Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

gweston said:
Thanks for super quick response! :) Puts me at ease. I may stick to the 1" bulkheads and 1.5" piping. The flow rate should be plenty as it is. I'll be supplementing with at least a pair of power heads with a wave maker anyhow for some extra turbulence.
Click to expand...
I have a Mag 18 on my 75 mixed reef with a 55 sump below...lift is about 3-4' and I split my returns to both corners...I also T off my return to a refugium...I guesstimate I'm getting about 500-600 gph out of each return and it is nothing for the silent/failsafe overflow to handle...I supplement with two Koralia 1's and have great results.
 
cweston:
Just a thought.....if possible - you may want to put 1-1/2'' fittings on the emergency drain. Not necessary, but it does increase the amount of water able to "escape" the overflow a little faster, in the event it was needed.
 
Thanks - it is something tha does not cost extra, but may provide additional peace of mind.

I can turn off all the other valves - and the emergency drain can take all the pump can push.

THAT helps a fellow sleep at nite!

T
 
ok after a blizzard here in PA ive had somemore time to review your concept and i think i am going to give this a try. I dont want to insult anyone with this question, so let me ask it another way. say i was to incorporate this design as stated with 3) 1" bulkheads upsized at the elbows right away. Would it be possible for me to incorporate my skimmer into this plumbing for a direct gravity-fed induction effect? if so, which standpipe would be better to branch off of? the siphon or the free-flow? im working my way through this thread, so bear with me. It just seems logical to me that if i have water falling through pipes like i do, why not put it to good use and avoid the induction pump?
 
I finally came up with the specs for my external overflow with an internal weir for the beananimal overflow and I had a few questions before finalizing. (This is my first saltwater tank so hopefully my questions aren't too silly :worried:)

The first image shows the back wall of my tank and the second image shows the top of my tank. (special thanks to uncleof6 since I did a similar drawing to one he had created and of course to beananimal for this design ;) )

My tank is a 55 gallon acrylic tank that will have a return flow of around 600GPH and all my plumbing, including the bulkheads, are for 1" piping.

My internal weir will not be coast to coast but rather 15 3/4" long since, the top of my tank will only allow me access to the internal weir via the opening on the top as shown in the second image.

Questions:

  1. What is the recommended width of the internal weir? I was originally choosing a width of 2 1/2" which would be the maximum width I can go for to be able to access the internal weir via the top opening (the rectangular opening back center). Now, I'm thinking, maybe I can make it only 1 1/2" so I can save an inch of internal tank space since thats the purpose of having an external overflow :D; but with a length of only 15 3/4", I was worried that 1 1/2" would not be enough to push 600GPH through it.<br><br>
  2. For the internal weir, is 1/2" below the top of the tank enough space or would I have to increase the distance?<br><br>
  3. As I understand, to achieve a quiet flow from the internal weir to the external overflow through the 3 holes, I would want the water line to be approx. center of the holes. Therefore, the top of the siphon channel elbow will be just above the water line and the center line of the open channel elbow will be below the water line as shown with the two tick marks in the first image. I will make the open channel slightly higher than the siphon channel and will try to line the center line of the open channel elbow to the water line. Does this seem ok, or will the operating water line be different so I should adjust the height of the external overflow box? I understand that I may adjust the height of the siphon channel pipe itself, but I was shooting for about an 1" of space from the opening of the elbow to the bottom of the external box. I've seen some designs with a large amount of space in between elbow and bottom, but as I recall the original design called for a narrow opening. Now that I think about it, I don't really know why I'm shooting for 1". :strange:<br><br>
  4. In the internal weir box, with the water line at the center of the holes, the drop for the water to enter the weir is 2 1/2". Will this drop cause noise? <br><br>
 

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i dont recall if its been covered but ill ask away. Im using 1" bulkheads with threads on both ends, should i wrap the threads with teflon tape or should i use pipe dope(I think thats what called)?
 
bad santa said:
i dont recall if its been covered but ill ask away. Im using 1" bulkheads with threads on both ends, should i wrap the threads with teflon tape or should i use pipe dope(I think thats what called)?
Click to expand...

