Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[uncleof6]

Could I add an air valve on the siphon cap to open during start up?

Should not have to do that. Most, if not all starting issues—are due to design flaws with the system you put together.

The major reasons for starting issues are:

1) drain outlets too deep in the sump. They should be <=1" below the water surface. If deeper, the air cannot purge from the siphon line.

2) horizontal runs in the drain lines. They "airlock" trapping air, therefore the air cannot purge from the siphon line.

3) The air vent hose from the open channel is to low in the overflow, tripping the open channel to siphon, before the siphon, therefore the air cannot purge from the siphon line. This tubing inlet should be higher than the dry emergency inlet.

4) Air leaks in the siphon plumbing. It sucks in air, and the siphon cannot be a siphon because there is air in the line...

In short, all the starting issues involve the siphon not starting properly. If you have built/modified the system outside the limits of "as designed" originally, redesign it, and it will work. "As designed" works 100% of the time.

As you have described it, it should work without issues, what have you not told us?

 

[dethnode]

question, i know a drilled tank is better, but I have a second hand tank and have no idea if it is tempered or not, 55gallon, was going to do this with a U-tube type external overflow box self built from acrylic, anyone see any problems with that idea? was thinking i would use a style somewhat like the eshopps pf300 with a skimmer box on the inside of the tank, U-tube to the overflow box on the outside, and then use this set up as my draining system to my sump, silence and 100% fail safe is golden for me.

 

[Mudbeaver]

follower here

follower here

Hi , i've been reading for two days now. So i'm no plumber not one bit, i do know other stuff in the trade but not this. Here's my so call plan.

its rought ,Its not clear, its not finished, its just what i'm attempting to do, and its why i'm gona ask these questions and tell you some of my descisions too.

- First their's already been some changes, but not enought to change the plan already. Second the tank is being manifactured by Miracle aquariums, the central Reef tank and top tank are starfire tanks. The steel structure is $ 2000 to support both tanks and the 70g sump. Both tanks are $ 1200 for a 100 G starfire 3 panels and $ 750 for a 80G starfire 3panels before drilling. Now this is going to be how my drains are going to be looking like , behind a coast to coast Calfo overflow; i used it before and it works beautifully. I wont use the "V" shape like the last time but a "L" shape 1 "1/2 coaster.

SpaFlex all the way down, never hear anything, sleep like a bayby. I think the boxes in the design will only serves to connect the way its done in this tank here. No syphon. 2" each, 2 on the left for the sump and 2 on the right for the closed loop. According to Miracle Aquariums their boxes are 24"X6"X9" one on each side.

My big problem is with the water volumes i simply don't get it even with chart and all. Also look at the plan. The top tank is an 80G refugium split in two one side seahorses, critters and Macro-Algae, the other side Anglers, scorpio fish and Macro-Algae, boths biotopes refigiums. DO I NEED A DRAIN TO MY SUMP or just a connection to my main Reef tank to suppliment with shrimps and occasional pods. After all most refugiums are connected to the sump after the skimmer aren't they?? The return line goes to the top tank, the closed loop stays in the reef tank. The sump is getting 2 drains of 2" from the Reef tank and the Reef tank is getting the flow from the top tank, from a 1.5" i know in the plan says 1/2" but this can be modifyed and thats why i'm posting i don't know......

I have no idea for a return pump i don't know what gph i should have...












The pump for the loop will be a Pan World 50PX-X Magnetic Water Pump (1100gph)

 

[uncleof6]

question, i know a drilled tank is better, but I have a second hand tank and have no idea if it is tempered or not, 55gallon, was going to do this with a U-tube type external overflow box self built from acrylic, anyone see any problems with that idea? was thinking i would use a style somewhat like the eshopps pf300 with a skimmer box on the inside of the tank, U-tube to the overflow box on the outside, and then use this set up as my draining system to my sump, silence and 100% fail safe is golden for me.

FYI Eshopps are not exactly designs I would recommend following, even slightly following--that said:

Any u-tube type arrangement must be able to self-start. That is probably the biggest hurdle to get over in designing one.

With a fail-safe drain system AFTER the u-tubes, you don't have a fail-safe system, because the failure point will be the u-tubes. You can certainly make a u-tube overflow work WAY better by using a siphon system in the external box. A while back, there was a thread concerning an Eshopps overflow, that was (and still is) WAY over-rated. The fix was a herbie in the external box... the proof was in the pudding, and over protests--the OP made the modification, and it worked--and was able to achieve the advertised rating.

Personally, I don't see much sense in putting a bean system in an external box, downline from a u-tube feed.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Mudbeaver:

This thread is dedicated to a specific type of standpipe system and supporting the folks who choose to use it. I would suggest that you create a new thread in the general DIY forum where you will get more interest and better answers regarding your flow questions and choice of overflow method.

 

[Mudbeaver]

Mudbeaver:

This thread is dedicated to a specific type of standpipe system and supporting the folks who choose to use it. I would suggest that you create a new thread in the general DIY forum where you will get more interest and better answers regarding your flow questions and choice of overflow method.

Oh , i didn't know it was for just one type of problem i saw 109 pages and i figure that all questions reguarding overflows where directed here. I'm really in a jam about this particular aspect of the craft, i'm good with the other stuff but this is totally abstract to me. You wouldn't have any ideas by any chance. The manifacturer is after my "A" about the details of the positioning and size of the holes. I got a few of them but the size is what i'm worried and the return pump too. Got a bit over my head litterally with this one. I've put 2" spaflex but i'm reducing t to 1 1/2" for the drain. Its the other one from the biotpes i'm worried about.

