Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[theshiver]

Sure! No problem. What size system and pump?
T

This is for my 75 in my bed room I will use 1" bulk heads on it with a mag 9.5 return pump but I am in the planning stage of my 600 it has 2 internal overflows each with 3 holes 1-2 1 1.5 and 1-1 just trying to figure how to make this work

 

[teesquare]

Why the 3 different hole sizes in the internal overflows?

 

[jupiter]

Yes... the fully open siphon means it is taking all it can take (as long as no air is getting in). The internal elbow and bulkhead are likely the narrow spots.

So with your DART at full flow and the siphon valve all the way open, does the siphon suck air?

Wow, this is insane! So I slowly closed the gate (the Tee-off) so the full flow went to the tank. The open standpipe was able to take the flow by alternating to siphon and back. I was impressed but I thought, "Hmm, I could leave this like that but what happens when the power goes out. Surely, the flow to the tank will be faster than what the overflow system can handle before it floods." So I switched off the power bar, and keeping my finger on the switch just in case, I flipped it back on. The water rose and right as the water filled the overflow box, I had all three pipes running and nothing was even close to overflowing. Well, surely, if the air intake got loose the emergency standpipe wouldn't handle the flow, so with the air intake in hand (to dunk the end immediately if required) I lifted the tube from the water to take only air. Well the emergency pipe took all that extra water and the system didn't even belch.

I am so very impressed. I'm nervous to let it run like this because I don't like that the open channel needs to flip between siphon and open but it's nice to know I can actually use the full Dart's water flow.

 

[stealle]

Sorry-
by weir - I mean the baffles...they have slots cut in them. Just make sure that the open area of these slots is much greater than what is needed to handle the pump you settle on. I am not in favor of the slots, they collect debreis, changing the water height and flow potential in the sump. I like smooth tops baffles. But it is entirely a personal choice - not one of success or failure.

Slots? Perhaps you are seeing pixelation. I do not have any slots on the three baffles. The only slots I have are the slots on the overflow portion of the refugium overflow. Have a look at that. Thanks.

 

[teesquare]

:thumbsup:Tah dah!!!!!:thumbsup:

I love those epiphany moments!

Here is something else to consider: If the emergency is the same size or larger - than the siphn , and set to the correct height- you should be able shut off the ball valve to the main siphon, the emergency will kick in, and not overflow the tank.
T

 

[jupiter]

double post. sorry

 

[teesquare]

O.k. Now I see the refugium overflow....never mind:hmm2:
T

 

[jupiter]

So I tried shutting off the siphon valve but I don't have enough water in the sump. The Dart starts sucking air. The only way to try it is if I add more water but It's got too much already right now. But I will try it later.

My posts keep repeating for some reason.

 

[teesquare]

To clarify:

Your emergency drain is the same size as the siphon - or larger? AND do you have the emergency drain opening 1/2-to-3/4'' of an inch below the ultimate point of height - prior to water spilling on the floor?

 

[jupiter]

To clarify:

Your emergency drain is the same size as the siphon - or larger? AND do you have the emergency drain opening 1/2-to-3/4'' of an inch below the ultimate point of height - prior to water spilling on the floor?

The emergency is the same size and it's 1" below the lip of the tank (more or less). I think it should work. Realistically though, I don't think there is enough water in the sump to feed the pump when the water reaches that high in the tank. Already, the sump water level is running about 1" higher than the baffles when everything is running right and the pump is fed nicely.

I understand the idea though because when the open channel is fed air (no siphon possible, just gravity) the system works and it works well.

 

[theshiver]

Why the 3 different hole sizes in the internal overflows?

That I can't answer it was that way when I bought the tank don't know if it was to run 2" and 1.5" as the drain and the 1" as return or what they had in mind this is my first tank of this size and not sure how to plumb it any thought's or suggestions welcome and appreciated

 

[noobtothereef]

So what size standpipes are you going to use? If it is going to be 1.5", you don't have enough room in the external for them, not even sure 1" standpipes will fit in there......

