed loops, lighting, etc - then I would hope that same hobbyist would understand that the weight of the water in the piping - regardless of the type of piping used - is enough consideration that it should be supported, or strapped well enough to prevent stress related failure of the plumbing - or of the tank - if the weight suspended is enough to cause an OH SH#$!!!! moment.
Technical? - nope....just pragmatic.
Hope that ,splains my earlier comment Unc.

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14807518#post14807518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
???
All I am saying is that if a hobbyist is savy enough to understand this method of overflow, and closed loops, lighting, etc - then I would hope that same hobbyist would understand that the weight of the water in the piping - regardless of the type of piping used - is enough consideration that it should be supported, or strapped well enough to prevent stress related failure of the plumbing - or of the tank - if the weight suspended is enough to cause an OH SH#$!!!! moment.
Technical? - nope....just pragmatic.
Hope that ,splains my earlier comment Unc.

I ain't a hobbyist though, I ain't that smart........

Jim

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14671147#post14671147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gieser
My overflows will be external and will drain from the bottom. There won't be any holes in the back of the box like so many of the people have done here for standpipes, etc. Is it still possible to create a "herbie" or silent set up with the drain holes in the bottom of the overflow and not in the back?

Yes both methods will work with an external box with the standpipes coming up through the bottom of the box.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14701216#post14701216 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
Bean, you mentioned that this system would work for a lower flowing set up. Would you recommend your design for a system that has a flow in the 600-800 gph range? I have a 75 gallon tank and soon to be 35 gallon sump.

It will work just fine for a system in that flow range and size.

I had read a few threads where people had mentioned that they had nothing coming through their second pipe. Perhaps their systems were not tweaked appropriately.

Many people have not adhered to teh basic design principles and have tried to build a better mousetrap... in most of those cases the system does not function as designed

Wondering what the minimum flow would be for this set up to be successful.

In theory, any flow. It is a siphon and can be silently tuned down to a trickle if needed

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14701310#post14701310 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
Also,

Is there a consensus on what the best way to brace all the plumbing behind the tank is?

There is no "best" way but it needs to be braced.... all plumbing should be supported. The simple brackets I show in my renderings are very easy to build. Velcro type straps are cheap to build and easy to implement. AquaticEcoSystems and Savko both sell plastic and SS pipe clamps and bracing structures as well.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14703843#post14703843 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vair
So I reread the thread... that's alot of work! Bean I must say your a patient guy, answer the same, again and again.... read the thread people.

"threads" are not condicive to quick learning... the same information gets burried over and over. It is frustrating and partly why I put the project on my website... www.beananimal.com

Never really found my answer of feeding my skimmer directly so I guess I'll just try it, tough to experiment on changes with 350g display tank and change and reroute, I'll just build in another pump bulk head into my sump in case I have to pump supply my skimmer.

Yup.. each setup is different and results are going to vary greatly. I hope you can get things balanced and working with the direct feed skimmer.

The reason I think it may not work is people seem to have issues when the drain is submerged to far in the sump.Feeding the skimmer direct will cause the same if not more back pressure? So I don't know? That is why I asked if anyone is having success feeding a large skimmer directly? Enough babble...

Exactly... the feedback is going to be hard to account for and control... each setup is going to be very different.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14704357#post14704357 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
The people having the most problems with this design, just can't seem to get it "dialed in," think it does not work--cause they cannot get it to work, is usually because they have modded the design, tried to build a better mousetrap, tried to save a buck or two, what have you. This system works as designed. Any (maybe that needs qualifying) modifications, are at some point likely to cause a problem.

Exactly!

Skimmers are finicky all on their own, and adding this variable to this drain design seems a bit ridiculous if you ask me. By nature, we all like to tinker with things. But messing with the drain system of a 350gal is beyond tinkering.

It is a matter of perspective... but the basic principle of adding the skimemr directly to the overflow is a great idea (Anthony Calfo is one who advocates this method). As you figured out, adding the skimmer directly to this system can add a lot of feedback that is hard to predict or adjust for.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14705751#post14705751 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jjk_reef00
Question: I am going to use this setup for a new tank and am new to pluming. How do people typically connect the pvc to the bulkhead? PVC glue / or teflon tape with the thread?

If you glue it can the bulkhead ever be removed and used again?

My concern is the siphon must be a strong seal. Glue seems better, however I would like to be able to remove the bulkhead and reuse it (I'll be moving in a year).

