Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Jimbojames]

FWIW, I run a ReeFlo dart on the system, as published

I had a Snapper for some time, but wanted more flow. I keep meaning to put the new DC pump on the return but never get around to it, so for now the Dart it is.

Will there be to much flow, will this cause the emergency to be in use? Or the 2nd ovr flow to run full?

Should i run my skimmer off the same pump?

Should i use gate valve on pump feed to tank.

What dc pump you using bean?

 

[uncleof6]

FWIW, I run a ReeFlo dart on the system, as published

I had a Snapper for some time, but wanted more flow. I keep meaning to put the new DC pump on the return but never get around to it, so for now the Dart it is.

Well, get on with it!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Not gonna happen any time soon!

I have 3 Radion (2nd gen) lights that I was thinking about putting up, but can't seem to wrap my head around going through with it. I like my MH and other than paying for the lightly used Radions (moment of stupidity) have no reason to put them up.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Will there be to much flow, will this cause the emergency to be in use? Or the 2nd ovr flow to run full?

Should i run my skimmer off the same pump?

Should i use gate valve on pump feed to tank.

What dc pump you using bean?

I have a few of the Waveline pumps. I had one hooked to my Oceans Motions closed loop, but killed it (water in controller) and (another moment of stupidity) disconnected the OM Squirt in prep for moving up to an OM 4-way (lightly used) but never got around to it. So for now the ONLY pump is the Dart.

I prefer to run the skimmer from a dedicated pump. That way the flow is stable and predictable.
Gate valve... I see no need, but some folks feel they need them. I can adjust my overflow with the ball valve in 2 seconds (once or twice a year when I clean out the standpipe or fiddle with the return pump, etc).

 

[DaveMorris]

OK, I am having a really hard time getting my drain system to develop a siphon. Here's my setup:

130g tank with external overflow
Overflow is 5" x 24" x 6" deep
All three drain pipes are 1" PVC
The siphon line is submerged approx. 1" below the water surface in the sump when it is running normally.

If I open and close the siphon valve I can get the siphon to work and once it does, everything runs great. After getting the siphon going, once I turn off the return pump and then turn it back on, the siphon won't start up and the backup line starts doing all the work, sucking water through the air line.

Should the siphon line and the open line both have their downturned elbows at the same height?

Is there a way to jump start the siphon?

 

[JRR1285]

OK, I am having a really hard time getting my drain system to develop a siphon. Here's my setup:

130g tank with external overflow
Overflow is 5" x 24" x 6" deep
All three drain pipes are 1" PVC
The siphon line is submerged approx. 1" below the water surface in the sump when it is running normally.

If I open and close the siphon valve I can get the siphon to work and once it does, everything runs great. After getting the siphon going, once I turn off the return pump and then turn it back on, the siphon won't start up and the backup line starts doing all the work, sucking water through the air line.

Should the siphon line and the open line both have their downturned elbows at the same height?

Is there a way to jump start the siphon?

It sounds like your airline is too deep in the overflow box. From my understanding it should be nearly as high as the emergency upturned elbow. If the water gets that high it will then turn the open channel into a siphon. If it's too low it may end up becoming the siphon instead of the one you intended to be the siphon.

 

[adamPL]

Hi guys, did I miss anything?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I would raise your open channel quite a bit. With everything that low your water will crash down and you will have a ton of bubbles. Extend the entire assembly up so the horizontal portion is at the desired overflow box water level. Then extend the emergency up as well. Leave the siphon where it is, that can be deep under water (better that way). I have a similar setup (end of glass rimless) and I wish I had made my external box deeper like yours. Looks good

 

[adamPL]

Like all 3 half way up?

 

[uncleof6]

It sounds like your airline is too deep in the overflow box. From my understanding it should be nearly as high as the emergency upturned elbow. If the water gets that high it will then turn the open channel into a siphon. If it's too low it may end up becoming the siphon instead of the one you intended to be the siphon.

Airvent line inlet should be ABOVE the inlet to the dry emergency. If it is nearly, as high or not even close to as high, the open channel will trip to siphon on system startup. Water should rise and flow in the dry emergency during startup. This insures there is enough head height to purge the air out of an otherwise properly set up system.

Adam: The relative position of the inlets to the siphon and dry emergency need not be different. Having them all at the same level, is NOT the cause of a starting issue. The starting issue will be caused by some other mistake in setting up the system.

Looking at your setup, all your pipes are way to low. Water level will be around the top of the siphon downturned elbow.... that level should be ~ 1" below the top of the weir. Your setup is going to make a bit of noise due to the high water fall.

Raise them all up, and I would recommend putting an elbow on the dry emergency, rather than the shortcut straight pipe. The difference between the inlet of the siphon, and the inlet of the dry emergency gives the head height to purge the air out of the system. You have the room, make it "as designed!"

Also, again, there is no reason to have the inlet to the open channel higher than the inlet to the siphon. Both at the same level, works as intended.

Floyd: I am rather surprised... There is nothing to be gained by having the inlet to the siphon at the bottom of the box. The system works just fine as designed. There is no need to make modifications, they are not going to improve performance.

I am thinking that box is just too deep. That box could be ~half the height it is. Perhaps that is what you are getting at...

 

[JRR1285]

Airvent line inlet should be ABOVE the inlet to the dry emergency. If it is nearly, as high or not even close to as high, the open channel will trip to siphon on system startup. Water should rise and flow in the dry emergency during startup. This insures there is enough head height to purge the air out of an otherwise properly set up system.

