Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Cbsailor11
New member
Bean I didn't state that the system would rely on the pump to maintain siphon. Only as an assist to restart the siphon. An aqualifter only has a 3.5gph rating so once the siphon is going the pump output in negated. If one has a controller, it can be set to turn off the pump after a set time. I only asked if it would help those that have a slow restart issue. If it fails then yes you back to the original slow siphon start but the benefit you asked is that this siphon restart issue is gone.
Yes your design works for thousands of tanks, my aim was to offer a possible addition to those that have an issue with restarts. So I ask again would it work?
Yes your design works for thousands of tanks, my aim was to offer a possible addition to those that have an issue with restarts. So I ask again would it work?
Cbsailor11
New member
SGT- I have to say that dropping to 1/2"-3/4" pipe would present one with more problems than a slow restart. Those sizes can clog via a snail/hermit etc. quite easily. Plus it's a deviation from Bean's original concept of 1.5" pipe. As Bean stated<250 gph doesn't need his system. As I stated this question was not posed for my system but asked to try and find a fix/assist those with start up issues.
Cbsailor11
New member
Andy- odd question but what is the flow rate requirements for you skimmer? If you increase the flow too much it may not skim efficiently. Mine requires 1000gph so this system will work perfect for me with 1.5" overflows. Since I have to dial back for noise I should be right about recommended flow.
I'm freshwater so no skimmer.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
If the pump fails and allows air in, the siphon will be broken. There are other possible unwanted interactions as well.
The point is that "slow restart" is not an issue when the system is setup as designed. On extremely low flow systems, the system is not needed and/or the siphon pipe could be downsized.
In almost every case the "restart" issue is related to an air leak, excess discharge depth, or a system that deviates from the published design. Once the basic system design is changed from the published plans, all bets are off.
Will your aqualifter work for you? It very well may but it is outside the scope of the proven design and thus (from my perspective) not needed. Furthermore, its addition introduces additional points of failure and failure modes.
Cbsailor11
New member
Bean- Thank you, I understand your points. Yes it is a change to the original design,(and voids all warranties either expressed or implied) but so is a reduction in pipe size. I understand that changes due require testing to see if it is an asset or a problem. I may do some R&D on this just for giggles. Not as a change to your system just to satisfy my own curiosity. If I do get around to it, I'll send you my findings for review.
I plan on using your original system design on my 180, it's by far the best I've come across and fits my flow requirements perfectly. Thank you again.
I plan on using your original system design on my 180, it's by far the best I've come across and fits my flow requirements perfectly. Thank you again.
Cbsailor11
New member
Andy. Unless you can change the return to eliminate some of the head loss, then yes I would look into a bigger pump.
SGT_York
New member
A durso would work just fine as well in that situation.
clogs are an inherent weakness in any siphon line primarily due to the smallest diameter section (the valve) is located in the middle of the plumbing not at the initial opening. You should have a method of reducing that threat, aside from the mitigating emergency pipe. Also your plumbing size doesn't affect the potential for clogs, it is your flow, as that determines the size of the valve opening.
Another alternative I've been testing for a air removal tool, particularly during long horizontal runs is to install another john guset with flex hose to the top of the pipe and run that tubing to slightly below sump water level, that eliminated the air trapping still not sure where the best position for it is right now it's a few inches away from the last 90 in the horizontal section. It's better than drilling holes as it can't allow air in but let's it escape during startup.
Last edited:
mmn
New member
Hi
I've got an Aqueon 125g I'm getting ready to drill for this system and I would like to some feedback from the experts. I've been through this whole thread twice now and I'm dang near cross-eyed! But I really believe in this system and I'm trying to stay in the design guidelines.
Holes are 2 3/8" for 1 1/2" BHs and for flow through from the internal c2c to the external box. Plumbing is 1 1/2" PVC, sanitary t's. Sump, pump, returns, etc. TBD.
The external box looks big, but I'm trying to allow for the rule about at least a diameter from any edge or hole.
Here's a back view:
Here's a view from the right:
And a view from the left:
Regards
Michael
I've got an Aqueon 125g I'm getting ready to drill for this system and I would like to some feedback from the experts. I've been through this whole thread twice now and I'm dang near cross-eyed! But I really believe in this system and I'm trying to stay in the design guidelines.
Holes are 2 3/8" for 1 1/2" BHs and for flow through from the internal c2c to the external box. Plumbing is 1 1/2" PVC, sanitary t's. Sump, pump, returns, etc. TBD.
The external box looks big, but I'm trying to allow for the rule about at least a diameter from any edge or hole.
