rwgarrison
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Something like this...
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
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Coach Sharp
New member
Beananimal Overflow Setup: Can I use 4 Pipes vs. 3?
Beananimal Overflow Setup: Can I use 4 Pipes vs. 3?
I'm in the process of designing a 250 gallon half-cylinder saltwater FOWLR acrylic tank and considering the Coast to Coast Overflow Box and the BeanAnimal standpipe design. My sump/refugium will be through the wall in an adjacent mechanical room. I have a couple of questions related to the BeanAnimal Standpipe setup:
Looks like th BeanAnimal design requires 3 holes in the overflow box vs. the standard two.
I'm wondering if it would be ok to modify that a bit as I'd like to maximize the turnover in the tank by using two full-siphon standpipes to feed the sump. So, here's what I'm thinking:
Drill (4) 1.5" holes in the back of the "L-shaped" overflow box. I was thinking of a box that stretches maybe 36" across the top/back/inside of the tank. (Tank is 7' long and I'll have two 1" return holes drilled in upper left and right corners. I was thinking about an overflow box about 6" wide and maybe 6" deep (is that deep enough for the downward facing /submerged elbows?) Box needs to be wide enough to accommodate Schedule 80 bulkheads with the Street Elbow inserts....and deep enough for the suction elbows to be submerged in the overflow box.
Hole #1: Full suction elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #2: Full suction elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #3: Open channel with airline...elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #4: Emergency Standpipe pointed upwards in overflow box....little higher than the other three elbows? Or can it be drilled at same height since the elbow is pointed up?
I would plumb all the BeanAnimal valves and T's on the other side of the wall in my mechanical room....with only the elbows inside the overflow box of the tank.
Questions:
Is it ok to have 2 full siphon drains vs. the 1...along with one open channel and one emergency standpipe?
Thoughts about the size of my overflow box above?
How far below the bottom edge of the overflow wier should I plan to drill my holes for the standpipe street elbows inserted into my Schedule 80 1.5" bulkheads? Any rules of thumb for how far below the wier, or how far below
the top edge of the tank, to drill the holes?
Thanks everyone. Been out of the saltwater hobby for about 17 years while coaching baseball and raising kids. A lot has changed! Excited to get back into it. But I have a lot of learn.
Appreciate any advice any of you might have.
Beananimal Overflow Setup: Can I use 4 Pipes vs. 3?
I'm in the process of designing a 250 gallon half-cylinder saltwater FOWLR acrylic tank and considering the Coast to Coast Overflow Box and the BeanAnimal standpipe design. My sump/refugium will be through the wall in an adjacent mechanical room. I have a couple of questions related to the BeanAnimal Standpipe setup:
Looks like th BeanAnimal design requires 3 holes in the overflow box vs. the standard two.
I'm wondering if it would be ok to modify that a bit as I'd like to maximize the turnover in the tank by using two full-siphon standpipes to feed the sump. So, here's what I'm thinking:
Drill (4) 1.5" holes in the back of the "L-shaped" overflow box. I was thinking of a box that stretches maybe 36" across the top/back/inside of the tank. (Tank is 7' long and I'll have two 1" return holes drilled in upper left and right corners. I was thinking about an overflow box about 6" wide and maybe 6" deep (is that deep enough for the downward facing /submerged elbows?) Box needs to be wide enough to accommodate Schedule 80 bulkheads with the Street Elbow inserts....and deep enough for the suction elbows to be submerged in the overflow box.
Hole #1: Full suction elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #2: Full suction elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #3: Open channel with airline...elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #4: Emergency Standpipe pointed upwards in overflow box....little higher than the other three elbows? Or can it be drilled at same height since the elbow is pointed up?
I would plumb all the BeanAnimal valves and T's on the other side of the wall in my mechanical room....with only the elbows inside the overflow box of the tank.
Questions:
Is it ok to have 2 full siphon drains vs. the 1...along with one open channel and one emergency standpipe?
Thoughts about the size of my overflow box above?