Both work, but should not use both at the same time. I use teflon pipe dope on all threaded connections. I save the tape for sprinkler systems.

Jim
 
Yup.... use the PTFE paste (teflon paste).

Don't use "dope" that is not listed as PTFE. It should be white, not yellow or any other color... the package MUST say PTFE or Teflon on it.
 
I hate to ask but does someone have a place and maybe a parts number or link to the 1 1/4 X 1 street elbow.
I have a Home Depot and Lowes in town but I could just as easily order online from anyone.
Anyone have a complete order they could cut and paste for all the plumbing parts?
 
I would call a Fergusons Plumbing supply if you have one in your area. or you may have better luck going from 1-1/2'' to 1''. More common. Flex PVC.com also may have what you need.
T
 
I am going to be running this on a new 90 gal I am in the process of setting up with 1.5 " bulkheads and plumbing and approx 6' of head. How much flow should I expect from this and does anyone have a recomendation for a new return pump?
 
Russter said:
I am going to be running this on a new 90 gal I am in the process of setting up with 1.5 " bulkheads and plumbing and approx 6' of head. How much flow should I expect from this and does anyone have a recomendation for a new return pump?
Click to expand...

1.5" plumbing? Capacity 3000 gph +. What do you need in terms of flow? ~ 1000 gph. (not counting power heads/closed loop) A pump? That is very subjective. A pump that will flow ~1000 gph or more ( more to allow for feeding aux equipment, if needed) @ 6' head loss. Me recommending a specific pump for this system, would be like going after a mouse with a bazooka, I have a preference for larger, lower rpm motors, that would more than likely be overkill on a 90, but then maybe not. At least the above recommendation is reasonable. ;)

Regards,

Jim
 
flow rate

flow rate

Russter said:
I am going to be running this on a new 90 gal I am in the process of setting up with 1.5 " bulkheads and plumbing and approx 6' of head. How much flow should I expect from this and does anyone have a recommendation for a new return pump?
Click to expand...

I'm assembling bits to build a 125gal long (6') with what will most likely be a basement sump. The head height will be between 6'-8' at most. I picked up a Mag Drive 18 (1800gph@0ft) pump. I'll also be using the 1.5" pipe and 1.5" bulkheads. I upped the plan from 1" bulkheads. Can't go wrong with more flow on the larger tanks.

Best rule most often said. Get something with a larger gph than you think you'll need. You can then tune it back with a ball valve. Even better, fork the plumbing to divert the unnecessary flow back into the sump to save on pump wear.

I am hoping to get around 1000-1200 gph after all is done. With head height and loss from plumbing (elbows, check valve, etc). I suspect the plumbing will be able to handle a lot more flow. I could have upped to a Mag24 pump, but the wattage difference between the models is rather large. I am trying to balance economics (electricity) with an effective flow rate.

The mag will be running in-sump. You may be able to find some better, but potentially costlier pumps that need to be plumbed in. Try not to go cheap on the pump though.. I have read about low quality pumps failing, leaking oil, and killing tanks. The mags (among others), for example, are pricier, but sealed and oil-free.
 
gweston said:
You can then tune it back with a ball valve. Even better, fork the plumbing to divert the unnecessary flow back into the sump to save on pump wear.
.
Click to expand...

Throttling the output of a centrifugal pump will not cause wear on the pump and in fact causes less. Diverting the uneeded flow back to the sump WILL in fact case more wear on the pump (and power usage).

There is no need to oversize the pump just to throttle it back, if you know the flow requirements. Doing so (in many cases) will result in simply wasting money on electricity.

The proper way to size a pump is to determine the desired flow and then choose a pump based on its flow curve. You would choose a pump that is most efficient at the chosen head and flow :)
 
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