Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Ok my 1" bulkhead od measures 1.67" or 42.4mm Not sure if that's what you want or not.
Doug
Doug
Bump :thumbsup:
Thank you, I would rather hard plumb this but I will run into my closed loop plumbing if I did.
uncleof6
Active member
Easy solution, the cl is not going to do you much good, and will not replace the need for power heads. Just the way it is.
Circulation needs to be top to bottom, and bottom to top. Middle to bottom just doesn't get it done. Closed loops are way overrated, and are not dynamic enough.
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uncleof6
Active member
Flow is limited by the bulkhead size, hence 3/4". 1" pipe will not improve performance by much. 3/4" is too small for practical application with a marine system.
In terms of this drain system, it uses three holes. 4 holes just complicates the process. Best to stick with three as designed.
Again thank you for the replies. The plumbing as you see it is just the basics. The two returns you see at the bottom of the tank will feed a small network of outlets plumbed into some PVC framework. That will then be hidden by two "Rock Islands". The overflow I am planing is a ctc to provide total surface skimming. I won't say that i won't need a power head or something else. Just saying there is more in the works than what you see. :hammer:
uncleof6
Active member
Friction loss city, and will be no where near as efficient as a couple well placed power heads. (The more complicated the plumbing, the bigger the pump you need, and the more ticked off you get when you still have dead spots in the tank.) I have done dye test on some pretty elaborate closed loops, and a couple power heads beat the "" out of them.
:hammer:But it is not my tank. Best wishes.
Thanks for the response!
I assume that when you say that the siphon pipe need to be the smallest you refer to the actual opening at the valve (in my case the gate valve) and not necessarily the pipe diameter? Why is it that the open channel need to be the biggest? If I understood it correctly i should only have a little trickle of water down that one?
The siphon drain must be the smallest pipe size in the system in order to maintain the failsafe nature of the overflow. Having a larger siphon pipe creates the potential for a situation where the siphon line can drain more than the open channel or emergency. Should the siphon line become clogged, it could flood.
The open channel doesnt take a lot of flow, during normal operation, but it is an air/water drain and the only way for it to be quiet is for the water to sheet down the walls of the pipe. This limits the flow rate greatly and a larger pipe gives a larger window under which the overflow will operate silently.
I am by no means an expert....which is why I'm going to attempt this with 3/4" plumbing...ha! Maybe someone has tried this and it didn't work, but I just haven't had the time to read through all 200+ pages of this thread.
My tank is drilled with 6 holes that each accommodate a 3/4" bulkhead. I plan to use three for this system and three for returns. I'm hoping I can get 800-1000 GPH through this setup which is turning my tank about 4X-5X and hour. I'll be using a turf scrubber and refugium in my sump so I don't want to run much more than that through there. I'll use power heads to get the flow in the display up where it needs to be.
I'm a few weeks away from getting it going, but I'll let you know how it works. Wish me luck!
uncleof6
Active member
Reading through all 200+ pages would most likely save you some time and energy in the end...this thread is a must read for those wishing to implement this system.
Depending on the length of the drop, you are not likely, to get 1000 gph through a 3/4" bulkhead. At a normal drop of ~ 24", the max theoretical flow rate is ~ 900 gph. Real world, will be somewhat less. 3/4" bulkheads/plumbing are too small for this size tank.
I won't go into the relative merits of the methodology you are choosing to utilize, however, I will state that sump methodologies are flow rate independant, as dwell time is not a factor. I will say that flow rates double what you are planning, along with (not added to) circulation in the tank itself, are more appropriate for marine systems.
Hi RC, first post here.
First things first, my experience at reef keeping so far is pretty short, and hasn't been very successful. I ran a 15g with a 10g sump, with very minimal equipment (too minimal) and my complete lack of first-hand knowledge in the hobby led me to design a very inefficient system (both in terms of filtration and maintenance) that died a quick death once I started school - 35 yo and just started school again in January, which takes up roughly 60 hours of my time weekly.