How far below the bottom edge of the overflow wier should I plan to drill my holes for the standpipe street elbows inserted into my Schedule 80 1.5" bulkheads? Any rules of thumb for how far below the wier, or how far below
the top edge of the tank, to drill the holes?
Thanks everyone. Been out of the saltwater hobby for about 17 years while coaching baseball and raising kids. A lot has changed! Excited to get back into it. But I have a lot of learn.
Appreciate any advice any of you might have.
Coach Sharp
New member
Beananimal Overflow Setup: Can I use 4 Pipes vs. 3?
Beananimal Overflow Setup: Can I use 4 Pipes vs. 3?
I'm in the process of designing a 250 gallon half-cylinder saltwater FOWLR acrylic tank and considering the Coast to Coast Overflow Box and the BeanAnimal standpipe design. My sump/refugium will be through the wall in an adjacent mechanical room. I have a couple of questions related to the BeanAnimal Standpipe setup:
Looks like th BeanAnimal design requires 3 holes in the overflow box vs. the standard two.
I'm wondering if it would be ok to modify that a bit as I'd like to maximize the turnover in the tank by using two full-siphon standpipes to feed the sump. So, here's what I'm thinking:
Drill (4) 1.5" holes in the back of the "L-shaped" overflow box. I was thinking of a box that stretches maybe 36" across the top/back/inside of the tank. (Tank is 7' long and I'll have two 1" return holes drilled in upper left and right corners. I was thinking about an overflow box about 6" wide and maybe 6" deep (is that deep enough for the downward facing /submerged elbows?) Box needs to be wide enough to accommodate Schedule 80 bulkheads with the Street Elbow inserts....and deep enough for the suction elbows to be submerged in the overflow box.
Hole #1: Full suction elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #2: Full suction elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #3: Open channel with airline...elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #4: Emergency Standpipe pointed upwards in overflow box....little higher than the other three elbows? Or can it be drilled at same height since the elbow is pointed up?
I would plumb all the BeanAnimal valves and T's on the other side of the wall in my mechanical room....with only the elbows inside the overflow box of the tank.
Questions:
Is it ok to have 2 full siphon drains vs. the 1...along with one open channel and one emergency standpipe?
Thoughts about the size of my overflow box above?
How far below the bottom edge of the overflow wier should I plan to drill my holes for the standpipe street elbows inserted into my Schedule 80 1.5" bulkheads? Any rules of thumb for how far below the wier, or how far below
the top edge of the tank, to drill the holes?
Thanks everyone. Been out of the saltwater hobby for about 17 years while coaching baseball and raising kids. A lot has changed! Excited to get back into it. But I have a lot of learn.
Appreciate any advice any of you might have.
Beananimal Overflow Setup: Can I use 4 Pipes vs. 3?
I'm in the process of designing a 250 gallon half-cylinder saltwater FOWLR acrylic tank and considering the Coast to Coast Overflow Box and the BeanAnimal standpipe design. My sump/refugium will be through the wall in an adjacent mechanical room. I have a couple of questions related to the BeanAnimal Standpipe setup:
Looks like th BeanAnimal design requires 3 holes in the overflow box vs. the standard two.
I'm wondering if it would be ok to modify that a bit as I'd like to maximize the turnover in the tank by using two full-siphon standpipes to feed the sump. So, here's what I'm thinking:
Drill (4) 1.5" holes in the back of the "L-shaped" overflow box. I was thinking of a box that stretches maybe 36" across the top/back/inside of the tank. (Tank is 7' long and I'll have two 1" return holes drilled in upper left and right corners. I was thinking about an overflow box about 6" wide and maybe 6" deep (is that deep enough for the downward facing /submerged elbows?) Box needs to be wide enough to accommodate Schedule 80 bulkheads with the Street Elbow inserts....and deep enough for the suction elbows to be submerged in the overflow box.
Hole #1: Full suction elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #2: Full suction elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #3: Open channel with airline...elbow pointed down into overflow box
Hole #4: Emergency Standpipe pointed upwards in overflow box....little higher than the other three elbows? Or can it be drilled at same height since the elbow is pointed up?
