Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

I am finalizing my list of parts and well now I am second guessing my choices. Should I do all 1.5" or all 1"? I am planning on having ~1200 gph flow through the 55g sump on my 120g short DT. I am going to be running a MagDrive 24 pump with 3 1" return lines.

Its not a cost issue but more of an overkill issue. Would having the 1.5" bulkheads and drains be total overkill for a 1200 gph flow?

** I probably just answered my own question but using the calculator on beananimal's website I get ~2150gph at 1" bulkhead full siphon with a 40" head height and ~4842 gph with the 1.5" bulkhead. I just don't want to end up adding all 1.5" plumbing If I end up restricting it by 75% to get the proper flow. Am I looking at this correctly?
 
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Mrramsey said:
I am finalizing my list of parts and well now I am second guessing my choices. Should I do all 1.5" or all 1"? I am planning on having ~1200 gph flow through the 55g sump on my 120g short DT. I am going to be running a MagDrive 24 pump with 3 1" return lines.

Its not a cost issue but more of an overkill issue. Would having the 1.5" bulkheads and drains be total overkill for a 1200 gph flow?

** I probably just answered my own question but using the calculator on beananimal's website I get ~2150gph at 1" bulkhead full siphon with a 40" head height and ~4842 gph with the 1.5" bulkhead. I just don't want to end up adding all 1.5" plumbing If I end up restricting it by 75% to get the proper flow. Am I looking at this correctly?
Click to expand...

if you're not going to utilize that much, you can go with smaller or bigger, it doesn't matter since the main thing is your pump. If your pump doesn't pushes at least 4800gph, then it wouldn't matter because the overflow will match whatever your pump puts out.
 
in case if anyone was wondering,

I got my system to purge/restart siphon automatically now. It is such heaven when you don't have to adjust it every time. I move my siphon pipe to where the emergency was and move emergency pipe to previous siphon pipe. I guess there was some back pressure causing the siphon to not be able to restart automatically. It's probably due to my fault for running it horizontal to my sump tank. The siphon pipe now has a shorter distance of horizontal length to siphon and it restarts automatically after every pump shutdown.

AWESOME!
 
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

Yes if your drains are too far below the water level in the sump it is difficult to get the siphon going. It should only be about 1" below the surface.
 
I made a change and I am a bit confused. My change was in regards to the airline in the Open Channel standpipe. I had it up above the canopy. I moved it down into the overflow, down into the water in the overflow similar to CAD drawings in Post #1.

Now I have a surge bucket. Every few minutes the overflow begins to fill up and WHAM!!!! a massive gurgling noise the entire overflow dumps into the sump. This happens every few minutes. I don't understand the exact position of airline in the overflow.

I love the statement, if it ain't broke don't fix it, but I would like to keep it inline with the design and not have a one off.

thanks

rich
 
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Mrramsey said:
Yes if your drains are too far below the water level in the sump it is difficult to get the siphon going. It should only be about 1" below the surface.
Click to expand...

I was not talking about the distance from pipe into sump. The stand pipes from overflow goes down to sump, but it goes behind the stand first and extend horizontal into sump, that's what I was talking about. Due to my stand build, I had to go this route.
Next time, i'll make sure it goes down directly into sump.
 
GROSSR said:
I made a change and I am a bit confused. My change was in regards to the airline in the Open Channel standpipe. I had it up above the canopy. I moved it down into the overflow, down into the water in the overflow similar to CAD drawings in Post #1.

Now I have a surge bucket. Every few minutes the overflow begins to fill up and WHAM!!!! a massive gurgling noise the entire overflow dumps into the sump. This happens every few minutes. I don't understand the exact position of airline in the overflow.

I love the statement, if it ain't broke don't fix it, but I would like to keep it inline with the design and not have a one off.

thanks

rich
Click to expand...


Hey Rich, the airline should be above water unless there is a failure in the siphon and emergency, which would then turn the open channel into a full siphon, but I don't think that's your problem.

It sounds like your pump isn't pushing enough water to keep the siphon at full siphon, and you are basically running two open drinks until the siphon does kick in, and then it drains ( killing the siphon and starting again ).

Check to make sure the siphon and open channels are only 1" under water in the sump, and if they are, then dial back the siphon until you get to the point where the partially blocked siphon doesn't drai in the whole thing.

Final thing you might check is the height of the drains, but I really suspect is something above.
 
does the overflow fill up steadily or very quickly. if it's quickly then I second the above if it is a gradual then the opposite is true and the siphon isn't pulling enough water, which causes the open channel to convert to a siphon rapidly draining the overflow.

keep the airline high and see if it stabilizes, if it does put the airline back in just slightly above the stable water level.
 
Correct hole size?

Correct hole size?

