Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
And the left overflow is the dual one?
I'd use that one for the full siphon and emergency, and make the open-channel the 6-7ft one.
no problem.
Some other considerations, because this isn't really a "proper" bean animal due to the separate weirs, you will want to likely have some spare PVC on hand to make a few various length standpipes for the open channel and emergency pipes. I would probably start high and cut them down as needed.
For the siphon, you should just make it 6" below the water surface and stick a strainer on top. Like a herbie would be. You should basically close the siphon valve until you get some trickle into the opposing weir's open channel standpipe. At that point, you can figure out where the emergency should be, which should be slightly above all that.
Basically, the siphon/emergency side should look something like this, although probably with the emergency set a little higher, as you will have the open channel set somewhere between the two in the other weir:
http://gmacreef.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/herbie-overflow-diagram-gmacreef-v11.jpg
I'd purposely set the emergency way high at first, then figure out the open channel height by dialing in the siphon, and starting/stopping the system numerous times and experimenting, basically you need figure out what height runs it most quietly on the open channel side, then once that's all set, you can probably place the emergency a little above that, and call it good. I'd probably want a half inch leeway but you need enough height above the emergency so that it can actually take flow if need be.
m0nkie
Well-known member
awesome. I'll try that out. the strainer looks like a good idea to save some room. Wish I can put a Maggie Muffler, but they don't make 2" ones.
does the position of the gate valve affect water noise? Having it right below the bulkhead vs right above the sump? If above the sump, 1 pipe would be running 6-7ft horizontally before dropping 1ft into sump.
does the position of the gate valve affect water noise? Having it right below the bulkhead vs right above the sump? If above the sump, 1 pipe would be running 6-7ft horizontally before dropping 1ft into sump.
That's why I was suggesting you put the open channel on the right side (the one you have a 6-7ft run on) as the open channel does not need a valve and won't typically need much flow rate, so the horizontal probably won't hurt it. Only the siphon line needs a valve.
I would advise using 45's and trying to make it more of a diagonal run than a horizontal, as a 6-7ft horizontal will definitely not flow as well. However, as the open channel, it should be OK, since you'll still have the siphon and emergency with shorter runs. It may struggle to ever become a full siphon in an emergency situation though, so all this should be tested for various failure scenarios to make sure the combination of the emergency + open channel can still handle your flow rate, or even if just the emergency by itself can handle it.
personally i like it as close to the sump as possible, although i've done it both ways and haven't had issues with either. It was more about accessibility and space, on my 120g which has a ghost style overflow, it really had to be above the sump due to height constraints, on my 60g, which is bottom drilled, it pretty much had to be below the tank, because of the fact it's bottom drilled. Sometimes you don't get a choice!
my rationale for having it closer to the sump is that essentially when you close the valve, that tube is going to fill up with water, and I figure having more pressure behind the valve will mean it purges air better or something, in practice i haven't noticed a difference though.
uncleof6
Active member
What has been suggested to you, will not work the way a BA system is supposed to work. NOTE: I said it will not work the way a BA system is supposed to work. Will it drain water? Anything will drain water.
A BA system is not recommended for a tank with dual corner overflows, without a great deal of modifications to the tank configuration. The reason it is not recommended is due to the interaction between the siphon and the open channel, which will not occur--unless the siphon and open channel are in the same body of water. One in the overflow on the left, and the other in the overflow on the right, does not constitute being in the same body of water. Bean has stated this, I have stated it, and others have picked up on it and stated it also.
We went round and round about this several years ago, and pretty much decided (collectively) it is best not to run this system in a tank with dual corner overflows, unless you are ok with one overflow being shut down, or you simply do not care really how it operates so long as it simply drains water. It does not seem to make much sense to go to the trouble to use the three standpipes, and not make the system work the way it is supposed to work. You can drain water with a durso, a Herbie, a two pipe siphon system, gurgle buster or what have you; and you can run a dual herbie (which has a few issues) with the return over the back.
this place is freaking out of control.
tell this guy not to start getting into everyones face and calling every thing wrong every time a question is posted about plumbing system. he's condescending as hell.
i'm sorry bud, but if this guy gets free reign to **** all over people in plumbing threads constantly, and i've had numerous conversations in private with others similarly frustrated with him, and you'll sit here and take his side? this place is such a joke sometimes.
you wouldn't have been having to warn me not to call the lynch mob out as the BA police if this sort of condescending opinion hadn't been let to run rampant in the first place.
getting involved now is beyond late, imho. and by blaming me, you are simply shooting the messenger. I am only one of many frustrated by this behavior.
