Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

I just had a look at your photos and thread...

The plumbing looks ok... but that air valve needs to be fully open. Adjust the valve on the siphon standpipe until the water rises enough to just start flowing into the open channel (the one with the air line). You should see NO bubble coming out of the siphon standpipe (it may take a few minutes for them to clear). If you close the siphon down TOO much, then the open channel will have to handle TOO MUCH flow and it will make gurgling noises.
 
jb61264 said:
I think your estimation of about 3/16" of water flow over the top of the overflow is right on...not by my tank right now but it is a pretty thin layer that flows over the top...no more than 1/8" to 3/16" and I am using a Mag 18 (I have between 3-4' of lift from my sump so there is still some pretty good flow coming into the tank through my returns)
Click to expand...

Thanks for your feedback. Is there a formula to objectively determine what I guessed and you are seeing and measuring.

After reading Coyote's thread I may get a rotozip and do an external overflow as well.
 
Anybody have any suggestions on making my street els fit inside my internal overflow. I can get them to fit in the bulkhead when they're not in the overflow, but the force that is necessary to do this is great and I'm afraid it would make the overvlow/back of tank crack if I try it inside of the overflow. I was thinking of coating them in KY jelly to make them slide in easier. I figure KY would be cool becuase it's water based.
 
reefermad619 said:
Anybody have any suggestions on making my street els fit inside my internal overflow. I can get them to fit in the bulkhead when they're not in the overflow, but the force that is necessary to do this is great and I'm afraid it would make the overvlow/back of tank crack if I try it inside of the overflow. I was thinking of coating them in KY jelly to make them slide in easier. I figure KY would be cool becuase it's water based.
Click to expand...
I used a 3/4"-1" piece of PVC inside the elbow so half the PVC was sticking out of the elbow and that is what actually slide into my bulkheads...what size bulkheads are you using?
 
jesserettele said:
Thanks for your feedback. Is there a formula to objectively determine what I guessed and you are seeing and measuring.

After reading Coyote's thread I may get a rotozip and do an external overflow as well.
Click to expand...

You would use standard weir formulas.

rough estimates based on the shape of the weir:
36" long @ 700 GPH = ~0.22 inches
36" long @ 900 GPH = ~0.26 inches
 
BeanAnimal said:
I just had a look at your photos and thread...

The plumbing looks ok... but that air valve needs to be fully open. Adjust the valve on the siphon standpipe until the water rises enough to just start flowing into the open channel (the one with the air line). You should see NO bubble coming out of the siphon standpipe (it may take a few minutes for them to clear). If you close the siphon down TOO much, then the open channel will have to handle TOO MUCH flow and it will make gurgling noises.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bean. The tank should be filled tomorrow. I will take your advice and open the valve on the siphon standpipe. I appreciate you taking the time to check out my thread and commenting.
 
You mean open the air valve on the open channel standpipe. The ball valve on the siphon standpipe is what is used to adjust the system :)
 
jb61264 said:
I used a 3/4"-1" piece of PVC inside the elbow so half the PVC was sticking out of the elbow and that is what actually slide into my bulkheads...what size bulkheads are you using?
Click to expand...

I'm using 1" bulkheads and the streets are 1" to 3/4". So they should fit fine in the bulkhead. They do fit, but I have twist them in there pretty hard, so hard that I worry about doing it inside of the overflow. I might have to get a feeler gauge and see if the elbows are all the same size.
 
Hey Bean, I looked at your parts list and it says you use 1.25" street els (which I already knew, I was double checking). How do you connect that to your 1" bulk head? From my understanding when using street els, one size is always smaller. I thought this was done to eliminte the coupler. so My 1" streets would have to be 3/4 on one side so they could be inserted to 1" pipe. So how did you but up your 1" end of your street el to your 1" bulkhead? Also, I'm using all 1" pipe. I don't have much room behind the tank and the 1.5" is the same size plumbing used on my kitchen sink, so I figured 1" would be OK. All this is mute, if I'm wrong on the size of the bulkhead. A 1" bulkhead is supposed to have a 3/4" inlet, right?

jb... I think what you did with your els is pretty much the same thing I did, but you used a piece of 3/4" pvc to join them and my street el had the 3/4" piece built in. Did you use streets? I'm pretty sure I already asked this. Thanks for the help guys. I really do appreciate it.
 
BeanAnimal said:
You would use standard weir formulas.

rough estimates based on the shape of the weir:
36" long @ 700 GPH = ~0.22 inches
36" long @ 900 GPH = ~0.26 inches
Click to expand...

Hey bean ive been looking for some info on this, im just waitiing for my weir from the plastic shop, i made it 48" long the width of my tank and it has 1/4" wide teeth with a space of 1/4" beteen them and are 1" tall, my flow will be about 700gph, considering those numbers above and saying that i have 24" total of wier minus the teeth, will the water line above the weir be about .33"?

fyi, bean you are full of usefull info, every thread of yours i learn something new! I really appreciate all the time you have put in to help out noobs like me, thanks!

