Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[uncleof6]

All things are possible, but the results may not be what you would want. Best results are achieved with unmodified systems. This drain method works as designed. Change that, and the results may vary. Three ways of saying the same thing. This has come up several times in this thread. This adds another variable, that could affect tuning of the drain system. Would it work? I am not sure anyone has tried it. People having the most problems with this design generally have modified it. A fourth way of saying it. At some point, i think, someone is going to try it. If you do try it, let us know how well it works.

Regards,

Jim

 

[Salt_in_MyBlood]

hey guys, it did work running it into the skimmer. i just have trouble getting the siphon to start without taking the cap off to bleed the air. i am only running 3/4", i am thinking that is why. i am planning on tapping the cap and threading a ball valve into it to vent it easier.

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14969075#post14969075 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Salt_in_MyBlood
hey guys, it did work running it into the skimmer. i just have trouble getting the siphon to start without taking the cap off to bleed the air. i am only running 3/4", i am thinking that is why. i am planning on tapping the cap and threading a ball valve into it to vent it easier.

To me, that would mean that it does not work as planned. There should be no reason to pull the cap to get the siphon to start, or otherwise bleed the air. If the siphon needs to be manually restarted after a power out, and nobody is there to "bleed the brakes" you are gunna have some trouble. Sounds like there is too much back pressure on the siphon. (caused by the skimmer) Reassemble the system as it is designed, with lines not more than 1" below water level in sump, and all three at the same depth, and get familiar with the operating characteristics, before throwing a monkey in the wrench with the skimmer. If it works properly, you will quickly see why it does not work with the skimmer inline. 5th way to say the same thing.

Regards,

Jim

 

[teesquare]

Jim:
You can find more good ways to explain things than anyone I know! Excellent job!
T

 

[OkR33Fer]

My turn to ask a question. How about the spacing between the 3 pipes, can they be spread across the width of a tank?I am looking to implement this on an 8ft tank that already has 2 holes drilled on the back side of the tank. The plan is to build a box (6ft wide) and add a 3rd hole between the other two for the siphon. It seems to me this should work as normal but I know it won't hurt to ask.

 

[jb61264]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14974361#post14974361 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OkR33Fer
My turn to ask a question. How about the spacing between the 3 pipes, can they be spread across the width of a tank?I am looking to implement this on an 8ft tank that already has 2 holes drilled on the back side of the tank. The plan is to build a box (6ft wide) and add a 3rd hole between the other two for the siphon. It seems to me this should work as normal but I know it won't hurt to ask.

I have seen implementations of this where the three standpipes are spread out along the width of the overflow box and heard that it will not affect the performance. I think the minimum spacing is more important because you have to have your holes spaced at least the diameter of the bulkhead hole away from the next.

 

[gem]

Well, I finally got my tank up and running and tuned with this design. WOW! I'm truly impressed. Great flow and dead silent!!!!!
One problem though. I am getting some micro bubbles from the open channel. What can I do about this? Or is this normal?

 

[BeanAnimal]

It depends on the amount of flow moving through the open channel. More flow = more bubbles and possible noise. A small amount of bubbles is common. Compared to a traditional setup, the bubbles are insignificant.

 

[teesquare]

If the bubbles are problem for you - can you put a sock on that pipe? Make sure that it is not restrictive to the flow. I have even seen folks use womens hose to make a sock that simply diffuses the bubbles.
It need not be fancy. Again - as long as it does not restrict the flow from the pipe.
T

 

[gem]

Thanks guys. It's not a tremendous amount of bubbles. Can't hear it at all unless the stand door is open and then it's very minimal fizzing.
I may try the sock thing. Or may just not even worry about it. The only reason I had any concern about it was I was thinking about putting my skimmer in that chamber. But may just put it on the return side and run a "set in" fuge there.
Thanks Bean for posting this whole thread. This set up is quite amazing and works great!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Welcome

BTW you can try to minimize the bubbles by reducing the flow in the open channel (slightly increasing siphon flow).

 

[gem]

Thanks Bean. I'll try that right now.

 

[polyped]

ideally... what plumbing parts would you glue and what would you use teflon paste for. I guess I could just glue everything and then cut and glue in a union if I needed to change anything.

threaded or non threaded gate / ball valves?

 

[BeanAnimal]

I use slip fittings and solvent for everything, including valves. Threaded PVC is a PITA. If you design the system well, then you should not need to take it apart and reconfigure it. Use unions where you need to gain access by disassembly.

 

[Shock130]

How small of a coast to coast overflow box can i make on a 50 gallon breeder and still use your overflow system Bean? Im trying to figure out how big i need to get the glass cut to make an overflow.