I would plumb all the BeanAnimal valves and T's on the other side of the wall in my mechanical room....with only the elbows inside the overflow box of the tank.
Questions:
Is it ok to have 2 full siphon drains vs. the 1...along with one open channel and one emergency standpipe?
Thoughts about the size of my overflow box above?
How far below the bottom edge of the overflow wier should I plan to drill my holes for the standpipe street elbows inserted into my Schedule 80 1.5" bulkheads? Any rules of thumb for how far below the wier, or how far below
the top edge of the tank, to drill the holes?
Thanks everyone. Been out of the saltwater hobby for about 17 years while coaching baseball and raising kids. A lot has changed! Excited to get back into it. But I have a lot of learn.
Appreciate any advice any of you might have.
sleepydoc
Team RC
The size of your overflow box will depend on the size of your plumbing. Figure that out first. As to where you should drill, For glass you should be at least 1 hole diameter from the nearest edge. I don't know if there's a guideline for acrylic - I'd post a separate question and ask some of the people with more acrylic experience. Also, make sure you leave enough room between the vertical wall of the overflow box and the fitting to get your fingers/hands in to clean.
Why are you using schedule 80 bulkheads? In general they don't add anything for our purposes other than cost, larger hole sizes and lower flows (d/t smaller internal diameter.)
How much flow are you planning on having? A 1" siphon dropping 4 feet will be pushing 2000 gph, depending on the plumbing. A 1.25" siphon can likely do close to 4000 gph. I'm having a hard time believing that you actually need 2 full siphons. Another issue with 2 siphons is that if the flow is too low they will have a hard time purging the air at startup.
Adding a 2nd full siphon will likely just add complexity, but you could theoretically do it - put gate valves on both to allow for adjustments and/or to turn one off when the flow is too high for the return to keep up.
Below is a drawing of the overflow for my 120 FWIW...
Why are you using schedule 80 bulkheads? In general they don't add anything for our purposes other than cost, larger hole sizes and lower flows (d/t smaller internal diameter.)
How much flow are you planning on having? A 1" siphon dropping 4 feet will be pushing 2000 gph, depending on the plumbing. A 1.25" siphon can likely do close to 4000 gph. I'm having a hard time believing that you actually need 2 full siphons. Another issue with 2 siphons is that if the flow is too low they will have a hard time purging the air at startup.
Adding a 2nd full siphon will likely just add complexity, but you could theoretically do it - put gate valves on both to allow for adjustments and/or to turn one off when the flow is too high for the return to keep up.
Below is a drawing of the overflow for my 120 FWIW...
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Internal and External Overflows
Internal and External Overflows
I am in the process of having a 180 gallon 6 foot aquarium built and wanted to incorporate a beananimal system. I have been reading through the threads and have a couple of questions. Is the back glass the best place to build the internal weir and external overflow or can you use the side.
What are best dimensions to use for the internal weir and external overflow box. My plan is to have the internal weir built coast to coast along side pane or almost coast to coast if using the the back pane. The water would enter the external overflow box which I am also having built via 3 holes in the back or side glass. I plan to 1.5 inch bulkheads and PVC piping which flows down to my sump.
As I having everything built from scratch including the sump I wanted to incorporate best practices so any guidance would be appreciated.
Internal and External Overflows
I am in the process of having a 180 gallon 6 foot aquarium built and wanted to incorporate a beananimal system. I have been reading through the threads and have a couple of questions. Is the back glass the best place to build the internal weir and external overflow or can you use the side.
What are best dimensions to use for the internal weir and external overflow box. My plan is to have the internal weir built coast to coast along side pane or almost coast to coast if using the the back pane. The water would enter the external overflow box which I am also having built via 3 holes in the back or side glass. I plan to 1.5 inch bulkheads and PVC piping which flows down to my sump.
As I having everything built from scratch including the sump I wanted to incorporate best practices so any guidance would be appreciated.
As far as drilling bulkhead holes in acrylic the answer theoretically is as close as you want provided you have room to work. I prefer schedule 80 because of beefiness of bulkhead and the added cost is negligible in my opinion. I surely wouldn't use schedule 40 if I was drilling the bottom of my tank for a closed loop as well.