I learned a lot from my mistakes though, and I want to use my summer off to start working on a more efficient system. I could go on and on about what I have planned, but most of it is not relevant to this thread. My main question at this point is:
Do you recommend using the BeanAnimal overflow design for a 30g breeder (36”x16”x12”) with 20g long sump? I skimmed through a large portion of the thread, and everything I read so far relates to 50g and up DTs.
If using this design is recommended for a system this small, here’s a few follow-up questions…
Should I downsize the pipes to ¾”?
Does it defeat the purpose of a coast to coast overflow to build one on the side of the tank, instead of the back? And is this siphon design well suited for a side coast to coast?
Thanks in advance!
First things first, my experience at reef keeping so far is pretty short, and hasn't been very successful. I ran a 15g with a 10g sump, with very minimal equipment (too minimal) and my complete lack of first-hand knowledge in the hobby led me to design a very inefficient system (both in terms of filtration and maintenance) that died a quick death once I started school - 35 yo and just started school again in January, which takes up roughly 60 hours of my time weekly.
I learned a lot from my mistakes though, and I want to use my summer off to start working on a more efficient system. I could go on and on about what I have planned, but most of it is not relevant to this thread. My main question at this point is:
Do you recommend using the BeanAnimal overflow design for a 30g breeder (36”x16”x12”) with 20g long sump? I skimmed through a large portion of the thread, and everything I read so far relates to 50g and up DTs.
If using this design is recommended for a system this small, here’s a few follow-up questions…
Should I downsize the pipes to ¾”?
Does it defeat the purpose of a coast to coast overflow to build one on the side of the tank, instead of the back? And is this siphon design well suited for a side coast to coast?
Thanks in advance!
uncleof6
Active member
Welcome to RC.
First, perhaps it would help if you understood that tanks under 40 gallons are not a good starting point for this hobby. Things change very fast, (bad things) and small tanks take that change harder than larger tanks. It is a question of stability; smaller tanks have always been considered "advanced level." The only thing that has changed with that, is the advent of the internet, however, they should still be considered "advanced level."
40 breeder is an excellent starter tank, and for many marine critters it is the smallest tank they can be kept in. 60 gallon tank is a better starting point. The 40 has been considered, since I first entered into the hobby, the smallest practical tank for marine systems. Picos and Nanos being a unique niche within the hobby.
In terms of the drain system, this design is suitable from pico sized tanks all the way up to the monster 500, 1000, and beyond sized tanks. It is adaptable using pipe size changes. At a minimum, 1" is the smallest pipe you should use. Plug risk is just one reason smaller is not a good idea. 1" pipe will take you up into tanks of ~ 120 gallons, with larger tanks, the pipe size really needs to increase. These sizes are for siphon systems only, and have no correlation with "Durso" or other "open channel" drain systems.
As far as end vs back, it is a question of efficiency. The longer the "weir" (or overflow) the more efficient the surface skimming, and in most cases, the quieter the system will be. Surface skimming is the main function of an overflow, therefore this should figure heavily in what you decide to do.
In terms of function both work, with this system.
markywmson
New member
I am having (most likely not) a unique problem. I built the system the way it was designed (I thought) and was getting air trapped in the full-siphon tube. I found that I had the pipe end submerged too deeply and that was causing it. Fixed that tonight (raised it so it's ~1" below water level in sump). Wow, the flow through the system is night and day. I could only have my pump (Speedwave DC5000) turned up halfway. Now I have it cranked all the way up! Therein lies my problem... even at full flow, my drain is siphoning TOO much and I'm getting all kinds of gurgling (ie, the water isn't going up the elbow at all). I've completely closed off the open-channel (the one with the airline on it) and my single drain is able to do more than my pump can.
Is there a solution to this? I'm using 1" street elbows inside the weir. A bushing in there? Seems like that wouldn't be a good idea. Hence why I'm asking here before I make a mistake.
Obviously buying the DC10000 would solve this... but I don't have that $$$.
Thanks for any help!
-mark
Is there a solution to this? I'm using 1" street elbows inside the weir. A bushing in there? Seems like that wouldn't be a good idea. Hence why I'm asking here before I make a mistake.
Obviously buying the DC10000 would solve this... but I don't have that $$$.
Thanks for any help!
-mark