Here's a back view:
Here's a view from the right:
And a view from the left:
Regards
Michael
Mrramsey
NEO Reefer
Ok I have a question... My bean has been running just fine for about a year. I bought the tank used and the previous owner had initially started the overflow and I simply continued his work to fruition. The entire system was done with 3/4" bulkheads and 3/4" PVC. All of this was done on a freshwater tank. I am now moving towards saltwater
The system is powered by a mag18 which is probably way overkill. I do not know the exact flow rate of what I have but guess it to between 450 and 600 Gph. I really do not know what I can do to make the system better. Is there anything in particular I should be concerned about?
A couple things I don't like about the current set up is that I have a full coast to coast across the back of the tank. It's about 3-1/2 " out from the back wall df the tank and just eats up a lot of the aquarium. Thinking I could shorten it to 24" wide? Are there any issues with doing that?
The system is powered by a mag18 which is probably way overkill. I do not know the exact flow rate of what I have but guess it to between 450 and 600 Gph. I really do not know what I can do to make the system better. Is there anything in particular I should be concerned about?
A couple things I don't like about the current set up is that I have a full coast to coast across the back of the tank. It's about 3-1/2 " out from the back wall df the tank and just eats up a lot of the aquarium. Thinking I could shorten it to 24" wide? Are there any issues with doing that?
Cbsailor11
New member
Sgt- I agree the valve is the first choke point in the design. Be nice if someone made clear plumbing to monitor for issues. As for the size of the plumbing not being a potential for clogs, I have to disagree. Place your thumb over a 1/2" pipe end, now a 1.5" pipe. Which one is restricted? Interesting in your thoughts on the bleeding system, what have you found out so far?
Mrramsey- I would keep the coast to coast as it provides surface skimming of the entire tank. Yes it does take up some real estate but from what I have read, it is the preferred way to surface skim. And yes the Mag 18 may be overkill, 1500gph @ 0 head. You need to compute your head loss to get your actual flow rate. What size tank do you have?
Mrramsey- I would keep the coast to coast as it provides surface skimming of the entire tank. Yes it does take up some real estate but from what I have read, it is the preferred way to surface skim. And yes the Mag 18 may be overkill, 1500gph @ 0 head. You need to compute your head loss to get your actual flow rate. What size tank do you have?
Mrramsey
NEO Reefer
Cbsailor11-
I agree it is a great system just hate the look from the side where the c2c is siliconed to the glass. The tank is a 72g bowfront. I have about a 4-1/2 ft head height, one union, one ball valve, one 3/4 bulkhead, and a handful of fittings on the outlet in the tank. I think a 9.5 would be plenty but the real concern for me right now is should I re work the plumbing and use the 1" bulkheads on the drains and or upsize the drains to the 1.25 -1.5 specification. Never doing saltwater before I guess what I am asking is is am I getting enough flow through the sump as is? Is there a benefit to upsizing the drains with the 3/4 bulkheads?
I agree it is a great system just hate the look from the side where the c2c is siliconed to the glass. The tank is a 72g bowfront. I have about a 4-1/2 ft head height, one union, one ball valve, one 3/4 bulkhead, and a handful of fittings on the outlet in the tank. I think a 9.5 would be plenty but the real concern for me right now is should I re work the plumbing and use the 1" bulkheads on the drains and or upsize the drains to the 1.25 -1.5 specification. Never doing saltwater before I guess what I am asking is is am I getting enough flow through the sump as is? Is there a benefit to upsizing the drains with the 3/4 bulkheads?
When running the full siphon to a basement what special considerations do I need to take into account? Haven't worked out exactly what I'm doing with the sump yet, but I expect 10-12' of drop.
I'm looking at going to 1" pipe and adding the gate valve near the output of the pipe.
Am I missing anything else that I should be doing?
I'm looking at going to 1" pipe and adding the gate valve near the output of the pipe.
Am I missing anything else that I should be doing?
SGT_York
New member
Clay is all your pipe vertical in other words is your sump directly underneath your display.
CBsailor, The horizontal is not very far it's a 125 with dual overflows so about a 4' section. The siphon starts up very quickly. Without the valve it took a while longer to start them up but it's a dual-herbie so it worked even without the valve. I'd like to try it on a longer horizontal bean animal setup but don't have any locations yet.
CBsailor, The horizontal is not very far it's a 125 with dual overflows so about a 4' section. The siphon starts up very quickly. Without the valve it took a while longer to start them up but it's a dual-herbie so it worked even without the valve. I'd like to try it on a longer horizontal bean animal setup but don't have any locations yet.
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