Da Maui life
New member
Scroll up just a bit #6133 and the answer you shall find.
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
eledile
Active member
DOH!:headwallblue: I guess I was just looking too hard to see the things right in front of my face..
But what about my return? On the same side as the overflow or opposite?
And for my return pump I'm thinking a Mag Drive 18.
And should I just have one return line in the center or split it in two and put them in the "corners"? Will I be able to split the line coming from the Mag Drive 18 into two and still be able to pump up 4 feet? Or will I need a larger pump?
got a new pump (WB5000 for a 75g) and am having some issues with the overflow....
when the full siphon is set so that it is not creating a vortex, the secondary standpipe is taking on too much flow. When I open up the main siphon gate valve to reduce the amount of flow in the secondary standpipe, it drains the overflow box or creates a vortex. I cant seem to get a happy medium.
the water level in the overflow box is just below the top of the 90s....the actual opening to the bulkhead of the primary siphon is about 1/4" lower than the open standpipe, but I cut the 90s so that there is significant amount of space between the opening of the 90s and the bottom pane of the overflow. all plumbing is 1.5"....my assumption is that 1" plumbing would have solved all of these issues.
i dont know what else to do...any help is appreciated.
when the full siphon is set so that it is not creating a vortex, the secondary standpipe is taking on too much flow. When I open up the main siphon gate valve to reduce the amount of flow in the secondary standpipe, it drains the overflow box or creates a vortex. I cant seem to get a happy medium.
the water level in the overflow box is just below the top of the 90s....the actual opening to the bulkhead of the primary siphon is about 1/4" lower than the open standpipe, but I cut the 90s so that there is significant amount of space between the opening of the 90s and the bottom pane of the overflow. all plumbing is 1.5"....my assumption is that 1" plumbing would have solved all of these issues.
i dont know what else to do...any help is appreciated.
tuber
New member
maybe still too much space between 90 and overflow bottom ? I'm using WaterBlaster 3000 - my full siphon 1" 90 is only 3/8" off of bottom for what it's worth.
what size plumbing do you have overall?
tuber
New member
my 1" full-siphon inlet elbow reduces to 3/4" pipe all the way to fully-open 3/4" ball valve at bottom end. then goes though 3/4" elbow attached to 1" sump/sock fitting.
open- channel is all 1" with fully open 1" ball valve into 2nd sock.
safety channel is all 1" - no valve
my WaterBlaster 3000 discharge is all 1" against 4' of head.
I recently bought a 60g cube that already had 2 drains drilled and i'm wanting to convert it to a bean animal. The issue I have is that the tank is drilled 4 1/4" from the top trim with 1" bulkheads. Whenever you add the turned down 90's, i'm looking at like 5 1/2". That seems awfully deep and i'll be adding couplers to the emergency drain just to make the normal water level, in the tank, right at the bottom trim.
Here's how the tank was set up prior to me getting it (also drilled for a closed loop so ignore the strainer in the middle):
If someone has some suggestions on how to implement this amazing system, it'd be greaty appreciated.
Here's how the tank was set up prior to me getting it (also drilled for a closed loop so ignore the strainer in the middle):
If someone has some suggestions on how to implement this amazing system, it'd be greaty appreciated.
I finally got my tank plumbed in. 75 gallon to a 40 breeder in the basement and about 750 gph from a Reeflo Blowhole 1450.
The three drains drop 6 feet to the basement ceiling, then go through a slanted section where they drop another 1 foot over 8 feet, then it's another 6 foot drop into the sump and end 1 inch into the water with a gate valve just above the sump on the full siphon.
The tank part is exactly to BeanAnimal's specs with 1.5" PVC, Sanitary tees, cleanout caps, street elbow into an overflow box, etc. It diverges from BeanAnimal's specs because of the nearly horizontal section, and it's this that is causing me trouble, so I'd like suggestions for how to possibly tune it. It's possible that the answer will be that it can't be tuned.
I can tell that it's having trouble getting all the water out of the full siphon pipe. I can turn the gate valve all the way shut and turn the return pump on. The emergency initially kicks in, but gradually the open channel takes over and handles all the flow without going into full siphon mode because I have the tube on the open channel about 1/4 inch above the emergency. It's noisy, as you'd expect. Then I can go downstairs and gradually open up the gate valve. It gets noisier, the water level starts slowly dropping in the box and stabilizes eventually, but it stays noisy.
