Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[saf1]

Shopping list. Is there a single source, online, that has all of the correct parts to plumb a Bean Animal overflow? I just got back from my local hardware store and they had some pieces and pvc pipes but not all of it.

My tank is being completed this week and I'd like to order the plumbing parts and bulk heads while it is in transit. I had the external overflow set up to be 12" height with 3 x 1.5" bulkheads. I figured it may be best to ask if any of you found the items on one place rather than buying here and there.

Thanks.

 

[uncleof6]

Shopping list. Is there a single source, online, that has all of the correct parts to plumb a Bean Animal overflow? I just got back from my local hardware store and they had some pieces and pvc pipes but not all of it.

My tank is being completed this week and I'd like to order the plumbing parts and bulk heads while it is in transit. I had the external overflow set up to be 12" height with 3 x 1.5" bulkheads. I figured it may be best to ask if any of you found the items on one place rather than buying here and there.

Thanks.

An irrigation supply would be your best bet for a one stop solution... beyond that it could be tough because Home Depot and other big box stores sell what is popular, not what you need...

 

[saf1]

An irrigation supply would be your best bet for a one stop solution... beyond that it could be tough because Home Depot and other big box stores sell what is popular, not what you need...

Great idea. Didn't think of that.

The sanitary-tee of all things was proving difficult. Also quality true-union ball valves. For some reason I didn't think they had a large variance of price but they sure do. So I was looking for middle ground on quality/price point.

Thanks again for the idea, will take a look at what I have near by.

Edit: Ok, change of plans after reviewing Bean's diagrams. My bulkhead(s) are on the bottom of the overflow and it would appear that his image / design is coming in from the side. I was using the diagram to order parts and I just caught this. I think I'm going to wait to order overflow parts until the tank actually arrives to be safe. What a goof on my part. My overflow is box goes like:

1" bulkhead outer left
1.5" bulkhead middle left
1.5" bulkhead middle
1.5" bulkhead middle right
1" bulkhead outer right

Also going to re-read the thread. I know people have them coming up from the bottom but I am not seeing how to manage the space. Especially when the piping is 1.5".

 

[saf1]

Can't edit my post above, but is there any reason why I can't move the sanitary tee inside the overflow? Space permitting of course and height. Looking at the diagrams it seems like this would more or less work the same and follow the design. Elbow would be straight shot to tee. Vertical NPT slip adaptor, cap, and John Guest fitting should look the same. PVC pipe, True Union ball valve below.

I will still wait to receive the tank before I order anything just to make sure proper fitting and understand a bit more how water level is managed inside. That seems to be a crucial piece in the design.

 

[uncleof6]

Can't edit my post above, but is there any reason why I can't move the sanitary tee inside the overflow? Space permitting of course and height. Looking at the diagrams it seems like this would more or less work the same and follow the design. Elbow would be straight shot to tee. Vertical NPT slip adaptor, cap, and John Guest fitting should look the same. PVC pipe, True Union ball valve below.

I will still wait to receive the tank before I order anything just to make sure proper fitting and understand a bit more how water level is managed inside. That seems to be a crucial piece in the design.

Yeah, I would imagine so...

 

[saf1]

Great diagram, thanks. Not sure why I was making it seem more difficult than it should have been.

 

[Elricsfate]

I apologize in advance because I posted this question elsewhere.

The soon to be released Vertex Shadow overflow appears to us a design very similar to this, except the pipes are at different heights, and there does not appear to be any air line or caps. They use two propriety U shaped fittings which simply rest below the water level.

I am wondering if this will provide the same safe and quiet operation that Bean Animal overflow is designed to provide.

Sorry for the simple questions. I'm not a plumber.

Thanks in advance

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Do you mean Synergy Reef? Theirs is a internal/external variant of the BA system...I'm sure there is an airline, or maybe just a hole on the OC pipe for air (this works also BTW, you don't "need" a JG fitting and an airline...)

It works almost exactly the same.

 

[Mishri]

yeah on the synergy reef shadow overflow you can see a picture, there is a hole in the top of each of the 2 u pipes. It's safe/silent, works just like the bean animal style.

 

[Elricsfate]

Thank you.

Yes, I did in fact mean the Synergy Reef Shadow. Sorry, I've been looking at a lot of sites lately, as I am building my first tank intended to (eventually) hold corals.

 

[Elricsfate]

So, should both holes be above the water level? It seems like (if my understanding is correct) that the BA uses one full siphon with an inlet below the water surface, and one partial siphon with an airline above the water surface.

This setup has a hole in both pipes. Should one have the hole below the surface and the other be slightly above it?

Sorry for the beginner questions...

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

What setup are you referring to? The siphon line never has a hole, or shouldn't (IMO)...