Adam: The relative position of the inlets to the siphon and dry emergency need not be different. Having them all at the same level, is NOT the cause of a starting issue. The starting issue will be caused by some other mistake in setting up the system.

Looking at your setup, all your pipes are way to low. Water level will be around the top of the siphon downturned elbow.... that level should be ~ 1" below the top of the weir. Your setup is going to make a bit of noise due to the high water fall.

Raise them all up, and I would recommend putting an elbow on the dry emergency, rather than the shortcut straight pipe. The difference between the inlet of the siphon, and the inlet of the dry emergency gives the head height to purge the air out of the system. You have the room, make it "as designed!"

Also, again, there is no reason to have the inlet to the open channel higher than the inlet to the siphon. Both at the same level, works as intended.

Floyd: I am rather surprised... There is nothing to be gained by having the inlet to the siphon at the bottom of the box. The system works just fine as designed. There is no need to make modifications, they are not going to improve performance.

I am thinking that box is just too deep. That box could be ~half the height it is. Perhaps that is what you are getting at...

Thanks for clarifying that. I've only had my setup running for a little over a week so I'm going to need to change that. It was working correctly so I thought I had it right.

 

[DaveMorris]

Airvent line inlet should be ABOVE the inlet to the dry emergency. If it is nearly, as high or not even close to as high, the open channel will trip to siphon on system startup. Water should rise and flow in the dry emergency during startup. This insures there is enough head height to purge the air out of an otherwise properly set up system.

Sounds like this is the cause of my troubles. My air inlet for the open drain is a little below the emergency drain. I didn't realize that it needed to be up higher than that. Thanks for the redirection.

 

[Imtryinghere]

Bean system with wave motion from powerheads

Bean system with wave motion from powerheads

Hello there, im a first time poster here and have read for the most part lots of this thread.
My question is this.
I want to have a wave like motion set up with 2 powerheads on a 180 gallon tank 72x24x24. and a coast to coast overflow with the bean animal overflow. Obviouslly the problem is the overflow box either having to much or not enough water and breaking the syphon. Could I have say my syphon drain quite a bit lower than my other two drains to compensate for the rise and fall in the overflow box. I realize I would have to have more room in the sump in case of power outage and daily feedings etc

Thanks in advance

 

[BeanAnimal]

More volume in the overflow box with a deep siphon intake will help. Depending on the size of the surges, a second open channel (maybe at a higher intake level than the primary) may also help.

With a setup like this, there will be a lot of trial and error. The siphon will need to be tuned to handle the lowest flow rate between surges or sloshes with the open channel(s) picking up the slack.

 

[RicoJ]

Well I cracked my 40 gallon breeder on what would you believe the 3rd and last hole!!!!! I found out that petsmart had their last day of the $1.00 a gallon sale so I purchased another 40 gallon breeder. I am so scared of doing the same thing again.

 

[SGT_York]

It happens on rare occassion.

How did you drill the holes? How far apart and how far from the glass ends (top and sides of tank)?

Go slow with as little pressure as possible.

 

[Rognin]

I'm in the process of building a 145 with a 28 sump.

Q: How far below the weir do you have to setup the drain lines?

Something like 2" for the full siphon 1.5" for the second and 1" for emergency?

Thanks!

 

[jrayrizzo]

I'm building a 250g tank with 2 corner overflows with four 1 inch holes total. I'm planing on the siphon and open channel in one box and the emergency in the other.

My understanding is I will need to use 1.5 in pipes after the bulkheads. Is this correct?

Also any suggestions on handling the stagnant water in the one overflow that is only housing the emergency.

 

[uncleof6]

I'm building a 250g tank with 2 corner overflows with four 1 inch holes total. I'm planing on the siphon and open channel in one box and the emergency in the other.

My understanding is I will need to use 1.5 in pipes after the bulkheads. Is this correct?

Also any suggestions on handling the stagnant water in the one overflow that is only housing the emergency.

To be honest, the Bean system is not really suited to dual corner overflows. I don't know of any that have successfully setup a dual corner overflow bean system.

That does not mean it cannot be done.

The non-functional overflow, can be filled with an oolitic aragonite, given fairly strong water flow over the top of it, and instant mini-dsb. I have my doubts that it would be very effective, as effectiveness depends on surface area, just as much as it does depth, and a corner overflow has zilch for surface area.

Some may suggest a "dual herbie" setup, but these are anything but stable, whether joined together below or not, they will be a problem getting in sync, which is unlikely anyway.

What size pipe you need to use depends on the length of the drop, and your proposed flow rate (not a guess.) 1" holes will max at around 1500 gph, using 1.5" pipe above and below the bulkhead, with a 24" drop. That is just a questimate. It will in any case be less than 1660 at a 24" drop.

All things considered, corner overflows, and bottom drilled tanks, have been made obsolete by longer more efficient overflow and drain designs. It is my hope that in the not to distant future, the mass producers get the hint that their stuff is not getting the job done, (well demonstrated by the movement toward more efficient designs,) and stop making these things.

 

[SGT_York]

+1.

If you haven't purchased the tank yet, go with a non-reef ready and do the normal Bean Animal setup.

If you already have the tank;
A dual or joint herbie is an option, duals are difficult to balance as one affects the other, Joints work well when done right, the key is to have the smaller diameter pipes meet in the exact middle of the tank (friction loss and pipe height need to be equal) or the level in the overflows will not be the same creating balancing problems.

I've done both in the past both functioned but I eventually moved to the joint setup and it has worked splendidly for the last year +.