Jim.
 
Another little tidbit of info bean, your overflow system could also be very usefull in a planted freshwater aquarium, i had a 300 gallon setup with a sump but the turbulance of the standard standpipes would make the water release the co2 that i was injecting into the water for the plants, i ended up having to switch to 2 canister filters and run my water level below the overflows, if i would have had this setup 5 years ago i would have been able to use the sump with success!
 
reefermad619 said:
My 1" streets would have to be 3/4 on one side so they could be inserted to 1" pipe.
Click to expand...
Are you measuring the fitting or is it marked as a 1" to 3/4"?

We don't measure PVC pipe and fittings, the numbers we use to designate them are nominal pipe sizes that have little to do with the actual diamters.

A 1" bulkhead is supposed to have a 3/4" inlet, right?
Click to expand...
A 1" bulkhead takes 1" pipe. A 1" street elbow has a 1" socket (the female side) at one end and a 1" pipe (the male side) at the other. Not we are not talking about the measurements, but the nominal pipe size designation. A 1" x 3/4" street elbow would be called a "reducing elbow".
 
noobtothereef said:
Hey bean ive been looking for some info on this, im just waitiing for my weir from the plastic shop, i made it 48" long the width of my tank and it has 1/4" wide teeth with a space of 1/4" beteen them and are 1" tall, my flow will be about 700gph, considering those numbers above and saying that i have 24" total of wier minus the teeth, will the water line above the weir be about .33"?

fyi, bean you are full of usefull info, every thread of yours i learn something new! I really appreciate all the time you have put in to help out noobs like me, thanks!

Jim.
Click to expand...

For a FLAT 24" weir that depth of the water would be roughly 0.29 inches. However, the teeth cause a flwo restriction that creates turbulance and back pressure. The water will climb the edges of the teeth. You are likely looking at somewher near 0.5 to 0.6 inches of depth through the teeth.

I am not a fan of teeth at all. Maximizing surface skimming is always a good idea :)
 
the wier itself is 48" long, with teeth on the top so i figured it as 24" of area due to the teeth take up 1/2 of it. I also know that surface skimming is good but the way im building the tank it has the top euro brace and will be very hard to get anything out of the internal wier box so i made it with teeth trying to keep out as much as possible thats why i made it the entire length of the tank so get as much surface as possible
 
PVC pipe is sized according to Nominal Pipe Size (NPS). Without a long explanation, the NPS sizes were derived from the I.D. for pipes of standard wall thickness (galvanzied) pipes in the late 1920's and have little relation to I.D., O.D. or Wall thickness of modern pipe. We derive wall thickness based on pressure or duty and have at least two common systems. We designate wall thickness via schedule or SDR (standard dimension ratio), both having the same O.D. (as dicated by the NPS table) but the wall thickness is derived by a different forumula. The topic is interesting, but outside the scope of this thread.