I would expect facts and truths to be upheld over opinion. Opinions represented as facts are still not facts, and there are some who behave this way and expect no one to question them on it. Both times you've run into me now, they've been times where I called someone out representing their opinions unjustly as truths, and you've taken their side over mine. I'm not going to read into it any more than that, other than you're not making me feel very good about this place.
And you know what? If they are offended...They should be!
http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures...-should-be-offended-linus-torvalds-273584.jpg
tell this guy not to start getting into everyones face and calling every thing wrong every time a question is posted about plumbing system. he's condescending as hell.
i'm sorry bud, but if this guy gets free reign to **** all over people in plumbing threads constantly, and i've had numerous conversations in private with others similarly frustrated with him, and you'll sit here and take his side? this place is such a joke sometimes.
you wouldn't have been having to warn me not to call the lynch mob out as the BA police if this sort of condescending opinion hadn't been let to run rampant in the first place.
getting involved now is beyond late, imho. and by blaming me, you are simply shooting the messenger. I am only one of many frustrated by this behavior.
I would expect facts and truths to be upheld over opinion. Opinions represented as facts are still not facts, and there are some who behave this way and expect no one to question them on it. Both times you've run into me now, they've been times where I called someone out representing their opinions unjustly as truths, and you've taken their side over mine. I'm not going to read into it any more than that, other than you're not making me feel very good about this place.
And you know what? If they are offended...They should be!
http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures...-should-be-offended-linus-torvalds-273584.jpg
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Please Jason, i'd rather you not get involved as well. Plus, you clearly aren't really willing to talk to me in private anymore, and I really don't want to drag this out anymore than it has to in public.
The problem isn't that there isn't any useful information there, the problem is the absolutist attitude he takes with others. He even helped me out with my 60 cube one time, and I did appreciate that advice, but it makes no sense to treat it as if everyone else's opinions are wrong because it doesn't follow a 3d diagram of a bean animal to a Tee (pun intended?). It's downright condescending at times, and for me to be taking punches for calling him out on this behavior is well, downright insulting to me, and quite honestly, if the mods would have been paying attention would have told him to tame that attitude long ago, but i feel like apparently seniority rules around here and truth, honesty, and facts are given a backseat to that.
And let's not even get into the tape thing. There was an entire thread he dragged out the whole "use sealant no matter what" thing and it turned out the guy had a bum fitting and it wasn't teflon nor sealant nor this other red herring he kept throwing around that was the problem....now you'll see one of the newer threads where someone had a similar problem, both of us suggested hey check the fitting first, try one from another brand, lol. Lesson learned for both of us at least, but running around like a chicken with it's head cut off repeating the same schpeal about sealant over and over again wasn't helping anyone at that point when the fittings simply were faulty or from two mis-matched brands and just didn't for the life of them create a proper seal regardless of what substance was put between them.
Meanwhile, i know people in real life who do commercial aquariums and custom builds and have used teflon for the past 30+ yrs with no dramatic effect, and I trust those people way more than anyone from this forum. It's not that it won't work, it's that you need to know the proper technique and also when to just accept okay these two fittings are basically shot, i mean so much of this stuff is "well, does it work?" If not, try again. I think most people realize that some of these viewpoints are over the top and take it with a grain of salt.
I'd been avoiding that argument with him for a long time, but, since you went there.
i think at some point it ceases being helpful and unnecessary sends people down red herring after red herring. Not everyone wants to cut everything apart and start over, some people wanna know "how can i make this work" and i just see this belligerence towards anything other than this sort of "start all over and do it my way" prescription. It doesn't matter to most reefers whether it's "technically a bean animal" as long as it works safely enough, at some point it all just starts sounding silly.