The other post the overflow position in my opinion depends how the tank will be setup.
The other post the overflow position in my opinion depends how the tank will be setup.
Looks like a flood waiting to happen to me. But folks are doing their own thing, deviating from the design, and they are welcome to do so. We cannot test each idea that comes along for flaws and possible issues. We would spend all our time testing these concepts and have no time for anything else.
The box is too small to start with. This type of system (internal/external) was designed 5 years ago. The basic layout and dimensions have been published in this thread several times. It was intended for a rimless tank, that has an external box that is 8.5" tall, and even with the top of the tank. There are no bulkheads between the internal and external. The system worked flawlessly. After all the fabrication work that went into it, the results where not worth the effort required to get there, and had I to do it all over again, I would not have bothered. It just is not worth it, and the goal (to save a couple inches at the top inside the tank) is rather ridiculous. In a nano tank where it would make a difference, this type of system (siphon) is a waste of time.
.
Can you point me to where I would find the basic layout and dimensions.....
sleepydoc
Team RC
I agree that the cost is a one time thing and not a big issue (although there's no point in needlessly spending money, either.) The extra weight of the bulkheads make them seem better, but in reality it doesn't actually help. Plumbing should be properly supported. if it is, then the extra strength of the bulkheads doesn't matter. If it isn't, then bulkheads can end up putting too much torque on the tank and cracking the wall. Either way, if you're putting that much stress on the bulkhead that it's cracking then you've done something wrong.
Note that the vast majority of tanks don't even use schedule 40 - they use ABS and never have any issues. The most common issue I've seen with ABS is when people over tighten threaded fittings and crack them.
Aside from cost, the real drawback from the schedule 80 bulkheads is that they require larger holes which potentially weakens the tank more, particularly with glass tanks.
sleepydoc
Team RC
The rationale behind the overflow along the back is to maximize surface skimming. You can put the overflow on the end, but that significantly reduces skimming. It also puts a pretty long distance from the overflow to the other end o the tank.
You can certainly have the internal overflow along the back with the holes placed far to one side.
As I stated in my previous reply, the dimensions of the overflow box depend on the plumbing (and the materials from which it is made. 1.5" bulkheads are pretty big. How much flow are you looking for? Does the picture I posted above help you at all?
Coach Sharp
New member
Thanks everyone for your advice. My drain lines are planned to be 1.5” in the overflow box…my return lines are planned to be 1” in the upper right and left corner of the tank. The position of the return holes is why I can’t run the overflow “coast to coast”. However, given that the tank will be 7’ long, I suppose I could run it 4 or 5 feet if that would help? Does it help having more water in the overflow box…or less? Or does it not matter as long as the standpipe elbows are at the right height? Or does it help to have the downward facing standpipe elbows relatively close to the floor of the overflow box (like the ¾” distance in the drawing above).…to avoid junk settling on the floor of the box?
Regarding flow, the manufacturer of my tank tells me that each 1.5” bulkhead will drain about 1500 gph given my 6’ drop from top of tank to bottom of sump. Is that not accurate? Given that I’ll have about 250 gallons of water in my DT and another 75 or so gallons in the sump…and trying to achieve about 10X turnover per hour, that’s how I arrived at needing about 3000 gph. I also plan on Tee’ing off one of the drain lines to feed the refugium section of my sump. This is where I got the idea I might need to full siphon drainpipes running at 1500 each…….along with the one open channel standpipe and the one emergency standpipe. I also figured that if I end up needing only one of the full siphon drainpipes, or if having 2 causes an issue, I can just cap one off. Seems easier to cap one off later rather than drill one later! Am I way off in any of my thinking on this?
The drawing of hole dimensions was VERY helpful! So thanks for that. Can I ask if the pipes in the drawing were 1”, 1.25” or 1.5”? If the drawing reflects pipes that are smaller than 1.5”, then I guess I need to adjust a bit for that? Does anyone already have that computed?
