Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[meegwell]

I have been lurking around this thread and it's wars for months.

A couple of months ago I successfully plumbed my tank with a bean animal system with no expectations.

The only thing we hear is the humming of the return pump and the fan of our ATI/kessils

WATER FLOW DEAD SILENT. It's incredible.

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As someone who learned so much from the bean animal thread, and built my own silent sweet coast to coast setup years ago - it is very nice to check back in here and see that the subject is alive and well and people are still innovating. I particularly like the bacon rug rolled up in the background.

 

[vhuang168]

I have my gate valve on the main drain mounted vertically right now. But because I mounted it vertically I had to run 90deg elbows.

Can I install the gate valve on a 45deg pipe instead?


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[Syntax1325]

What a great thread! I used the information here almost three years ago to build my 125 gallon bean animal overflow with internal overflow box. I'm now in the process of planning my 180 gallon build using a Modular Marine external overflow box with a slim internal surface skimmer. A couple questions:

1) The design require two holes to be drilled in the tank to connect the internal surface skimmer box to the external box that has the drains plumbed through the bottom of that box. The holes need to accommodate two 2 inch bulkheads to allow water into the business side of the overflow system. Any advice on exactly where to drill these rather large holes... I believe I will need to drill at least a 2.75" hole for each bulkhead.

2) is there any concern that the use of an external box will lead to a flood? Will the system purge itself fast enough before the height of the water in the external box overflows? I guess as long as the emergency siphon is about .75" below the top of the external box I shouldn't have a problem... still makes me nervous!

3) The box I'm going to purchase uses 1.5" bulkheads for the three drains. This seems a little excessive to me; however, I don't think I would need to worry about flow restriction of any sort. I'm using a Reeflo Snapper and I'll be pushing around 1300 gph. The box I'm purchasing is rated for 1800gph... here it is: http://modularmarine.com/collection...box-bulkhead-mounted-aquarium-surface-skimmer


Thoughts? Comments? Thanks.

 

[Adamc1303]

Must the exhaust of the secondary drain be submerged underwater? I ask because I currently have it this way but want to know if I can plumb it to a Theiling Roller Mat without having any issues.


Thanks,

Adam

 

[Syntax1325]

Must the exhaust of the secondary drain be submerged underwater? I ask because I currently have it this way but want to know if I can plumb it to a Theiling Roller Mat without having any issues.


Thanks,

Adam

Yes. It must be underwater in the sump (same depth as primary) in order to create a full siphon if the primary fails to function for some reason.


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[Adamc1303]

Does it only have to be underwater to create a full siphon if the primary fails? I am not too worried about that because I still have the dry line too.

 

[mjr1]

Is it possible to rig a bean animal for variable flow? I upgraded my pump and can now slow the return to the main tank for feeding, but if I do this with the bean animal it causes the siphon to break and suck air. Once the pump goes back to normal speed the overflow adjust itself back to silent, but I am wondering if there are any techniques to accommodate a variable flow on a bean animal.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Is it possible to rig a bean animal for variable flow? I upgraded my pump and can now slow the return to the main tank for feeding, but if I do this with the bean animal it causes the siphon to break and suck air. Once the pump goes back to normal speed the overflow adjust itself back to silent, but I am wondering if there are any techniques to accommodate a variable flow on a bean animal.

Thanks in advance.

I don't know that modding is needed. I have my return pump and PH on the same switch. I kill both and when they come back on it takes about 30 seconds for the BA to get a siphon and be right back at silent.

it seems to me that if you installed a 4th down pipe for a feeding time flow that would work. but both your full siphon and feeding time would require gate valves to adjust for the trickle on your open pipe. They would also both need a ball valve so that you could shut the flow off on them. IE... at feeding time, completely open the 4th pipe/feeding time siphon and completely close the main full siphon, but not changing the adjustment on either gate valve. does that make sense?

after feeding, close the ball valve on the feeding siphon and open the valve on the main siphon. seems like over kill to me

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

I suspect there is another thread on RC about "Modified BA systems". I cannot remember exactly where but I know I saw it mentioned somewhere on this thread. where though is a guess. I read every last page in this thread.

