Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[GROSSR]

While I like this to restrict critters, snails, I am curious how much are you might be restricting flow. As long as you can take if off easily, you can always cut it down.

Try it out and if you think the flow is restricted, you can trim the elbow. Another thought is to turn the elbow so you get one side higher and allow more water to flow.

With that much clearance, will the elbow come off?

rich

 

[dirtycontour]

While I like this to restrict critters, snails, I am curious how much are you might be restricting flow. As long as you can take if off easily, you can always cut it down.

Try it out and if you think the flow is restricted, you can trim the elbow. Another thought is to turn the elbow so you get one side higher and allow more water to flow.

With that much clearance, will the elbow come off?

rich

Yes, it will come off. It is very tight but it comes off. I guess I'll see what happens when I fill the tank with water, thanks for the reply.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I had an unintentional full-flow test of the open channel the other day...

I've been running my BeanAnimal system for over a year and a half now without any issues, just a minor valve adjustment now and then. I run 3x 1.5" pipes at ~3000GPH, usually the siphon line takes it all. The air line coming off the O.C. was just snaked down the emergency drain, I just never got around to permanently securing it. Also, I had not ever tested the system (by closing the siphon line valve all the way)...I just trusted it.

A buddy of mine clued me into a trick he used to do cleaning, he snaked a hose down the emergency drain and then put a filter sock on it. I've done this a couple times and it works great, a 1/2" ID hose fit snugly down the pipe (bulkheads and fittings essentially made it sealed off while doing this). As I noted, the airline is just snaked down the emergency drain, so I had that line pulled out (in open air - no where near water).

So I was doing this while pulling off a bunch of Anthelia and spot cleaning when I heard what sounded like 2 pool balls hitting each other, and then the overflow box started filling up. Needless to say, a certain sphincter muscle clamped down pretty tight right about then. I dashed for the return pump plug but the paused just to see what would happen.

The O.C., with the airline still open, balanced out and took the whole flow. The pipe was sucking air as the water level in the overflow box maintained at just above the bottom of the down-turned elbow. I breathed a sigh of relief and then went on the troubleshooting hunt. I was pretty sure I knew what it was. A big snail was in the overflow box and got sucked into the siphon line. I cracked the valve and he came out, and everything was working fine again.

So I guess I need to lower my siphon line slightly!

 

[pfoxgrover]

I am trying to help out a friend how is computer challenged...

He built the overflow as outlined in the original design with two exceptions. The pipes have a 45 degree section to get them over to the side of the stand where the sump inlet is, and the over flow is not coast to coast but is pretty long maybe 20".

The problem is when first starting the system it goes into oscillation unless you are there and mess with it.

First the flow goes down either the O.C. or the emergency channel. The overflow runs dry at some point and the C.L never kicks in.

Questions
1) If the pipe lengths are a different because of the 45 degree runs will that affect starting? (The C.L. pipe is the longest and the Emergency channel is the shortest)
2) What exactly should start up look like? Which pipes get flow and what order?
3) All three lines go an inch or so underwater (at least the O.C. and C.L) should we shorten them to see if that fixes it?

Here is a picture that shows some of the plumbing. From left to right is Emergency, O.C.,C.L.

Thanks for the help!

-Paul

 

[jerpa]

I am trying to help out a friend how is computer challenged...

He built the overflow as outlined in the original design with two exceptions. The pipes have a 45 degree section to get them over to the side of the stand where the sump inlet is, and the over flow is not coast to coast but is pretty long maybe 20".

The problem is when first starting the system it goes into oscillation unless you are there and mess with it.

First the flow goes down either the O.C. or the emergency channel. The overflow runs dry at some point and the C.L never kicks in.

Questions
1) If the pipe lengths are a different because of the 45 degree runs will that affect starting? (The C.L. pipe is the longest and the Emergency channel is the shortest)
2) What exactly should start up look like? Which pipes get flow and what order?
3) All three lines go an inch or so underwater (at least the O.C. and C.L) should we shorten them to see if that fixes it?

Here is a picture that shows some of the plumbing. From left to right is Emergency, O.C.,C.L.

Thanks for the help!

-Paul

It appears you have a horizontal run in addition to the 45 on the open channel and siphon line. That can cause issues.

Normally the siphon channel and open channel take water initially with the siphon picking up more flow as air is purged from the lines until flow down the open channel slows to a trickle. Depending on the flow and drain sizes the emergency may be triggered before the system stabilizes, which can take several minutes.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I would try to make the siphon line (CL??) out of flex PVC and make sure it has a downward slope all the way, then put the valve right above the water line, so that the siphon line terminates no more than 1" below the operating water level. It would also help to do this with the OC. Siphon should really be the shortest line and as vertical as possible, but you gotta do with what you have sometimes, I understand.

Additional pics of the internal overflow box, transition to the pipes, and in-sump termination method would help. As many pics as you can.

 

[pfoxgrover]

It appears you have a horizontal run in addition to the 45 on the open channel and siphon line. That can cause issues.

Normally the siphon channel and open channel take water initially with the siphon picking up more flow as air is purged from the lines until flow down the open channel slows to a trickle. Depending on the flow and drain sizes the emergency may be triggered before the system stabilizes, which can take several minutes.

I need to get my eyes checked! I didn't even think there was horizontal plumbing in there. I'm glad I put the photo in there.

Thanks Jer

 

[pfoxgrover]

I would try to make the siphon line (CL??) out of flex PVC and make sure it has a downward slope all the way, then put the valve right above the water line, so that the siphon line terminates no more than 1" below the operating water level. It would also help to do this with the OC. Siphon should really be the shortest line and as vertical as possible, but you gotta do with what you have sometimes, I understand.