Any harm in putting strainers on the ends of the standpipe elbows?
Regarding the Open Channel standpipe, does it help to install an Airline valve on that line….or is fine-tuning of the air flow not necessary with this design?
Thanks again for all the great ideas everyone…and your patience with all my questions!
Regarding flow, the manufacturer of my tank tells me that each 1.5” bulkhead will drain about 1500 gph given my 6’ drop from top of tank to bottom of sump. Is that not accurate? Given that I’ll have about 250 gallons of water in my DT and another 75 or so gallons in the sump…and trying to achieve about 10X turnover per hour, that’s how I arrived at needing about 3000 gph. I also plan on Tee’ing off one of the drain lines to feed the refugium section of my sump. This is where I got the idea I might need to full siphon drainpipes running at 1500 each…….along with the one open channel standpipe and the one emergency standpipe. I also figured that if I end up needing only one of the full siphon drainpipes, or if having 2 causes an issue, I can just cap one off. Seems easier to cap one off later rather than drill one later! Am I way off in any of my thinking on this?
The drawing of hole dimensions was VERY helpful! So thanks for that. Can I ask if the pipes in the drawing were 1”, 1.25” or 1.5”? If the drawing reflects pipes that are smaller than 1.5”, then I guess I need to adjust a bit for that? Does anyone already have that computed?
Any harm in putting strainers on the ends of the standpipe elbows?
Regarding the Open Channel standpipe, does it help to install an Airline valve on that line….or is fine-tuning of the air flow not necessary with this design?
Thanks again for all the great ideas everyone…and your patience with all my questions!
I was looking at 1500 gbh flow.
sleepydoc
Team RC
Coach- if you read through Beananimal's original description, he used 1" bulkheads and 1.5" pipes and was easily able to run 2000 gph, so yes, I would say the description on the bulkheads is incorrect. It really depends how you use them , though. A full siphon has a far greater capacity than a pipe that has air in it. The drop also plays a roll. A longer drop with a siphon will give greater flow. If you run the equations, a 1.5" siphon dropping 6' will theoretically run close to 7500 gph. That ignores friction losses and fittings, but you get the idea.
Regarding the overflow box, I place my elbows ¾" off the bottom to limit snails etc, but you also need to factor in the amount of flow you're running. The water level is determined by the open channel pipe. At steady state, the water level is generally about half way up the bulkhead for the open channel pipe. Remember, since it's normally entraining air, you could effectively remove the elbow from this pipe and not affect anything. What the elbow does is allow it to convert to a full siphon if the airline is occluded. Another thing to consider is that the flow into the siphon channel can create vortices from the water surface in the overflow box, causing it to entrain air and creating noise. This can be reduced by having a larger diameter elbow and having a deeper box.
I'll have to check, but as I recall I used 1" bulkheads and 1.25" elbows for my overflow. I put a basket strainer around by elbow to keep snails out. You just have to keep in mind that it can restrict flow a bit.
The open channel doesn't need a valve. Valves are used in a Durso to fine tune it and maximize the flow. With this design, the open channel is simply carrying the extra that the siphon doesn't.
See my reply above. Bean's system uses 1" bulkheads and flows over 2000 gph
Coach Sharp
New member
Thanks again. Sleepydoc, regarding your diagram and dimensions for you drawing above for your 120 FWIW...what size pipe is that?
sleepydoc
Team RC
My setup is very close to Bean's setup. 1" ABS bulkheads, 1 ½" sanitary Tees, 1 ¼" elbows inside the tank. I chose 1 ¼" simply to save a bit of room.
I am running right about 1000 gph without any problem at all. As I mentioned above, bean was running 2000 GPH, so yeah, 1" bulkheads would be fine. I don't know what the maximum flow would be with 1" bulkheads. 1" schedule 40 PVC pipe with a 4' drop will theoretically flow about 2500 gph. Coach - I wouldn't be at all surprised if you could get 3000 GPH with 1" bulkheads and 1.5" pipe after the bulkheads but it might be pushing it.
Uncle has set up more of these systems than I have and probably has a better idea about flows if he's around.