 

[pweissma]

Is it possible to rig a bean animal for variable flow? I upgraded my pump and can now slow the return to the main tank for feeding, but if I do this with the bean animal it causes the siphon to break and suck air. Once the pump goes back to normal speed the overflow adjust itself back to silent, but I am wondering if there are any techniques to accommodate a variable flow on a bean animal.



Thanks in advance.

It is easiest to just turn off your return pump during feed as that would be silent.

But you might try slowing your return pump during feed to the point where your siphon would operate like the open channel. The problem though is that you would need to get rid a downward turned opening on the siphon which could create problems with a vortex forming on the siphon.



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[saf1]

Quick question, I hope, regarding the emergency drain. My overflow is 22" wide and has 5 pre-drilled holes. Outside holes are 1" bulkhead and the 3 in the middle are all 1.5". Using 1.5" piping is not allowing the traditional BA style of sanitary tee's with elbows due to lack of space. Got crowded real quick.

Can the emergency overflow be open without a elbow or in a worse case scenario just a straight pipe 1.5"?

I guess another option would be to reduce down to 1" piping for better fit and do it properly. I don't need that much flow anyway in a soft coral and LPS tank but was just going to plumb it with what it has in case down the road I change corals or tank bio-type.

 

[awais98]

So Ive set up my brandnew 240G with a reefsavvy ghost box with bean animal overflow.



Iv have the full siphon and the open channel with airline, made into a 'n' shape using 2 elbows, where as the emergency drain is a simple vertical pipe, higher than the other two.



The drop from the overflow to the sump is only about a feet vertically, but is atleast 8-10 feet horizontally. Sump is in the sump room, on a stand. It cannot be changed.



Now when I start the return pump.... the water in the overflow box uses the open channel mainly, and then frequently water rises and uses the emergency drain and then the level goes down, BUT the full siphon BARELY FLOWS.

I have no idea why. Maybe air is trapping in it initially? or maybe Is it coz of the small veritcal drop, that the wayer cannot makes it way through the 'n'.



Its been running without manipulating for past 12 hours, exact same thing.

No changes.





What can I do?:deadhorse:

Do I remove the 'n' from the full channel and let it be a tiny vertical pipe lower then the other two and see?

( ofcourse currently the full siphon gate valve is fully open)



I want it to run normally. I also want to increase the flow from the return line more, currently a ball valve has kept it probably around 30-40% flow.

I want it to run smoothly and restart smoothly if power over goes.



Please give your suggestions.



Thank you.


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[Scuba_Steve]

Can someone please show me some low flow BAs?

I will have a DT that is just under 15g. Overflow will be internal coast to coast and 18" wide. Flow will be under 300gph.

What size pipe should I use, and how wide/deep should I make my overflow?

 

[rocking]

Is it ok to run

Is it ok to run

Is it OK to run a trickle filter down to a a been stanchion overflow system ? What I have is a 35g truv reaf ready tank made 15 years ago and it has the built-in trickle filter at the bottom of this filter is where I want to put the bean animal flow system in place going into a 27 gallon sump holding A eppo 150 protein skimmer along with GFO bio pellets and LR this tank will be turning over at 32 times an hour

 

[saf1]

Looking back at Beans instruction and outline on his site I see that he had 1.5" bulkheads but reduced to 1".

"All of the standpipes are built with 1.5" PVC fittings (adapted to the 1" bulkhead with a bushing). I worked with the 1" bulkheads that I had, but larger bulkheads are perfectly suitable"

With that being said mine are similar at 1.5". Due to space within the overflow I think I'm going to go ahead and drop down to 1" has well. Since it appears his is working correctly and designed that way I think it will make more sense so spacing and fitting is proper. I think I answered my own question I posted above

 

[uncleof6]

Does it only have to be underwater to create a full siphon if the primary fails? I am not too worried about that because I still have the dry line too.

