Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

uncleof6 · Nov 5, 2016

Interesting. I started working with this system in early 2008; and through 2009 - 2010, I went through a process of converting ~250 running systems to the Bean Animal style drain system. These conversions were done/attempted in place with the existing overflows/boxes. The configurations were internal, as well as internal/external (aka Glass-holes style.) Some systems required more extensive modification, in order to get the Bean Animal system to function properly, as maintaining the basic relationships between the three drain lines was not possible.

The results of "our work" over the years (myself and the actual designer of the system: Bean Animal) has shown that the only time there is a problem with the system, is if the implementer modifies the system to the point that the basic relationships between the three drain lines are altered, and the system does not properly start.

If the main "siphon" or "primary" airlocks, it is due to the open channel taking to much flow, too soon; and often because the open channel trips to "siphon mode" before the "siphon" purges all the air (the secondary cause is the drain outlets being too deep in the sump.) This is 99.99 % an implementation error. Put simply, the head height is insufficient to purge the air out of the siphon line, because the criteria is a "small package" rather than good sound functional design.

Modifications to Bean's system, can be accomplished. However, if the basic relationships are altered, the system will not function the way it is supposed to. If the relationships are maintained, the system has no issues starting. It is repetitive, 100% of the time. If a hole in the siphon is needed to keep it from air locking, it is an implementation flaw.

It really does not matter what it is called, it is based on the design and operating principles of Bean's system, and it is subject to the same constraints in terms of modifications from Bean's original design.

uncleof6 · Nov 5, 2016

Synergy Reef said:
hahaha. I brought it to life a long time ago.

Interesting. I do have a question however: what gave you the idea to put three drain standpipes, of any configuration, in an external overflow that you "brought to life a long time ago?" E.G. where did you get the idea for the "œGhost Overflow," or where did Synergy get it, back in 2011?

I have a couple other questions concerning the design criteria, (small weirs with teeth vs more efficient longer flat weirs, for one) however this thread is about Bean Animal's design, nor Reef Savvy or Synergy modifications of that design.

"Overflow: Top Secret Reef Savvy overflow build by Synergy Reef Systems. More details will be released at MACNA 2013." (I did not wish to post a link to another forum)
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jason2459 · Nov 5, 2016

Floyd R Turbo said:
You brought my diagram to life!!

That's how I've had my overflow setup since 2011.

Working like a champ. Full siphon can't really see under the water up top. Middle emergency. Bottom open channel.

Thak you again and again BeanAnimal![/QUOTE]

BeanAnimal · Nov 7, 2016

Floyd R Turbo said:
I stand corrected, after a bunch of testing apparently the hole in the siphon line solves some issues with airlocking on startup on certain plumbing configs and doesn't cause any functionality issues.

But for a DIYer recommendation, I wouldn't go there yet

Floyd,

As I mentioned in the post above, several of us fiddled around with this, even inn the "herbie" debates. There are a few gotchas if you drill the top of the siphon u-tube.

The benefit is prevention of air-lock - But as you know there is no airlock issue with a properly configured standpipe (with out without a relief hole at sump level).

Gotcha #1: Quite simply, the hole needs to be kept clean. One more thing to maintain in a "set and forget" setup.

Gotcha #2: In the context of "one size fits all" the hole can create a vortex that draws air into the standpipe, generating unwanted bubbles and disrupting the rate of siphon.

Clearly these issues are system dependent but their presence presents a departure from the original design goals.

BrianD · Nov 7, 2016

Posts have been removed. Please report any posts from commercial entities. Thank you.

Floyd R Turbo · Nov 7, 2016

BeanAnimal said:
Gotcha #1: Quite simply, the hole needs to be kept clean. One more thing to maintain in a "set and forget" setup.

Gotcha #2: In the context of "one size fits all" the hole can create a vortex that draws air into the standpipe, generating unwanted bubbles and disrupting the rate of siphon.