I don't know, i feel like this absolutist attitude just sucks all the fun out of the hobby for me, that's the honest truth. Half the fun for me is experimenting and coming up with things, not always having to follow some straight and narrow formula is really all what it's about. People are coming up with new stuff all the time, new technology, new pumps, new techniques for all kinds of things, there is no reason plumbing has to be some off-limits thing in regards to innovations or modifications, and ultimately I will always tell people to experiment and test before I tell them to cut it all apart and start over.
Dude, what kind of attitude is that? I feel like you just pulled plumbing equivalent of "Yeah, and you can go back to your home country."
The problem isn't limited to this thread, and half the people in this thread ARE asking about doing a modified bean animal. So maybe you should go tell all them to start their own threads?
this technicality of a "bean animal vs modified bean animal" is the whole fallacy i'm calling out in the first place, the point is, no one really cares except the "BA Police", and i have honestly no choice but to continue using that term until the behavior stops, because i don't really know what to call it anymore. This obsession with terminology is helping no one.
I think i've reached my bigot quota for the day.
jason2459
Well-known member
I can ask the same thing from you. But I've already learned you have a very aggressive attitude ready to argue and jump down someones throat.
Why I ceased communicating via PM with you. You have no etiquette or ability to say, I'm sorry or I was wrong.
First of all, why are you starting with me again? You clearly have some unresolved beef, if you want to talk to me, then talk to me, but don't run to the mods because you got called out for posting misinformation on the internet and didn't like it, then clearly, continue to hold a grudge afterwards.
Your original argument with me was because you kept posting negative stuff about products in product review threads for products you don't even own. I even recently saw other people call you out on that EXACT same thing and you were all like "oh let's not go down that road again" so clearly it's not just me who's seen you do this.
Why should I be sorry? Clearly you're upset over the fact I called you out on it. If you honestly had no guilt in this matter, then I don't see why you'd still be so upset, but the fact you're upset is good, you should be, and you should learn from it.
I'm sorry, but all this is exactly the kind of fun-sucking attitudes i've been talking about. This sort of stuff just doesn't make the hobby fun for anyone. Most people just want some answers, not being told to throw it all out, not wishful speculations about products you don't own like a buncha virgins talking about sex.
If you want to talk to me, please, by all means, PM me some form of contact outside the forums and we can chat, and you can choose to block me whenever you like, but I'm not making the mistake of talking to you anymore on here.
I'm not the kind of person to block someone, and I don't really intend anything I say to be taken personally, I'm just frustrated by these extremist attitudes, and this situation is really nothing to do with your beef with me Jason, so, I really would appreciate if you just stay out of it, or message me in private.
jason2459
Well-known member
To be clear, I posted my concerns for the safety of others and questions to be answered by a manufacturer to explain their product's specifications.
I also posted requests for features of a product while the product was still being developed which is a perfect time to request options.
Also, the thing is huge. That is fact a fact that doesn't need one to own one to see. That was the only major negative thing I said against it that was my opinion and stated so.
I spend a lot of my time and money to experiment and learn about different products that I would hope can help everyone.
You do like to twist things. All I made was one comment stating I appreciate uncleof6's participation. Nothing against you.
Edit: and no I will not deal with you in PM anymore. The way you go about things amounts to online bullying
Good luck and happy reefing.
I also posted requests for features of a product while the product was still being developed which is a perfect time to request options.
Also, the thing is huge. That is fact a fact that doesn't need one to own one to see. That was the only major negative thing I said against it that was my opinion and stated so.
I spend a lot of my time and money to experiment and learn about different products that I would hope can help everyone.
You do like to twist things. All I made was one comment stating I appreciate uncleof6's participation. Nothing against you.
Edit: and no I will not deal with you in PM anymore. The way you go about things amounts to online bullying
Good luck and happy reefing.
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Actually, you did have a choice. Now you do not (at least until you rejoin under another name to spread more charm).
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
People take things way too personally man...it's plumbing.
jason2459
Well-known member
Totally agree. There will most definitely be disagreements on how things are done and multiple ways to do get to an end result. That applies to many things. Getting all worked up over it doesn't help.
rtparty
Raise The Reef!
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