I'm still in the planning phase of my new 90 gal, 48" x 24" x 18", tank build and I was going to take advantage of the Bean overflow, as documented on his web page. Also, I'll have an interior coast to coast overflow box.

This is what I'm planning.

1) The three 1 3/4" holes will be drilled on the back left side, as if you were looking from behind the tank. Is this the correct diameter?
2) The top of each hole will be 2" from the top.
3) Each hole's center will be located 3 3/4" from each other.
4) The leftmost hole's center will be located 3 3/4" from the tank's left side.

Does this sound like I'm off to a good start?

Thanks
 
dottere - thanks for the reply. I have a 46 bow with about 10 gallons in the sump. I have a eheim 1260 converted to a 1262. Drains are about 3/4" under the baffle of a fixed section of the sump, so that water level will never drop below the baffle.

I had that airline above the top of the tank and moved it down into the overflow, into the water. I believe my pump is ok, drains are ok. With both drain fully open the sucking noise is constant. I turn back the valve until the noise begin to subside. The overflow being to fill up and I keep adjust the valve. Might take 5 minutes or so to get it silent.

I think I will move the airline above the elbow as Bean illustrated in his drawings and see what that does. Otherwise I will go back to if it ain't broke don't fix it.

thanks

rich
 
Sanitary tee's are waste pipe fittings. Schedule 80 is for pressurized lines for pumping water. Schedule 40 will give you the most flexibility for this system. The pressure is not high enough to warrant schedule 80. I think the only thing on my current system that is schedule 80 are the bulkheads.
 
Can you guys please help me out? I'm having a terrible time with bubbles coming from my drain lines. I have them right at 1 inch below the water line in my sump. I assume that air is getting into the lines from somewhere. My open channel is being used very little and my siphon is handling the rest. I think the siphon is working propery, but I'm probably wrong cause the siphon wouldn't have air in it correct? Can you guys steer me in the right direction to try to alleviate this issue? if it matters the drains are silent. Thanks in Advance
 
I get a few bubbles out of my open channel but I have 3/4 lines so that is to be expected in my case. Is the water level in the overflow too low? I keep mine at the top of the elbows. If I go lower I get little vortexes that will swirl at the intake and draw air. Short of that I would suspect a bad glue joint, cracked fitting or something that is drawing air in. Did you glue the elbows into the bulkheads or just slip them in? If they are slipped in with no glue and the water is not completely covering the bulkhead they could be sucking air in. Hopefully this gives you some things to look at.
 
bmooney31 said:
Can you guys please help me out? I'm having a terrible time with bubbles coming from my drain lines. I have them right at 1 inch below the water line in my sump. I assume that air is getting into the lines from somewhere. My open channel is being used very little and my siphon is handling the rest. I think the siphon is working propery, but I'm probably wrong cause the siphon wouldn't have air in it correct? Can you guys steer me in the right direction to try to alleviate this issue? if it matters the drains are silent. Thanks in Advance
Click to expand...

Can you determine which drain is making the bubbles? If it's the siphon, you could have a small air sucking leak. I would not glue fittings to the bulkhead but perhaps a little sandpaper would smooth the connection out so it fits better.

Another possibility with the siphon is if there is enough flow you could get cavitation. It's caused not by an air leak but by a pressure drop.

If the bubbles are from the open drain, perhaps you are trying to send too much flow down it. Turbulence in the line, elbows and such, will also cause the bubbles.

If it's quiet you must be close to the solution!
 
The open channel will have bubbles, the siphon should not. almost always the air is being sucked in at the top, slightly closing the valve raising the water level will help. If the bubbles are pea size or larger it's from the opening, if they are micro or very tiny it could be a slight leak which are normally near the bulkhead, but may be anywhere. fortunately those micro leaks don't really make any impacts to the drain function and you can live with them if you choose.
 
I have this setup on my 75 display tank and love it when it's running! Absolutely silent! But I have run into a little problem. When I tested it and stopped the pump to my returns and re started it my full siphon does not want to start up on it's own. Luckily with the setup it will never overflow due to the open channel and emergency, but I would still like it to work properly. I have discovered to get it going again I adjust the ball valve open all the way and then it does it's gurgling routine and then I have to re-adjust the ball valve to its slightly closed position. Is this the reason it's not creating a full siphon at start up? Should I have that ball valve wide open the whole time and allow for more flow out of the returns to keep up with it? Thanks for any input!
 
No keeping the valve open will just turn it into a poor durso. there could be several reasons it's not starting on it's own. Does the open channel air line cause that one to siphon, if the airline is too low it drains the water before the siphon line can purge of air. Also drain pipes too far below the water will hinder air escaping and thereby siphon starting. Try raising the airline to just below the emergency start up point and see if that helps.
 
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