Technically in the raw form, the siphon and OC pipes can be at exactly the same level. What makes them function differently is the airline/hole

So in an internal/external pass-through setup, usually what I do is have the siphon as low as possible and the OC a bit higher, when it balances out the 180 "U" pipe for the siphon can be out of the water at the top, and if the OC is at the same level, same - which will make it operate differently, has to do with flow dynamics.

You can actually take an OC pipe in an external box with a 180 "U" bend pipe and a JG fitting and airline and submerge it completely and as long as the airline end isn't occluded it will not siphon. It might close off and start to gurgle, and might flush out the box, but it won't steady-state, generally. That's where height adjustment comes into play

 

[Elricsfate]

I'm referring to the Ghost overflow. As was noted above, both pipes have a hole in the top of the bend, from the manufacturer. In their directions the main pipe is set at one height, the OC pipe is one inch higher, and the emergency is several inches higher.

So I'm assuming that you actually do install an air line in the OC bend, or that it naturally sits slightly above the water level.

Again, I'm not a plumber or a fluid dynamics guy. So some of this is (I'm sure) rather simple, but not entirely clear to me.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

In that suggested setup, the siphon line would be fully under (thus, hole covered) and the OC hole would stick up above the water line, since there is a level difference.

Though my feeling is the siphon line should never have a hole. If you had a scenario where the pump flow dropped and the siphon line drew the box down a bit, you woudn't want the fact that the top of the siphon line becoming exposed to air to break the siphon. Not at all IMO. There is just no reason for the siphon line to have a hole. Period. So I'm gonna check with Rick on that one

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I stand corrected, after a bunch of testing apparently the hole in the siphon line solves some issues with airlocking on startup on certain plumbing configs and doesn't cause any functionality issues.

But for a DIYer recommendation, I wouldn't go there yet

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

You brought my diagram to life!!

 

[Elricsfate]

Thank you all for your kind assistance. The reason for the questions is that I actually ordered the 20 in Synergy overflow, which does not come with the U flow connectors. I intended to copy the Shadow's setup in the 20 in, and needed to understand how it should be done.

I truly appreciate your help. This is what makes this hobby great! Hopefully somewhere down the road I'll be one of the "old salts" handing out advice and answering questions.

 

[saf1]

Didn't think about this until today but quick question (more than likely a dumb one).

On a peninsula style build with the Bean Animal overflow on the side what does that do to water movement by wave makers, return, or other flow devices in the tank? Or maybe it doesn't matter and only affects the surface layer?

My return bulkhead entry point is on the overflow so I was thinking it would push / return against the incoming flow and might cause issues. Which then lead me on my conundrum has to what would be ideal and placement I'm thinking the surface is the only thing impacted and what happens lower doesn't matter and will see the effects of wave patterns if present.

 

[uncleof6]

Didn't think about this until today but quick question (more than likely a dumb one).

On a peninsula style build with the Bean Animal overflow on the side what does that do to water movement by wave makers, return, or other flow devices in the tank? Or maybe it doesn't matter and only affects the surface layer?

My return bulkhead entry point is on the overflow so I was thinking it would push / return against the incoming flow and might cause issues. Which then lead me on my conundrum has to what would be ideal and placement I'm thinking the surface is the only thing impacted and what happens lower doesn't matter and will see the effects of wave patterns if present.

Well, technically you are correct. However, if the return flow is angled down and away from the overflow end it should be alright. The biggest problem is pulling water the length of the tank. (rather than the width as it would in a more "traditional" setup.) As far as under the surface, that matters too. You need to bring water up from the bottom to the top, out the overflow, then back into the tank towards the bottom (not really) to force water up to the surface. This is what powerheads are for, to create a well mixed circular flow pattern.

 

[saf1]

Well, technically you are correct. However, if the return flow is angled down and away from the overflow end it should be alright. The biggest problem is pulling water the length of the tank. (rather than the width as it would in a more "traditional" setup.) As far as under the surface, that matters too. You need to bring water up from the bottom to the top, out the overflow, then back into the tank towards the bottom (not really) to force water up to the surface. This is what powerheads are for, to create a well mixed circular flow pattern.

The original design was going to use the full width and back tank but then we thought maybe we would notch the and have it visible from the other side. I'm not sure if I want to do that now but the option is there I guess.

Thank you for the information. I'll have to double check once it arrives to see if I can plumb it properly has you describe. I believe I can. If not I'm sure there are other options. I don't think I need an crazy abundance of flow though because I mainly keep soft and LPS corals. There may be one or two for a reef crest of SPS such as a birds nest or something similar. But your note on bringing up water from the bottom is what I need to make sure of.

Thanks again. Have a good day.