<TABLE border=1 cellPadding=2 align=center><TBODY><TR align=middle bgColor=silver><TH rowSpan=2>Nominal
Pipe Size
</TH><TH rowSpan=2>O.D.</TH><TH colSpan=3>I.D.</TH><TH colSpan=3>Wall thickness</TH><TH colSpan=3>Weight
lbs/ft
</TH><TH colSpan=3>Max
PSI
</TH></TR><TR align=middle bgColor=silver><TH>40</TH><TH>80</TH><TH>120</TH><TH>40</TH><TH>80</TH><TH>120</TH><TH>40</TH><TH>80</TH><TH>120</TH><TH>40</TH><TH>80</TH><TH>120</TH></TR><TR align=middle><TD>1/8"</TD><TD>0.405</TD><TD>0.261</TD><TD>0.203</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.068</TD><TD>0.095</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.045</TD><TD>0.058</TD><TD></TD><TD>810</TD><TD>1230</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>1/4"</TD><TD>0.540</TD><TD>0.354</TD><TD>0.288</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.088</TD><TD>0.119</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.081</TD><TD>0.100</TD><TD></TD><TD>780</TD><TD>1130</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>3/8"</TD><TD>0.675</TD><TD>0.483</TD><TD>0.407</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.091</TD><TD>0.126</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.109</TD><TD>0.138</TD><TD></TD><TD>620</TD><TD>920</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>1/2"</TD><TD>0.840</TD><TD>0.608</TD><TD>0.528</TD><TD>0.480</TD><TD>0.109</TD><TD>0.147</TD><TD>0.170</TD><TD>0.161</TD><TD>0.202</TD><TD>0.223</TD><TD>600</TD><TD>850</TD><TD>1010</TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>3/4"</TD><TD>1.050</TD><TD>0.810</TD><TD>0.724</TD><TD>0.690</TD><TD>0.113</TD><TD>0.154</TD><TD>0.170</TD><TD>0.214</TD><TD>0.273</TD><TD>0.295</TD><TD>480</TD><TD>690</TD><TD>770</TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>1"</TD><TD>1.315</TD><TD>1.033</TD><TD>0.935</TD><TD>0.891</TD><TD>0.133</TD><TD>0.179</TD><TD>0.200</TD><TD>0.315</TD><TD>0.402</TD><TD>0.440</TD><TD>450</TD><TD>630</TD><TD>720</TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>1-1/4"</TD><TD>1.660</TD><TD>1.364</TD><TD>1.256</TD><TD>1.204</TD><TD>0.140</TD><TD>0.191</TD><TD>0.215</TD><TD>0.426</TD><TD>0.554</TD><TD>0.614</TD><TD>370</TD><TD>520</TD><TD>600</TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>1-1/2"</TD><TD>1.900</TD><TD>1.592</TD><TD>1.476</TD><TD>1.423</TD><TD>0.145</TD><TD>0.200</TD><TD>0.225</TD><TD>0.509</TD><TD>0.673</TD><TD>0.744</TD><TD>330</TD><TD>470</TD><TD>540</TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>2"</TD><TD>2.375</TD><TD>2.049</TD><TD>1.913</TD><TD>1.845</TD><TD>0.154</TD><TD>0.218</TD><TD>0.250</TD><TD>0.682</TD><TD>0.932</TD><TD>1.052</TD><TD>280</TD><TD>400</TD><TD>470</TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>2-1/2"</TD><TD>2.875</TD><TD>2.445</TD><TD>2.289</TD><TD>2.239</TD><TD>0.203</TD><TD>0.276</TD><TD>0.300</TD><TD>1.076</TD><TD>1.419</TD><TD>1.529</TD><TD>300</TD><TD>420</TD><TD>470</TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>3"</TD><TD>3.500</TD><TD>3.042</TD><TD>2.864</TD><TD>2.758</TD><TD>0.216</TD><TD>0.300</TD><TD>0.350</TD><TD>1.409</TD><TD>1.903</TD><TD>2.184</TD><TD>260</TD><TD>370</TD><TD>440</TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>3-1/2"</TD><TD>4.000</TD><TD>3.520</TD><TD>3.326</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.226</TD><TD>0.318</TD><TD></TD><TD>1.697</TD><TD>2.322</TD><TD></TD><TD>240</TD><TD>350</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>4"</TD><TD>4.500</TD><TD>3.998</TD><TD>3.786</TD><TD>3.572</TD><TD>0.237</TD><TD>0.337</TD><TD>0.437</TD><TD>2.006</TD><TD>2.782</TD><TD>3.516</TD><TD>220</TD><TD>320</TD><TD>430</TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>5"</TD><TD>5.563</TD><TD>5.017</TD><TD>4.767</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.258</TD><TD>0.375</TD><TD></TD><TD>2.726</TD><TD>3.867</TD><TD></TD><TD>190</TD><TD>290</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>6"</TD><TD>6.625</TD><TD>6.031</TD><TD>5.709</TD><TD>5.434</TD><TD>0.280</TD><TD>0.432</TD><TD>0.562</TD><TD>3.535</TD><TD>5.313</TD><TD>6.759</TD><TD>180</TD><TD>280</TD><TD>370</TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>8"</TD><TD>8.625</TD><TD>7.943</TD><TD>7.565</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.322</TD><TD>0.500</TD><TD></TD><TD>5.305</TD><TD>8.058</TD><TD></TD><TD>160</TD><TD>250</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>10"</TD><TD>10.750</TD><TD>9.976</TD><TD>9.492</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.365</TD><TD>0.593</TD><TD></TD><TD>7.532</TD><TD>11.956</TD><TD></TD><TD>140</TD><TD>230</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>12"</TD><TD>12.750</TD><TD>11.890</TD><TD>11.294</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.406</TD><TD>0.687</TD><TD></TD><TD>9.949</TD><TD>16.437</TD><TD></TD><TD>130</TD><TD>230</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>14"</TD><TD>14.000</TD><TD>13.072</TD><TD>12.410</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.437</TD><TD>0.750</TD><TD></TD><TD>11.810</TD><TD>19.790</TD><TD></TD><TD>130</TD><TD>220</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>16"</TD><TD>16.000</TD><TD>14.940</TD><TD>14.214</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.500</TD><TD>0.843</TD><TD></TD><TD>15.416</TD><TD>25.430</TD><TD></TD><TD>130</TD><TD>220</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>18"</TD><TD>18.000</TD><TD>16.809</TD><TD>16.014</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.562</TD><TD>0.937</TD><TD></TD><TD>20.112</TD><TD>31.830</TD><TD></TD><TD>130</TD><TD>220</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>20"</TD><TD>20.000</TD><TD>18.743</TD><TD>17.814</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.593</TD><TD>1.031</TD><TD></TD><TD>23.624</TD><TD>40.091</TD><TD></TD><TD>120</TD><TD>220</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD>24"</TD><TD>24.000</TD><TD>22.544</TD><TD>21.418</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.687</TD><TD>1.218</TD><TD></TD><TD>32.873</TD><TD>56.882</TD><TD></TD><TD>120</TD><TD>210</TD><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
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