Don't be lured in by improper implementations of this system. They do not work as this system is supposed to, and you should always have a concerns about ANY of the three lines failing. Bean and I both have had two lines fail at the same time. Run enough of these system and it WILL happen to you, or the odds could fall against you, and it will happen with just the single system you are running.

Whether or not the outlets are submerged is up to you; however, if both the siphon and open channel do not terminate in the same body of water, the system cannot be expected to function properly. This has been made very clear many many times.

Running any of the drain lines over roller mats, reactors. through a skimmer, or any other type of equipment, is NOT "lines terminating in the same body of water." This will cause the system to not function properly. There is an intimate interaction between the siphon and open channel, and doing the above alters the physics of the system, and alters the interaction between the two drain lines. Also, when properly adjusted, there is not enough flow in the open channel to feed any auxiliary equipment in an efficient and effective manner. The dry emergency outlet location is not a concern, so long as it drains the overflow box in siphon mode, when needed. It makes no sense to run the dry emergency through another piece of equipment, as in normal operation, there will be no flow in it.

It is a poor practice to feed any type of equipment (other than a sump,) including a skimmer, with any type of drain line, as drain lines are mission critical components of the system. If you have a piece of equipment that is just too tempting to run off a drain line, but you just don't want to run another pump, consider running it on a branch from the main return line (up sizing the return pump accordingly,) or just eliminate that piece of equipment--you probably don't need it anyway.

I understand that BRS is running one of the drain lines over a roller mat. This is an improper implementation of the system, and it cannot be expected to function properly. There are only two reliable sources of information on this drain system: The main BA thread (a long read), and Bean's website. These are the only places you will be certain to find someone that actually knows how this system is supposed to work, and how to get it to do so.

 

[Ted_C]

I'd like to see if I could get some advice / validation on a design idea I have and some issues I'm currently having.

My build is a 310 gallon display with a beananimal design. I am currently running two Waveline DC 12000 as my returns. I have a coast to coast low profile internal overflow plumbed through the tank to an external overflow box which I'm draining back into the sump.

I've tried the straight beananimal setup and I'm getting too much flow going through my open channel - which is causing some noise that's aggravating. Part of this is I can't put any more flow through the siphon because of the height of the overflow box.

Here are my ideas on how to rectify:
Full Siphon - replace the plumbing to get it lower in the overflow box.
Open Channel - increase the height in the box and cut some holes in the external overflow box lid to make it fit.
4th channel: install a gate valve in an additional drain pipe that allows a controlled "trickle" so I can adjust the flow entering the open channel.

this is really the only pic I can provide of what I'm working with:

 

[Rybren]

Are you saying that with the valve on the siphon wide open, there is too much flow for it to handle so a lot of it is going through the open channel?

If this is the case, then the only 2 options that I can thing of are:

a. Change the siphon pipe to something larger (would be hard to do as the smaller bulkhead will still limit flow), or

b. Reduce the flow from the returns.

Why are you running two return pumps?

 

[Ted_C]

opening the siphon lets air into the siphon. The height of the siphon and the height of the open channel are near identical (the open channel is 1/4" higher in the box).

 

[Rybren]

The height of the open channel and siphon seem fine.

To tune the BA, you first start with the valve on the Siphon wide open. Then you slowly start closing it until the water level in the overflow box rises until it is approximately at the middle of the Siphon elbow. Let the system settle down.

If the Siphon can't purge the air, then close the valve a bit more then observe.

If the open channel has too many bubbles coming out of it in the sump, then open the valve a bit and observe.

It will take some tweaking of the valve to find the sweet spot. But once you find it, then you likely won't have to adjust it again.