Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[MeuserReef]

With respects to downsizing, I can speak from personal experience that this design will work with 1" plumbing. I am using a MAG 12 as my return and have the siphon tube at about 1/3 restricted. I feel that I could still push more through this design.

 

[Reefer2727]

MeuserReef,

What size are your bulkheads?

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14845567#post14845567 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MeuserReef
With respects to downsizing, I can speak from personal experience that this design will work with 1" plumbing. I am using a MAG 12 as my return and have the siphon tube at about 1/3 restricted. I feel that I could still push more through this design.

I still think people are not getting what i am trying to say here: The system works with any pipe size. Size the pipe to your flow needs. One size in the system is ideal. (whatever size that is). Starting in the overflow with 1.5" heads, and reducing to 1" below the overflow does not make sense, as the 1" pipe will negate any benefit of the 1.5" head. Better off with 1" all the way. The open channel @ 1" is going to have a higher velocity at a given flow rate, and more turbulence at a given flow rate, than larger pipe, and may be more difficult to "silence," however the system will function with a 1" open channel. (or whatever the pipe size is for the system)

Jim

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14845634#post14845634 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
MeuserReef,

What size are your bulkheads?

Just FYI: The bulkhead size only impacts the system if it is smaller than the pipe size of the rest of the system. In other words, 1" pipe with 1" bulkhead will function just as efficiently as 1.5" pipe with 1.5" bulkhead. 1" pipe with 3/4" bulkhead will see a reduction. 1.5" bulkhead with 1" pipe, will not increase the flow, or reduce the flow. The pressure drop in the bulkhead could relate to turbulence, but it is momentary.

Jim

 

[jb61264]

None of the stores where I live (including Lowe's and Home Depot) carry bulkhead fittings or true union ball valves...where is the best place to order them online?

Is this the bulkhead I need if I'm wanting to run 1" pipe?
http://www.savko.com/partlist.asp?pgid=2 (part #501010)?
and I would need to drill a 1 3/4" hole in the tank for it?

 

[Rizup]

So, considering that I have 1" bulkheads in my internal overflow box, is there any reason to use 1.25" pipe inside the overflow? I am currently doing this with my Dursos (as his site suggests), but when I switch over to this method, should I just use 1" pipe? I will also be using 1" pipe to the sump.

I may end up running a second siphon, as I have four bulkheads in my overflow. Will everything else function the same if I do so? I am trying to determine the best use of my fourth bulkhead. I may use it as a split return (instead of the two bulkhead returns I currently use), but I am not sure if I will have enough room to split it to each side.

Lastly, since this is being done in an internal overflow box with hole on the bottom of the tank, do you feel that I need to have any dursos, or can I use straight pipes for the siphon and emergency drains? I could still use a durso or stockman style for the open channel. The straight pipes would make it easier for me to set the levels of each in the overflow box.

Thanks for the help. Hopefully I can give this a try soon.


Mike

 

[teesquare]

Jim:
Just a thought-
Earlier in the thread, someone chimed in about vortexing being a potential problem on the siphon due to intake velocity.
This was answered by Bean as why he used a larger elbow. This was said to decreas intake speed, and help prevent vortexing/sucking noises.

What have you found Jim?
T

 

[Rizup]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14846456#post14846456 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
Jim:
Just a thought-
Earlier in the thread, someone chimed in about vortexing being a potential problem on the siphon due to intake velocity.
This was answered by Bean as why he used a larger elbow. This was said to decreas intake speed, and help prevent vortexing/sucking noises.

What have you found Jim?
T

Ahh, good point. I will keep this in mind with my setup. I suppose I could either keep the siphon pipe(s) lower in the overflow box, or go with a durso, etc.

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14846174#post14846174 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jb61264
None of the stores where I live (including Lowe's and Home Depot) carry bulkhead fittings or true union ball valves...where is the best place to order them online?

Is this the bulkhead I need if I'm wanting to run 1" pipe?
http://www.savko.com/partlist.asp?pgid=2 (part #501010)?
and I would need to drill a 1 3/4" hole in the tank for it?

Yes.

Jim

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14846456#post14846456 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
Jim:
Just a thought-
Earlier in the thread, someone chimed in about vortexing being a potential problem on the siphon due to intake velocity.
This was answered by Bean as why he used a larger elbow. This was said to decreas intake speed, and help prevent vortexing/sucking noises.