 

[ironwill723]

Hi Bean,
A couple questions for you, hope you can help. I have read the thread through a couple of times and would like to use your design. I have just purchased a new 120g perfecto tank with dimensions of 60x18x26 and a tempered glass bottom. I would like to drill for at least 1.5" bulkheads but I am having issues with designing a suitable overflow box due to where the tank will be placed for viewing. The tank will be viewable both from the living room side and a hallway that runs parallel to the tank's back wall.
A few photos to illustrate the ideas I have in mind.

Hallway:
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1kUqVCJJVCiz2a4V_zAJEQ?authkey=Gv1sRgCNGIitHStq-ElQE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_gYlUjvbQmnM/SgqPVE5tuII/AAAAAAAAAHo/_u6WP1wcoQA/s800/Fish%20Tank%202.jpg" /></a>

Front view will be similar to this design of stand, canopy, and shelving unit on both sides minus the trim work covering the left and right front corners of the tank.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/cLL7KKn2JBly30Coqpk_lw?authkey=Gv1sRgCNGIitHStq-ElQE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_gYlUjvbQmnM/SgqPWzP5FBI/AAAAAAAAAHs/VIpHq1V0qiQ/s800/20080806-FullTankShot.jpg" /></a>

I was hoping to make some sort of vertical overflow boxes in each corner that run either top to bottom of the tank or just float at the top.

My questions are:

I'm thinking of trying to do the holes and bulkheads from the side walls of the tank due to having the back panel as viewable. Would a triangle bulkhead configuration work inside my deeper side overflow box. I was thinking due to space that I could do Siphon and Durso on the bottom of the triangle and the emergency bulkhead as the top of my triangle of holes. Similar to a pyramid shape?


Or would it be possible to do some sort of vertical configuration drilling in the side of the tank where the siphon was placed at the bottom, durso in the middle, emergency at the top. All this of course could be placed in the typical corner overflow box design.

I am hoping to use the shelving units on the side to hide any plumbing or closed loop fixtures.

My last question is are 1.5" bulkheads necessary for my application? My sump will be located in the basement using a Mag 18 return pump. The plumbing will drop about 6' from the display tank into the floor, run about 10' horizontally through the basement ceiling, before making the final 6' foot drop into my 90g sump in the laundry room.

In summary I'm looking for the least obtrusive yet functional overflow I can design for this situation. I even thought about using a Calfo but I can only see using two bulkheads at each side panel end since I can not use the back panel for plumbing.

Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

~Craig

 

[BeanAnimal]

Stacked standpipes should work in either the vertical or pyramid configuration. I have some renderings of vertical configurations, but never took the time to post them, as I am fan of large surface skimmers. In your case, you do not have much choice.

The open channel may not work as expected due to the horizontal run. You may end up having to use "herbie" method (just a full siphon tuned to match the return pump, leaving the second standpipe dry). The "herbie" is not as safe, or self tuning, but many people use it with great success. You COULD still add the 3rd standpipe and get some redundancy out of the setup.

 

[ironwill723]

Bean-
As usual you are way ahead of the curve. If you could possibly post those vertical rendering you have I would be very grateful. Or PM. I will work on eliminating the long horizontal run in my drain design as well, but I would definitely like to utilize your design of three bulkheads just for safeties sake.

Also, do you recommend Spa flex or rigid pvc for longer drain runs and returns. From what I've read less 90s and 45s joints are desired. Will Spaflex facilitate better flow more than rigid over a longer run of plumbing?

 

[BeanAnimal]

I will see if I can find the renderings for the corner overflows. They were done quite a while back, but never posted to my website.

SpaFlex and rigid both have their places. In this case, either will work. I would not worry to much about the elbows, as the vertical drop will be sufficient to create a powerful siphon. Rigid is (in many cases) easier to work with and support. Upsizing the pipe diameter is also an easy way to avoid friction loss.

 

[Reefski's]

First off thank you for posting all your stuff. I just discovered your thread. It looks like just what I am looking for.


Let me give a little info about my setup to get your ideas before I cut any pipe

My display tank is 700 gallons with another 1,100 gallons or so in the combined sumps, tanks, and surges.

The overflow without any surge.

The surge with only the 40 gallon firing.


My overflows are really noisy, especially since I installed two surges over the tank. The surges are on one feed line and release about 60 gallons and 40 gallons in about 30 seconds into the tank. They sound louder in the video than they are but they are loud. The video is both of them firing at the same time which happens a couple of times an hour, mostly they are out of sync.

Both firing at the same time.


My overflows are all 2â€Â into the sumps and tanks in the garage under the display tank.