At one point I opened the valve a full turn more, the box upstairs got really quiet as it managed to push the air out of the line, and then, of course, it drained the overflow box and made flushing noises. If I keep the gate valve closed to the point where it doesn't flush the box, it doesn't seem to be moving fast enough to push the bubbles out of the full siphon and it stays noisy.
I'd like to know what my options are from some of the BeanAnimal gurus here. Should I just wait longer with the stable flow rate to get it to purge the bubbles? I feel if I have it at a stable level with bubbles in the full siphon then as soon as it purges them it will speed up so much that it will flush, no matter what.
Another option would be a larger return pump, maybe double the flow rate so that it could push enough through the siphon to purge the bubbles since I know it's possible to do with a high enough flow. Think that's my best option?
Thanks for any advice.
The three drains drop 6 feet to the basement ceiling, then go through a slanted section where they drop another 1 foot over 8 feet, then it's another 6 foot drop into the sump and end 1 inch into the water with a gate valve just above the sump on the full siphon.
The tank part is exactly to BeanAnimal's specs with 1.5" PVC, Sanitary tees, cleanout caps, street elbow into an overflow box, etc. It diverges from BeanAnimal's specs because of the nearly horizontal section, and it's this that is causing me trouble, so I'd like suggestions for how to possibly tune it. It's possible that the answer will be that it can't be tuned.
I can tell that it's having trouble getting all the water out of the full siphon pipe. I can turn the gate valve all the way shut and turn the return pump on. The emergency initially kicks in, but gradually the open channel takes over and handles all the flow without going into full siphon mode because I have the tube on the open channel about 1/4 inch above the emergency. It's noisy, as you'd expect. Then I can go downstairs and gradually open up the gate valve. It gets noisier, the water level starts slowly dropping in the box and stabilizes eventually, but it stays noisy.
At one point I opened the valve a full turn more, the box upstairs got really quiet as it managed to push the air out of the line, and then, of course, it drained the overflow box and made flushing noises. If I keep the gate valve closed to the point where it doesn't flush the box, it doesn't seem to be moving fast enough to push the bubbles out of the full siphon and it stays noisy.
I'd like to know what my options are from some of the BeanAnimal gurus here. Should I just wait longer with the stable flow rate to get it to purge the bubbles? I feel if I have it at a stable level with bubbles in the full siphon then as soon as it purges them it will speed up so much that it will flush, no matter what.
Another option would be a larger return pump, maybe double the flow rate so that it could push enough through the siphon to purge the bubbles since I know it's possible to do with a high enough flow. Think that's my best option?
Thanks for any advice.
This is essentially exactly what is happening in my system...i already went to a larger return pump and it didnt fix anything. 1.5" plumbing is capable of handling 5,000gph. I honestly think that 1.5" is too large and require too high of a flow to work with a pump that is pushing a flow rate of about 6-7x overturn for a 75 gallon tank which is ideal...any thoughts here?
I would be willing to go up to 25x or 30x through the sump if I thought that would do it. I am a believer in high flow through the sump.
Seems like downsizing the siphon pipe to increase the flow velocity at the same flow rate would be cheaper, though. May try 1 inch pvc down for just the full siphon before getting a bigger pump.
Trying to borrow a hammerhead or something locally just to test it out.
Dotterer
New member
I'm currently in build mode myself, so take this with six grains of salt, but I'd try varying the heights of the individual pipes - moving the siphon lower in the overflow box than the other pipes may work to make sure that they siphon is going even at the restricted flow from the valve.
The other thing might be to get a more expensive true union ball valve - I got the $25 or so one from BRS, and it is so much more smooth (and able to be micro-controlled) than the ones I picked up at Home Depot.
It's already a smidge lower, actually, like a quarter inch. I cut a bit off the coupling for the open channel just to help it start because I was concerned about my non-standard mod to the overflow system by doing the horizontal pipes and basement sump.
I have a Spears 1.5" gate valve at the moment. It doesn't get much smoother. Hard to tell how far it's open, but that's a largely academic concern once I get the flow rate set right. I'm starting from fully closed and slowly opening it and then waiting a while to see what happens. With these very long drain pipes it seems to be a pretty delayed reaction between tweaking the valve and something happening upstairs.