Additional pics of the internal overflow box, transition to the pipes, and in-sump termination method would help. As many pics as you can.

Floyd,
Thanks for the suggestion! I had not considered Flex PVC. I'm sure we will try something like you suggested. I will send more pics when I can get them.

Thanks again,
-Paul

 

[KindCorals]

How do you guys support your drains? I tied some rope around the very bottom 45 degree angled pipes, secured the rope with tape, then tied the rope to some hooks above it. I need to re-tie the rope at a minimum but Im thinking I need more support, especially up near the top where the pipes come horizontally out from the tank, right after the bulk heads. Any ideas?

 

[Mike S]

I didn't realize that a long horizontal run was an issue. I'm planning out my plumbing and need to run it across my basement about 15 feet. If I have around 3 feet of drop over this distance will I still run into problems?

 

[browning_boy20]

I am installing a ba on my 350 as we speak and was wondering if I need to have my ball valves directly under the tee? I am going to have to have the back of the tank so far out from the wall if I can't mount them further downstream, closer to the sump. Thanks for the help.

 

[jerpa]

How do you guys support your drains? I tied some rope around the very bottom 45 degree angled pipes, secured the rope with tape, then tied the rope to some hooks above it. I need to re-tie the rope at a minimum but Im thinking I need more support, especially up near the top where the pipes come horizontally out from the tank, right after the bulk heads. Any ideas?

I used split ring hangers but home depot and lowes have a variety of other hooks and clamps in the plumbing section.

I didn't realize that a long horizontal run was an issue. I'm planning out my plumbing and need to run it across my basement about 15 feet. If I have around 3 feet of drop over this distance will I still run into problems?

The drop will improve the chances of it working but that is still a long run. I wouldn't count on it working properly.

I am installing a ba on my 350 as we speak and was wondering if I need to have my ball valves directly under the tee? I am going to have to have the back of the tank so far out from the wall if I can't mount them further downstream, closer to the sump. Thanks for the help.

You can mount the valves near the sump, and it is usually necessary when the sump is in the basement.

 

[dirtycontour]

I'm using split ring hangers. Anyone experience any rust issues?

 

[Mike S]

The drop will improve the chances of it working but that is still a long run. I wouldn't count on it working properly.

Thanks so is the main issue going to be getting the air to purge from the siphon line and then getting a full siphon to start? Will it result in surging/flushing? If I put my gate valve at my sump and then close the valve more than normal until the line fills help?

 

[KindCorals]

I used split ring hangers but home depot and lowes have a variety of other hooks and clamps in the plumbing section.

same as pictured below? how much does that support the drains? wouldnt it be better to put something under, with light pressure upwards for example? I've never seen these before so I dont know how they work.

I'm using split ring hangers. Anyone experience any rust issues?

I could probably mount mine similar to the way you have yours but Im scared to drill into that part of the stand since it helps support the tank. I'd be worried it might weaken the stand a bit. Im usually paranoid when it comes to stuff like this but I've had too many floods in my rentals in the past for not worrying at all lol

 

[Da Maui life]

How do you guys support your drains? I tied some rope around the very bottom 45 degree angled pipes, secured the rope with tape, then tied the rope to some hooks above it. I need to re-tie the rope at a minimum but Im thinking I need more support, especially up near the top where the pipes come horizontally out from the tank, right after the bulk heads. Any ideas?

The overflow pipes are supported by holes in the plywood, plywood is cut long ways centerline of the holes so one can remove the one half of the plywood thus able to remove pipe for service. Simple design used by many.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/97143584@N02/8983868728/" title="BA Overflow 038 by damauilife, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5443/8983868728_c48d1f2e69.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="BA Overflow 038"></a>
I used unseals at my sump to support the lower section of my bean overflow.

 

[BeanAnimal]

@KindCorals
A few screw holes in the side of the stand will not hurt anything.

@dirtycontour
Yes, I suspect rust is going to become an eventual issue. There is nothing in my fishroom that stays dry. Cleaning and maintenance are a messy affair.

Aquaticecosystems and flexpvc.com and a few other places have PVC pipe stays
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=Pipe-Mounting-Clamps
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/5010/Pipe-Supports

Several vendors also offer fiberglass, stainless, aluminum or plastic unistrut profiles and pipe clamps
http://stores.canmanstan.com/-strse-234/Electrical-grade-fiberglass-unistrut/Detail.bok

In the end, it was just as easy for me to use a holesaw to build a wooden support and use VELCRO style straps epoxied to it.

 

[KindCorals]

@KindCorals
A few screw holes in the side of the stand will not hurt anything.

@dirtycontour
Yes, I suspect rust is going to become an eventual issue. There is nothing in my fishroom that stays dry. Cleaning and maintenance are a messy affair.

Aquaticecosystems and flexpvc.com and a few other places have PVC pipe stays
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=Pipe-Mounting-Clamps
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/5010/Pipe-Supports

Several vendors also offer fiberglass, stainless, aluminum or plastic unistrut profiles and pipe clamps
http://stores.canmanstan.com/-strse-234/Electrical-grade-fiberglass-unistrut/Detail.bok

In the end, it was just as easy for me to use a holesaw to build a wooden support and use VELCRO style straps epoxied to it.

Would you be able to direct me to a couple photos?

 

[BeanAnimal]

http://www.beananimal.com/gallery/75-gallon-in-wall-aquarium-build-gallery.aspx

 

[wesly2006]

Great thread