I prefer SLIP style fittings and bulkheads. Threaded PVC is not well made and can be very hard to seal. If you DO use threaded PVC, then teflon paste is almost always the best bet. Using teflon tape can be a hit or miss ordeal and most people do not apply the product correctly, making matters even worse. Most folks use too much tape and severely overtighten the fitting.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14724313#post14724313 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSpiffy
What size drains would you recommend on a 65G tank? I was thinking 3/4" would be okay, but figured I'd ask. Flow would only be 300-400GPH max.

Also, what's your take on this design versus, say, the Hofer Gurgle Buster design?

Thanks!

You may be able to use 3/4" fitting and standpipes for that flow range. I have not setup a system with that size plumbing, so I can not make a firm statement about the capacity. A "hofer" is just another way of building a "Stockman" or "Durso". If you read the article on my website, I explain them. In a nutshell, they are only quiet under a very narrow set of circumstances.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14761837#post14761837 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stormrider27
Wow what a great read! My hat is off to Bean for his knowledge, patience and most of all for being so unselfish with his time by answering everyone's questions! Now, of course, I also have a question for the group. I want to keep the top center of the back of my tank clear of plumbing so would there be any issues with running two narrow internal weirs on opposite ends of the back wall of the tank and piping the water down to one external overflow box that is roughly 12-15" below the water line?

Thanks,
Mark

That should work Mark. However, do keep in mind that the "narrow" channels will have higher velocity and could be noisy where the transition into the vertical drop to the external box. Also Keep in mind that the smaller the overall vertical head, the less capacity the siphon will have.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14766378#post14766378 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bnmir
I'm having a little trouble with the down-elbow siphon line not starting up reliable. sometimes the level rises until the open vented line starts up instead. It's like the siphone line is vapor locked with air trapped.
The discharge of the lines are below water in the sump, which I believe is correct. Anyone experienced this? Suggestions?

Your siphon is submerged too deep into the sump. Shorten it, or drill a few small vent holes near the waterline in the sump. Another option would have been to raise the open channel bulkhead by 1/2" or so.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14770282#post14770282 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSpiffy
Bean,

Any thoughts on this setup? It's going to be basically what you posted initially, but I was thinking of spreading the drains apart. Is it best to keep the drains together? Or would this be fine? It's a 65-gallon, btw.

It will be fine

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14780423#post14780423 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
Also, I hear some people say that they have a hard time getting the siphon line going usually due to air trapped in the pipe. Would anyone recommend drilling this siphon drain hole a little lower than the vented open drain and the emergency drain? If so, how much lower?

You can raise the open channel bulkhead by 1/2" or so to force the siphon to start. Also a small vent hole or two can be drilled at the sump's water line to allow air to escape the siphon standpipe.



Thanks again. [/B][/QUOTE]

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14781366#post14781366 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Taqpol
Hey Bean, I'm going to be installing your overflow system on a 120g over this weekend. I found most of the parts I need at the local home depot, but I could not find a 1.5" sanitary tee or the 1.5"x1" Street elbow. I looked at www.savko.com but their site confuses me and I couldn't tell if they had what i needed or not. Where would you go about getting these parts, or could you tell me how to find them on savko's web site?

I answered that a few pages bag for the "chic" that posted (sorry.. to lazy to go look at her username"). Plenty of online stores carry the parts, as should your local plumbing supply.

 

[teesquare]

I ain't a hobbyist though, I ain't that smart........

Jim


It's o.k Jim.......We are here for you..............and so are the meds <GGGG>!!!!!
T

 

[jb61264]

Sorry if this has question has come up in this thread already...I have a 75 gallon tank that I'm going to be installing this overflow system on...regarding the actual overflow box...if going coast to coast, could this just not be made of a piece of acrylic that is bent/folded to the right height/width dimension versus two pieces of glass? My tank is glass but really, would it make that much difference in the little amount that actually is being siliconed to the ends of the c-2-c design to be able to just use a piece of bent acrylic?...my background is going to be black and I think being able to use a black piece of acrylic would be great for this unless there are reason why this may not be a good idea....maybe its already being done and I've just missed it (tried to read as much of thread as I could)

 

[jeffrey_ropp]

Hi Bean (or anyone else with an answer)....

For some reason I can't get my system to start up automatically. In order for the system to reach equilibrium, I have to open the cap on the siphon channel for a couple seconds. If I don't the open channel keeps oscillating between a siphon and open channel.

Any thoughts?

Thanks as always,