I'm with you on both of these, for the DIYer, setting up the standpipes properly from the get-go should mean that you don't have a need for the siphon line hole, and therefore having it when you don't need it could definitely cause issues, as you describe.

So that could be easily patched over with epoxy putty in the case where you plumbed it right

As for the hole on the OC line, admittedly I haven't set one up with this configuration myself, but I've built boxes and supplied parts to people who have, the one I used was a 2-part P trap I bought at the local BBS with a little cap on the bottom of the U section that you could unscrew a bit so that when it was covered up it would kick over, worked pretty well I thought (at least I was told it did)

So I said earlier (last week) that you shouldn't ever have a hole in the siphon line, and ideally this is still the case. So I guess my recommendation would be to plumb it right (i.e. read this thread) and then occlude the siphon line hole. As for the OC hole vs JG fitting + airline, the latter is probably the best way to do it, but the former IMO also can work very well - the OC hole, when in balanced operation, will be above the water line, so aside from salt creep, it should stay clear.

BeanAnimal · Nov 12, 2016

Correct, staying above the water line prevents it from getting covered up and makes it adjustable as well as prevents it from acting like a small amplifier for the water running down the OC.

The takeaway (as always) is that there are plenty of valid (safe and efficient) methods to drain water from an aquarium. There are plenty of changes or modifications that can be made to this (or any system) to enhance performance or simplify the design without sacrificing function. The goal here was to present a design that could be easily implemented and work on almost any system without changes or the need for trial and error.

The fact that almost every issue solved in this thread is solved by applying the basic design principles to a system that did not adhere to them in the first place is a fitting testament to the design.

Thanks (as always) to those if you who have devoted so much time to helping others understand this system and the design philosophy.

saf1 · Nov 13, 2016

May have been asked a milling times in this thread already but is there a reasonable or recommended adjustable ball valve.

I must say I was a bit taken aback when I saw the variance of pricing. Figured maybe there is a go-to manufacture or brand that is durable for reefkeeping. Hoping to get plumbing a bit more solid this go around with no salt creep around bulk heads and fittings.

SGT_York · Nov 14, 2016

Any ball valve will work, but gate valves are just better for siphon lines, with a ball valve you cannot expect to get the siphon flow rate perfect as they are just too difficult to adjust, which could result in infrequent siphoning of the OC pipe, or a higher/ lower flow through the OC than could be accomplished with a gate.

IMO a gate valve is worth the extra few dollars.

Nick James · Dec 12, 2016

Hi,

I am setting up a 220g display. I have yet to drill for my bean animal overflow and I am glad I didn't because I may have come across a better way of doing it. My DT will be in one room, approximately 6 inches from the wall. The sump, everything else will be in the room behind. I originally was trying to determine the best placement of the holes, that would allow ease of access. This would have meant placement on one end of the tank or the other.

That is, until I saw this photo:

My question is, are there drawbacks/ dangers of having the pipe go straight back through the wall for approximately 12" prior to the drop?

The drains will all be 1.5". Thanks in advance

Nick James · Dec 18, 2016

BeanAnimal said:
.

uncleof6 said:
.

Just trying to get your attention for my question in the previous post..

JACOXVIII · Jan 3, 2017

Ok I know you can not mod a B.A but this is what I'm working with. I have a 300 DD with the corner over flows cut out. I made a CtoC straight weir it had to be made in 2 pieces. It has a 1" bulk head to equals the 2 sides ( Might try and cut a second hole). My first plan was to run on the left side 1 full siphon and 1 emergence. On the right side run 1 full siphon and 1 open channel standpipe.
These unfortunately are all 1" plumbing. the sump is directly below/ behind the DT. I could 3 full siphons and 1 emergency modded Herbie. I know this is not optimal but I want it to be better then a stock 300dd. My CtoC is only 3.5" deep so re-drilling the back of the tank for a 1.5" B.A. might not work and is a last resort.