I hit a pretty big snag in my 75 gallon hexagon build related to my BeanAnimal drainage system. Any ideas would be appreciated. I've attached 3 pictures.
My main problem is that I am going with an internal overflow and the top acrylic piece of my tank is in the way of the top of the risers. If I lower everything enough to fit inside the tank and top piece, the water level is going to be quite low inside the overflow resulting in a large drop over the weir.
Options include avoiding the top on the risers which Bean mentioned is mainly there for cleaning. This lets me go with 2 90 degree elbows and I can raise the bottom of the 90 degree piece where the water enters. Or I could cut a large hole in the acrylic which scares the hell out of me. Or I could not use 2 elbows and instead have the water drop straight into the pipes or into the pipes at a 45 or 90 degree angle.
Any more ideas or recommendations? Greatly appreciated if so.
My main problem is that I am going with an internal overflow and the top acrylic piece of my tank is in the way of the top of the risers. If I lower everything enough to fit inside the tank and top piece, the water level is going to be quite low inside the overflow resulting in a large drop over the weir.
Options include avoiding the top on the risers which Bean mentioned is mainly there for cleaning. This lets me go with 2 90 degree elbows and I can raise the bottom of the 90 degree piece where the water enters. Or I could cut a large hole in the acrylic which scares the hell out of me. Or I could not use 2 elbows and instead have the water drop straight into the pipes or into the pipes at a 45 or 90 degree angle.
Any more ideas or recommendations? Greatly appreciated if so.
I have an idea on fixing my issue...
If I go with 2 90 degree elbows only and don't seal them onto the vertical riser, this would let me pull them off still if I ever need to clean. A minor leak there from not sealing shouldn't be the end of the world right? It also gives me more clearance as the large vertical cap is no longer needed. For the small air tube, I'll just drill a small hole in the top of the open channel elbow directly above the vertical riser.
The above method would be used for the full siphon and open channel. For the emergency I would just leave an open vertical riser. For the return I'm still deciding whether to branch it out and send water in both directions or whether I should send the water all out one side and trying to get the flow in the entire tank spinning.
I can also trim the downward portion of the elbow slightly where the water enters which would also reduce the distance the water is falling over the weir.
If I go with 2 90 degree elbows only and don't seal them onto the vertical riser, this would let me pull them off still if I ever need to clean. A minor leak there from not sealing shouldn't be the end of the world right? It also gives me more clearance as the large vertical cap is no longer needed. For the small air tube, I'll just drill a small hole in the top of the open channel elbow directly above the vertical riser.
The above method would be used for the full siphon and open channel. For the emergency I would just leave an open vertical riser. For the return I'm still deciding whether to branch it out and send water in both directions or whether I should send the water all out one side and trying to get the flow in the entire tank spinning.
I can also trim the downward portion of the elbow slightly where the water enters which would also reduce the distance the water is falling over the weir.
uncleof6
Active member
Silicone is not going to seal the joints. It is a complete waste of time. If you are glued up, and the system is sucking air—and barring a vortex at the siphon intake, you have to rebuild the plumbing and do it better this time around. Silicone is not, and never has been, a cure for less than good workmanship. That advice needs to be stricken from the list of reasonable advice.
4" is pretty short, almost at the absolute minimum for the thing to work at all. For properly placed 1" bulkheads, the center of the hole is 2 3/4" (minimum distance;hard rule) down from the top edge of the glass. Do the math...
uncleof6
Active member
Proper assembly would be to assemble the box outside the tank, and silicone the assembly in place, using clamps to hold it in place. A week cure time, at least, before installing the assembly in the tank.
You don't know if it is right?? Why not? You should not be installing anything until you know it is right...
uncleof6
Active member
Why are you so concerned about this? Far too much time is being wasted worrying over fish getting in the overlfow...this is a non issue, and the resulting modifications result in poor performance. Fish do get in overflows, and usually wind up in the sump: non-issue.
Once you cut teeth in the overflow, your flow capacity will decrease by 1/2 - 2/3, due to the decreased length of the weir (effective length.) Leave it alone, if it is not broke—don't fix it. Once you cut teeth in it, you will be out of business.
Similar threads