Jim

1.5" will fit in there, i just built mine out of 1 1/2" with street L's on the siphon and the open channel and just have a straight pipe in the center beteen the two, with 1/2" between 1 1/2" bulkhead fitting flanges it is 17" wide so it will fit , still not sure why people are running the t's and elbows on the emergency pipe, is there a reason for it? using the "t" and elbow just offsets the inlet and would actually slow the flow down in the emergency wouldnt it?

 

[noobtothereef]

Jim... point taken, I was planning on 1.5", although, my flow rate is only going to be around 400gph (Powerheads are what will be creating my flow in the tank) Maybe I should consider 1"?

Either way, I'll need to get some parts and figure out how much space they take. Part of the solution may be to move the holes a bit for a better fit and use an emergency that's a straight up pipe. I don't think there's any problem with that, but if there is, please let me know... something like this:
(I took the photos from others posts in this thread)

I don't see the benefit of doing this with the emergency overflow:

Another option is to follow robertifly's version of an external but holes out the back, rather than the bottom:

So, any comments about an external with holes out the back vs holes out the bottom?

THANKS!

I dont see the reason for going out the back, it would just make the tank farther from the wall by 6" or so, it would also bring the weight of the plumbing further out creating more "leverage" on the external overflow box and would need to be further supported

 

[arichschmidt]

what is the advantage of having the 3rd overflow with the upfacing elbow?

 

[jb61264]

what is the advantage of having the 3rd overflow with the upfacing elbow?

This is the "failsafe" overflow...check out Beananimals original post here:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1310585

 

[uncleof6]

1.5" will fit in there, i just built mine out of 1 1/2" with street L's on the siphon and the open channel and just have a straight pipe in the center beteen the two, with 1/2" between 1 1/2" bulkhead fitting flanges it is 17" wide so it will fit , still not sure why people are running the t's and elbows on the emergency pipe, is there a reason for it? using the "t" and elbow just offsets the inlet and would actually slow the flow down in the emergency wouldnt it?

I dont see the reason for going out the back, it would just make the tank farther from the wall by 6" or so, it would also bring the weight of the plumbing further out creating more "leverage" on the external overflow box and would need to be further supported

 

[teesquare]

You mean ...like this?

Only - this serves a purpose in this location, and it frees up a lot of space that would otherwise be lost in the tank
T

 

[robojet]

I still seem to be perpetual 1 month away from getting water in my new tank... here's a few photos for now.

I was wondering, is there a favorite brand of ball valve being used? And is it OK to mix a Sch80 ball valve with Sch40 tubing? I was considering ordering these ball valves.

LeeMar did a great job on the tank... I've dry fitted a bulkhead and a 90 degree elbow in the overflow, and it appears that everything will fit perfectly!

Sorry for the poor photo, but this shows the overflow with the lid. There's a bit of a bow in the lid, but I think I can fix that.

 

[jupiter]

:thumbsup:Tah dah!!!!!:thumbsup:

I love those epiphany moments!

Here is something else to consider: If the emergency is the same size or larger - than the siphn , and set to the correct height- you should be able shut off the ball valve to the main siphon, the emergency will kick in, and not overflow the tank.
T

So I tried shutting off the siphon valve but I don't have enough water in the sump. The Dart starts sucking air. The only way to try it is if I add more water but It's got too much already right now. But I will try it later.

I added some of my live rock and this raised the water level (so I didn't need to add more water to the sump). I tried shutting off the siphon completely. There wasn't even a blimp; the emergency kicked in and the system just kept going. The water in the DT didn't even rise more than 1/4" higher.

 

[teesquare]

Awesome Mike!!!
Don't you feel better now - just because you have witnessed that it is SAFE - you already knew it could be silent. And - that means - is you should never lose sleep again over whether the tank"sounds funny" - which is often a pre-curser to a flood:eek1:

Congratulations - you have passsed "the test!:bounce1::bounce3::bounce2: