BreadmanMike
New member
734, but I don't want this to get OT.....
sorry!
jglackin,
Keep on working, millions on welfare depend on you.
Sorry, Chicago merchants
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734, but I don't want this to get OT.....
sorry!
jglackin,
Keep on working, millions on welfare depend on you.
Kmiec123
Actual CMAS Member
Whenever we point our finger at somebody or something...We have three fingers pointing back at ourselves....Try it!
We are consumers and we control everything personally. We have the choice...P{problem is not us consumers are becoming investors that care more about our 401k's than our civic morals. as long as my mutual funds go up walmart can so what they want is the general consensus. And ever since politics became a full-time job for people instead of the local blacksmith running for a voluntary position much money is involves so our local Unions don't have the funds to lobby for laws to protect workers as the multinational corporations spend to get you to belive there is no need for new laws because they will take care of it for you. Company and CEOs' responsibility is to the stocks price, not employees. If they don't investors and mutual funds pull there money and go elsewhere.
I don't see how corporations are granted fights through federal courts...the're not people....But what do I know.
Babble done.
Carl
We are consumers and we control everything personally. We have the choice...P{problem is not us consumers are becoming investors that care more about our 401k's than our civic morals. as long as my mutual funds go up walmart can so what they want is the general consensus. And ever since politics became a full-time job for people instead of the local blacksmith running for a voluntary position much money is involves so our local Unions don't have the funds to lobby for laws to protect workers as the multinational corporations spend to get you to belive there is no need for new laws because they will take care of it for you. Company and CEOs' responsibility is to the stocks price, not employees. If they don't investors and mutual funds pull there money and go elsewhere.
I don't see how corporations are granted fights through federal courts...the're not people....But what do I know.
Babble done.
Carl
FiReBReTHa
Master Blaster!
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12248375#post12248375 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BreadmanMike
Keep on working, millions on welfare depend on you.
Work Hard!
So others dont have to!
JNye
Moved On Up
I agree with Jim and what he said was not racist, welfare exists, people on welfare exist, and its a problem in this country. Him pointing that out is not racist. The fact that you pointed it out as a racist manifestation reflectes badly on you IMO. I also agree with you that racism is a huge problem in this country. I'm out.
jglackin
New member
Of course, I am out until I am called a racist. Who brought race into this?
Why is it that any time anyone tries to have a discussion about the social problems facing this country, if you disagree with a liberal, you get labeled a racist, a misogynist, a hater, etc? Can't you simply argue on the merits without resorting to the #1 retort in the liberal playbook? It's insulting and reveals more about how the liberal has no logical argument for where they stand. If you can't discuss the facts, you must resort to race baiting?
p.s. My ex sister-in-law is on welfare, she weighs over 350 pounds. Guess what? Her daughter, my niece, is well over 300 pounds, and a single mother on welfare. The draw of the system and the trap of the cycle is color blind.
Ok Ok Ok .... everyone needs to take a breath.
First of all - this appears not to be a liberal/conservative argument but more of a libertarian/socialism argument. In a capitalist society some people earn more than others. Some contribute to the government / some withdraw from it. There is an (often considered imaginary) group called "the middle class" that often seems to feel they bear the brunt of both sides. I lived in Canada for some years where by the time all was said and done you were giving half your gross income to the government. There was still abject poverty and wanton excess.
jglackin - I'll be honest. I expected better of you. If you choose to shop outside the city to avoid the sales tax you are not hurting the government you are so frustrated with, but the merchants who we all depend on to keep Chicago from turning into Detroit. You have traveled enough to know that when money flees from an area - the area spirals down the drain. You are right in that Chicago is not going about its budget problems the right way from any perspective.
Ostrow, you are on the money regarding corporate voices vs the voices of the disenfranchised, Chicago and Cook County have slid into some very regressive tax systems. These take the money from those who can least afford it and also take the least money. However I am surprised that you felt the need to drop a race card when it wasn't warranted. Government welfare recipients are predominantly white in this nation. Racism IS a very real problem in this nation but that is not what jglackin's rant is about.
Unions grew because governments refused to protect workers - safe working conditions and child labor is what spawned the modern union, the government could have cared less at the time - Now, have unions gone beyond their useful purpose now that OSHA, IDOL, etc (and lawyers) exist? - that is a different argument entirely.
We are in a recession. Government spending will increase during these cycles. China holds the lions share of our foreign currency and is sucking up oil at a pace that puts us to shame. Our unemployment figures are misleading since every month more people give up looking for work and they are no longer counted as unemployed. Most European countries look at able bodies, not just active seekers.
Ok - I'm boring everyone by this point and I have to go look in on my sleeping children. I am very proud to live in a country where such a thread can even exist on a fish board and none of us have to worry about it landing us in prison.
Aiko, I like shiny too.
First of all - this appears not to be a liberal/conservative argument but more of a libertarian/socialism argument. In a capitalist society some people earn more than others. Some contribute to the government / some withdraw from it. There is an (often considered imaginary) group called "the middle class" that often seems to feel they bear the brunt of both sides. I lived in Canada for some years where by the time all was said and done you were giving half your gross income to the government. There was still abject poverty and wanton excess.
jglackin - I'll be honest. I expected better of you. If you choose to shop outside the city to avoid the sales tax you are not hurting the government you are so frustrated with, but the merchants who we all depend on to keep Chicago from turning into Detroit. You have traveled enough to know that when money flees from an area - the area spirals down the drain. You are right in that Chicago is not going about its budget problems the right way from any perspective.
Ostrow, you are on the money regarding corporate voices vs the voices of the disenfranchised, Chicago and Cook County have slid into some very regressive tax systems. These take the money from those who can least afford it and also take the least money. However I am surprised that you felt the need to drop a race card when it wasn't warranted. Government welfare recipients are predominantly white in this nation. Racism IS a very real problem in this nation but that is not what jglackin's rant is about.
Unions grew because governments refused to protect workers - safe working conditions and child labor is what spawned the modern union, the government could have cared less at the time - Now, have unions gone beyond their useful purpose now that OSHA, IDOL, etc (and lawyers) exist? - that is a different argument entirely.
We are in a recession. Government spending will increase during these cycles. China holds the lions share of our foreign currency and is sucking up oil at a pace that puts us to shame. Our unemployment figures are misleading since every month more people give up looking for work and they are no longer counted as unemployed. Most European countries look at able bodies, not just active seekers.
Ok - I'm boring everyone by this point and I have to go look in on my sleeping children. I am very proud to live in a country where such a thread can even exist on a fish board and none of us have to worry about it landing us in prison.
Aiko, I like shiny too.
mcliffy2
New member
Guys, lets keep these talks off the boards...these things are better in person. Its too easy for words on a page to take on a life of their own. I have some different views from Jim, but have also have had some very good conversations on these topics with him in person. There are good points to be made on both sides, and if there was an easy answer, then these topics wouldn't exist in the first place.
I do feel the need to stick up for Jim and vouch for the fact there isn't a racist bone in his body.
I do feel the need to stick up for Jim and vouch for the fact there isn't a racist bone in his body.
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