 

[darb85]

I did number three uncle 6.:facepalm:

thanks

 

[rayr18]

I have a simple question..Can someone please link the John Guest part used for the 1/4" airline? I have been online looking but can't seem to figure out the exact part.
Thanks

 

[darb85]

Should not have to do that. Most, if not all starting issues—are due to design flaws with the system you put together.

The major reasons for starting issues are:

1) drain outlets too deep in the sump. They should be <=1" below the water surface. If deeper, the air cannot purge from the siphon line.

2) horizontal runs in the drain lines. They "airlock" trapping air, therefore the air cannot purge from the siphon line.

3) The air vent hose from the open channel is to low in the overflow, tripping the open channel to siphon, before the siphon, therefore the air cannot purge from the siphon line. This tubing inlet should be higher than the dry emergency inlet.

4) Air leaks in the siphon plumbing. It sucks in air, and the siphon cannot be a siphon because there is air in the line...

In short, all the starting issues involve the siphon not starting properly. If you have built/modified the system outside the limits of "as designed" originally, redesign it, and it will work. "As designed" works 100% of the time.

As you have described it, it should work without issues, what have you not told us?

I did 1 and 3 apparently, didnt think 2 inches would make a difference cut them and boom everything works. thanks again, and now back to paying attention to details...

 

[uncleof6]

I have a simple question..Can someone please link the John Guest part used for the 1/4" airline? I have been online looking but can't seem to figure out the exact part.
Thanks

http://www.h2odistributors.com/pi010822s.asp

 

[rayr18]

http://www.h2odistributors.com/pi010822s.asp

I thought it was the male adapter..just wasn't sure. I appreciate your help Uncle0f6.

 

[Mudbeaver]

Thank you

Thank you

Thank you for all your help guys you really know how to make new people feel welcome on here, i'll be sure to pass that along to others who have problems. Cheers. If you ever need any help some day you know where to find me....

 

[BeanAnimal]

Mudbeaver,

I kindly pointed out that this thread was dedicated to support of a specific type of overflow and that you were not likely going to get the support (for you in depth questions) you were looking for. It is not that folks don't want to help, it is that the question is off-topic here and we try to keep the already massive thread on-topic.

I will again kindly suggest that you simply post your question in the DIY forum by starting your own thread. You will be sure to get MUCH more dedicated traffic and support than you will by asking here.

 

[dirtycontour]

I apologize in advance as I'm sure this has been covered. My siphon pipe will be 1". I'm now seeing it is recommended to use 1.25" pipe for the open channel. Is this a 1.25" standpipe or just the pipe going to the sump?

Thanks for the awesome thread!

 

[Firochromis]

Hi all, which parameter sers the height of water in the overflow box, the upper point of the turned down elbow of the siphon line? The midline of the Tee of the Open Channel?

 

[jerpa]

Hi all, which parameter sers the height of water in the overflow box, the upper point of the turned down elbow of the siphon line? The midline of the Tee of the Open Channel?

Once running you will adjust the water level in the overflow box with the valve on the siphon channel.

 

[jerpa]

I apologize in advance as I'm sure this has been covered. My siphon pipe will be 1". I'm now seeing it is recommended to use 1.25" pipe for the open channel. Is this a 1.25" standpipe or just the pipe going to the sump?

Thanks for the awesome thread!

That is referring to the pipe running to the sump. 1.5" is best but smaler diameters will work as well. You do narrow the range the overflow will self-adjust to while still maintaining a silent and bubble-free sump.

 

[dirtycontour]

That is referring to the pipe running to the sump. 1.5" is best but smaler diameters will work as well. You do narrow the range the overflow will self-adjust to while still maintaining a silent and bubble-free sump.

Thank you sir

 

[Ciwyn]

So I figured I should possibly move my problem over to this thread since it gets a bit more attention than a problem thread from some random new guy. Thank you all for any suggestions in that thread though.

I have built a coast to coast overflow box with a beananimal drain system. It's a 1.5" drain with a 1" return. I have the system up and running, but somehow I cannot get a full siphon out of the siphon tube. I hear water gurgling down the pipe and it is ejecting bubbles into my sump. The ball valve is adjusted so the water level is about 3/4" of the way up the intake pipes. There is a slight trickle of water coming out the open channel drain. I upgraded my pump to a mag 18 hoping low flow was the issue, but the noise remains. Some people have suggested going down to a 1" drain system, but that would be a whole lot of work to change and the system was designed as a 1.5" system.

It seems like air is entering the siphon pipe somehow, I just cannot figure out where. The cap is screwed on with teflon tape. My thought is possibly air is getting in at the ball valve. I just don't know where or how?

Here is a photo of the system. Since that photo I have changed the siphon tube to all pvc down to the sump. I will be supporting all the tubes so they don't put pressure on the bulkheads. I was just figuring out how to do it. Also I will be adding the flexible tubing to the top of the open channel system for the ultimate safety.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Is it possible that you are getting air around the connection between the internal elbow and bullkhead (the socket connection there)?

Teflon paste for the cap(s) is likely a much better option, as the teflon tape often does not work well with the poorly cast threads on cheap PVC.

Also, if there is air bubbles being formed due to the waterfall action of the weir, they can get sucked in and cuase an incredible amount of noise.