Steveb · Jan 3, 2017

Nick James said:
Hi,

I am setting up a 220g display. I have yet to drill for my bean animal overflow and I am glad I didn't because I may have come across a better way of doing it. My DT will be in one room, approximately 6 inches from the wall. The sump, everything else will be in the room behind. I originally was trying to determine the best placement of the holes, that would allow ease of access. This would have meant placement on one end of the tank or the other.

That is, until I saw this photo:

My question is, are there drawbacks/ dangers of having the pipe go straight back through the wall for approximately 12" prior to the drop?

The drains will all be 1.5". Thanks in advance

that setup belonged to d2mini you can PM him.. I am not sure how long his horizontal run was...

vhuang168 · Jan 10, 2017

Starting to plumb a 190g DT.

Bulkhead sizes in the overflow are 1".

My sump came with 1.5" bulkheads.

I'm currently planning on doing 1.25" piping on all the drain lines.

Is there a potential problem with that?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GQsmooth · Jan 11, 2017

Elricsfate said:
Thank you all for your kind assistance. The reason for the questions is that I actually ordered the 20 in Synergy overflow, which does not come with the U flow connectors. I intended to copy the Shadow's setup in the 20 in, and needed to understand how it should be done.

I truly appreciate your help. This is what makes this hobby great! Hopefully somewhere down the road I'll be one of the "old salts" handing out advice and answering questions.

How did yours turnout? Have any pics? I just received my 20" overflow.

eder10986 · Jan 14, 2017

I have been lurking around this thread and it's wars for months.

A couple of months ago I successfully plumbed my tank with a bean animal system with no expectations.

The only thing we hear is the humming of the return pump and the fan of our ATI/kessils

WATER FLOW DEAD SILENT. It's incredible.

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austinl · Jan 21, 2017

Hey everyone, great thread. Would like some advice from the gurus.

First one is does it look like my stand pipes are too low?

And the more important question is in regards to horizontal runs. I know they are not the best to use. That's said I may have to use them to go through a wall.

If I do have to use them this is what I would have to do.

From the bottom of the overflow box there would be a 7" drop to a 90 followed by a 1' horizontal run back to a 90 then a 2' drop to the sump.

I look forward to hearing from you guys, thanks in advance!

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Aquamechanic · Jan 21, 2017

In case it lends some insight.

I set up a 135-gallon 32" tall corner tank for a client in their living room. The plumbing was installed during a whole home reno into the floor joist and travels 25' horizontally before turning 90 degrees along a wall then 90 degrees into the top of the sump. Total drop from B.A. output is about 8'-9'
It is all plumbed with 1" (drains) and 1.5" (return) from a Sicce 16HF

The setup runs silently. I do not hear water flowing through walls/ ceilings in basement, and with a piece of braided flex tubing between the pump and the rigid return line, there is no resonance to be heard either.

I am now working on a 350 reef that will be setup similarly. This one will drop 12 feet and be about 40' from the aquarium to the sump.

Elwood P. Dowd · Jan 24, 2017

I'm not sure how much I'll participate on the forums. I'll probably lurk a ton.but I had to say this to the folks who share their knowledge of the bean animal drain system.

THANK YOU!!!!!
Thank you Bean, uncleof6, everyone who shared their experiences, and every person who asked a "stupid" question. After reading this thread and the original, then readings beans website, I successfully implemented this system. It's fantastic. Stone silent and moves every bit of water I can ask it to.

I am right now working up the courage to close off my siphon and make sure the back ups do their job. It's not a massive aquarium. 40 breeder with a 20 long sump. It's plumbed in on one end olny. Peninsula style. 40 gallons is all the condo association will allow.

Once again, THANK YOU!!!!!

Elwood P. Dowd · Jan 24, 2017

Ignore my typos in the previous post please &#55357;&#56838;

Works as advertised. Each and every drain do what they are supposed to, when they are supposed to. After power shut down it comes back to life in about 30 seconds. It is really nice having my pump be the limiting factor in my tank versus the drain being the limiting factor. Having a backup to the backup is also quite nice. That was a huge concern for me. I live in a second floor condo.......

Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

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