I am running right about 1000 gph without any problem at all. As I mentioned above, bean was running 2000 GPH, so yeah, 1" bulkheads would be fine. I don't know what the maximum flow would be with 1" bulkheads. 1" schedule 40 PVC pipe with a 4' drop will theoretically flow about 2500 gph. Coach - I wouldn't be at all surprised if you could get 3000 GPH with 1" bulkheads and 1.5" pipe after the bulkheads but it might be pushing it.
Uncle has set up more of these systems than I have and probably has a better idea about flows if he's around.
Rybren
Well-known member
I'm running about that much flow with three 1" bulkheads. Like Bean's original design, I upped the pipe to 1 1/2" after the bulkhead.
Here's a link to Bean's flow calculator
http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx
Coach Sharp
New member
Couple of follow-up questions on the BeanAnimal Design:
- Just curious....on the Siphon drainpipe and the Emergency drainpipe, why the use of the Sanitary Tee vs. an Elbow? I see why the Tee / Cap is necessary to construct the Open Standpipe in order to add the airline connection; but is it necessary to have the Tee for the Siphon and Emergency pipes? Is this for cleaning purposes?
- What's the difference between a Sanitary Tee and a regular Tee...and does the BeanAnimal setup require the Sanitary Tee vs. a regular Tee?
- Regarding the John Guest adapter that gets screwed into the top of the Open Standpipe cap...what diameter John Guest fitting is recommended? The 3/8" BPT version or the 1/4" mini NPTF version? Recommendations on how best to tap the threads? They have drill bits that form a NPTF thread?
- When starting up the BeanAnimal system for the first time, do you start with Siphon drainpipe valve wide-open and then reduce the flow gradually once the siphon begins...or do you start it with the valve restricted and then gradually open up the valve to get the optimum flow in the Open Drainpipe?
Thanks again everyone!
- Just curious....on the Siphon drainpipe and the Emergency drainpipe, why the use of the Sanitary Tee vs. an Elbow? I see why the Tee / Cap is necessary to construct the Open Standpipe in order to add the airline connection; but is it necessary to have the Tee for the Siphon and Emergency pipes? Is this for cleaning purposes?
- What's the difference between a Sanitary Tee and a regular Tee...and does the BeanAnimal setup require the Sanitary Tee vs. a regular Tee?
- Regarding the John Guest adapter that gets screwed into the top of the Open Standpipe cap...what diameter John Guest fitting is recommended? The 3/8" BPT version or the 1/4" mini NPTF version? Recommendations on how best to tap the threads? They have drill bits that form a NPTF thread?
- When starting up the BeanAnimal system for the first time, do you start with Siphon drainpipe valve wide-open and then reduce the flow gradually once the siphon begins...or do you start it with the valve restricted and then gradually open up the valve to get the optimum flow in the Open Drainpipe?
Thanks again everyone!
Rybren
Well-known member
Coach Sharp
New member
Thanks Rybren...very helpful!
Couple of follow-ups if you don't mind:
-I'm not very familiar with the John Guest fittings. Can I attach regular air line tubing to it.....or some special type of flexible tubing? I didn't see any flex tubing on the John Guest site....only rigid pipe?
- Regarding startup, when you say bubbles coming out of the OC....you mean the Open Channel elbow in the OverFlow...or out the OC drain pipe emerged in the sump?
- So, you recommend a Gate Valve on the Siphon standpipes vs. a Ball Valve...or would one of the CPEX ball valve form BRS do ok?
Thanks again!!!
Couple of follow-ups if you don't mind:
-I'm not very familiar with the John Guest fittings. Can I attach regular air line tubing to it.....or some special type of flexible tubing? I didn't see any flex tubing on the John Guest site....only rigid pipe?
- Regarding startup, when you say bubbles coming out of the OC....you mean the Open Channel elbow in the OverFlow...or out the OC drain pipe emerged in the sump?
- So, you recommend a Gate Valve on the Siphon standpipes vs. a Ball Valve...or would one of the CPEX ball valve form BRS do ok?
Thanks again!!!
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