What have you found Jim?
T

A 1" intake elbow, through a 1" bulkhead, to a 1.5" head and down pipe, will probably give you a "vortex" at the intake. the suction of the drop through the 1.5" pipe is considerably greater than a 1" down pipe. I don't have a vortex problem with 1.5" all the way, and I imagine, with a 1" elbow on 1" system there should not be a vortex problem. Simple logic. MauserReef, has run a 1" system, don't know if he has had a vortex issue. I can't run a 1" system, the tank would overflow......:smokin:

Jim

 

[teesquare]

Thanks Jim-
I am about to start working on a tank that is plumbed for 2" bulkheads in the external overflow. Plan is to run 2" on all 3 pipes. The overflow is along one end of the tank ( tank is a Deep Dimensions 250 from Perfecto. Measures 60"L x 36"D x 27"H ) so it is approx 35" long.
The plan is to run the overflow /returns circuit with a Hammerhead pump. This is a gross flow of 5800 gph, but after head loss probably around 4200 gph.
What say you Jim................?
T

 

[uncleof6]

You got to many holes in yer tank, so says I..........

would use 2.5" pipe. Yer light by about 1000 gph.

Jim

 

[jb61264]

I plan to use a glass overflow box inside the tank but I will not be going coast to coast with it. My tank is 48" and I plan to make my overflow 36"...my question is...assuming I plan to run 1" through the entire system, how deep and wide should my overflow box be?

 

[teesquare]

Jim:
Yep, I was afraid of that... May trade a Hammerhead for a Barracuda, or simply tee off some of the flow to run reactors, etc...
As for holes... You should see my 360 gal display...14 holes ALL in the tank floor <G>!..........
T

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14848220#post14848220 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jb61264
I plan to use a glass overflow box inside the tank but I will not be going coast to coast with it. My tank is 48" and I plan to make my overflow 36"...my question is...assuming I plan to run 1" through the entire system, how deep and wide should my overflow box be?

Sorry, I don't have any 1" plumbing parts around to measure for you. It only needs to be big enough to get your hand in and accommodate the elbows, with the elbows close to the bottom, w/1" probably less than an inch off the bottom. 36" will work fine for the length. Not as well as full length, run your returns at the ends of the overflow to keep the surface slime out where the overflow will pull it in.

Regards,

Jim

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14848278#post14848278 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
Jim:
Yep, I was afraid of that... May trade a Hammerhead for a Barracuda, or simply tee off some of the flow to run reactors, etc...
As for holes... You should see my 360 gal display...14 holes ALL in the tank floor <G>!..........
T

Well I have seen the perfecto, both way overkilled.... chuckles.... luck of the Irish to ya.

 

[teesquare]

Yea, I know JIm., but how many times have I heard - "I wish I had drilled more holes"... I tend to over-do by what most folks agree is adequate. But - I will tell you that on the 360 I set up, water movement is well distributed, without any of the critters being "blown around".
I don't like powerheads - of anykind - and with the flow potentials that I plan into a tank, they are never needed.
I may start a tank build thread on this one.... I have asked they Perfecto folks to get a short video clip of the water laser cutting the riuses in the front and rear panes of glass. That would be something that some here may not have seen before.
This started out as a customers tank ( I help Dave at the Asheville Aqurium on some custom installs and so on)..... After a lot of "back and forth" between the husband and wife, he finally did what any real man does.... gave in to her, and gave up his deposit on the tank HA!!
So, since I have worked on this for months, and really have a space where I can put it, I bought it.
T

 

[uncleof6]

The debate over closed loop vs. powerheads is really one of personal preference. My preference is based on simplicity, and you know what would come after that.........WAF, is something I don't worry about. Occasionally GAF gets in the way, but if they don't pay the bills, they got no say.

Jim

 

[teesquare]

WAF=?
GAF=?

I hear you about simplicity. Though we may define it differently:
I like 1 pump, with several dispersal points. I can observe, and work on that pump if needed, it is in a basement or cabinet. Cost of 1 external pmp -vs- 3 or 4 decent quality powerheads is probably a toss up. I can balance or change flow externally via valving. To create the same amount of flow in a tank, I would need a few electrical cords attached to powerheads hanging out of a tank. Messy IMHO......And when one has a problem, I have to monkey around in the tank, inevitiably breaking a coral, or tumbling some rock. Not my way to solve a problem.
The Perfecto tank I sent you a drawing of... 2 external pumps, and 2 OM-4's. All externally accesible. Never had a leak, have plumbed over 500 tanks up to 6500 gal.
T

 

[uncleof6]

WAF = Wife Approval Factor
GAF = Girlfriend Approval Factor (the narcissistic kind anyway)

Not knockin your closed loop, pickin on yer holy tank is all. Each way has advantages and disadvantages, same with most everything in this business.

Like the perfecto as a matter of fact, will be an interesting display.

J